_\ _\ ...MORTARS, MORTARS, MORTARS..........._\ _\

[ObeerBongKenobi]

Is there a poll option here? Can we agree to disagree on the latest changes to emplacements starting out empty? Even more specifically, how crippled and unenjoyable mortars have become due to their clunkiness, cumbersome and slow reload times. I was talking to a lot of players lately about it and we all seem to agree the mortars take way too long to load. We're talking years and years of playing a particular way and you want to change it all of a sudden? Yes you can fire them in 5 consecutive bursts but to get to those 5 rounds you need wait 30 seconds to load them. by the time you hit your target over a minute has gone by and the target is no longer there. MGDave called me for mortars on a fob being built. Normally it would take 20 seconds for me to calibrate the mortar and fire and hit the target. He said we didn't hit the target until over a minute passed since his request. By the that time the fob was already up, half the team spawned and were already on the flag.
I am not slow at mortars.,Say I want to fire one round quickly to test distance. The mortar has to finish loading all the rounds and I cannot fire one round and stop. Its like running your dishwasher and you forget one dish so you can't open the door and add the dish in the middle of the cycle. I need to wait for the dishwasher to complete. I'm not going to wash one dish. So now its wasting ammo. Just go back to the way it used to be. I'm begging you. If the target is good (getting points) the mortar is now empty. that's going to be another 30 seconds to reload the mortars even if people are constantly throwing bags at you.

I was playing Grozny yesterday and as the sl i was doing ammo runs. The truck has to wait so long for 2 crates to fill now by the time I get back to the pits the 2 crates I previously dropped were completely used. Normally we stack crates to load faster. Do you see the problem here? Now the crates are gone and we are back to 2. so the pits aren't filling any faster by combining crates and they are firing slower and its taking longer to fill the logi. The whole system is sluggish and affects the gameplay and the fun. People want to use the logi to build fobs. I used to say, "sure! I have 2 crates for my mortars and I can rebuild...no problem use the logi, as long as I have 2 crates that will last me the whole round" now I can't do that and logis are harder and harder to use for the round. If you are going to make the mortars slower and make tows and AA completely dependent on ammo why on earth would devs make the repair bay reload time longer?!! it should be the opposite. The the reload from the repair bay should be faster to compensate for the slower mortars and dependency of constant crates. Or have more Logi trucks spawn at the start of the round so we can get the mortars going and have fobs. I feel like gameplay as a whole when it comes to superfobs (mortars, tow, AA, etc)has gotten so slow and cumbersome that I don't feel like bothering with it anymore. I probably play PR about 1/4 of the time since the last update and mostly just do infantry which is not my strongpoint. Its not enjoyable. Devs took the one thing me and a lot of other players get any enjoyment from doing these days and ruined it. (There aren't many)
I'm sorry to complain and I know the devs work hard and a lot of time goes into what you do and from my experience they rarely go back after an update but this is one time I feel like it might be in your best interest. It's affecting gameplay and affecting the fun.

[EDIT]
if they ditched the 5 round burst bs and just went to the old way rate of fire and made the trucks have to spend less time at the repair bays to reload I would be happy.[\EDIT]

Yours truly,
DR.WANKENSTEIN

[bad_nade]

If the choices are inifite ammo by demolishing and rebuilding or slow reload times, I will take slow reload times any day.

[ObeerBongKenobi]

If the choices are inifite ammo by demolishing and rebuilding or slow reload times, I will take slow reload times any day.

clueless_noob indeed

user infracted for flaming other users - /Mod

[Chuva_RD]

I was playing Grozny yesterday

pls give tracker link

[MOSES!!]

pls give tracker link

https://br.hogclangaming.com/tracker_20 ... _32.PRdemo

[axytho]

I completely agree that the increased resupply times of trucks/technicals are not conductive to gameplay.

This just adds another layer of waiting to building fobs.

If you want to make building fobs and resupplying mortars more difficult, reduce the top speed of logis.

Please don't add waiting time to activities where there is absolutely no risk of dying whatsoever.

[bad_nade]

It has been said many times that deployable assets were changed to spawn without ammo due to the infinite ammo issue. Because only some squad leaders knew about this "feature" and many of those exploited it, while others were totally ignorant about it, it gave opportunistic SLs an unfair advantage.

Being on the wrong side of that advantage is not fun. I also hate it when people dump perfectly good ammo supply vehicles on the field, so that's why I like this change.

There is another somewhat similar feature still in the game. On maps where there is logistic MT-LB or some other semi-light vehicle that is not considered claimable but requires one crewman kit, you can get infinite ammo by requesting rifleman kits off the vehicle.

I'm quite sure DEVs are contemplating improving the resupply system but before making new changes we must wait and see if people start behaving differently.

[Brotherscompany]

Honestly l feel like the longer reload in Logis is just a atrocious change, barely anyone wanted to go back and re arm and be away from the fun, now you are just there waiting and waiting which is even worse if you need those crates ASAP which is usually the case if you are reloading them...

About the mortars themselves, lm honestly split if l like them or not.

The barrage is like semi OP, but at the same time it feels great to know l have 1minute or so of being 100% safe that l wont be hit, this sucks for Mortars but its good for INF. I always felt frustrated how impactful they were not sure what DEVs intend for the Mortar effectiveness because they do 100% ruin some maps like Qwai and others 2Km

About them taking longer, holly damn yes 100% they dont feel good at alland take way too long to reload. If you have to revert the 5 salvos to have the mortars like they were before ld say go for it. You are affecting such a niche part of the community that enjoys doing Mortars, l don't usually run them nor l belong to that section but yeh

[Mats391]

The update changed quite a lot of things at once, so harsh reactions are understandable. Every change we did was targeted at certain problems we saw with mortars.

1. Spawning empty
This one should be obvious. It was borderline exploit that was even banned in some PR tournaments and clan wars. In the past we already did changes to discourage such as very long time to shovel mortar pits. These changes could be rolled back now that we have a better solution.

2. Increased supply demand
Mortars were even without exploiting the rebuild very cheap to operate. With little crates you could shoot a lot which even allowed firing at random location where you assume enemies. The increased supply demand was aimed at making mortars (and other emplacements) more resource hungry and increase demand for supplies across the game.

3. Increased supply rearm time
As others have mentioned mortars on 2km maps can dominate the entire map. One of the reasons for that is that they can stick close to friendly main and still engage most of the map. The short supply distances also defeated the above changes to supply demand. As such rearm time of trucks was increased to slow down re-supplying even on short distances.

4. Fire-mission approach
With the old mortars you could shoot constantly without any downtime. This allowed you to shoot at positions until everything was dead-dead. It also allowed you to quickly changes targets. That meant mortars could shoot at assumed enemy positions (e.g. usual FOB places, old markers on map) and still be ready for any request from your infantry. The fire-mission approach makes both these things harder and increases demand for cooperation with infantry directing your mortars. As others have pointed out, a well coordinated mortar strike can now be way more deadly than before. You can still use mortars the old way as you can reload after every shell, but then you degrade your overall rate of fire for freedom to switch targets quickly. You can also use this for your first ranging round. By the time the shell impacts, you will have reloaded and can send the full 5 rounds onto target.


From what I experience in game, the changes work as intended. Mortars used together with infantry are deadly and can still turn games around, but the increased demand for supply and personnel make this deadliness come at a cost. The issue of certain 2km maps being dominated by mortars is still present and we will keep looking into ways of solving it.

[Coalz101]

I see no reason to argue honestly, mortars are way more powerful now than before in my opinion.
Yes you can't shoot right away from being built (That's a good nerf paired with the current fire rate) but that's a minor problem, you have 2 mortar pits, quit one manning both of them by yourselves. Have 1 mortar shooting while the other reloads, you'll get like 15-20 rounds landing in just a minute with a well organized squad compared to the old way!

People only complain when its their primary job (For wank in this case mortars) that gets changed and its understandable but consider that many other emplacements are affected by this change. TOWs now are easier to deal with for assets, before you'll be dead by a tow that's actively be dug which is non sense.
Just play the game some more; try a new tactic, and you'll get use to the changes.

[axytho]

--snip--

Ok, I understand the change to resupply now (thanks for explaining). Making logis slow would indeed not do anything to fix mortars which are right next to main.

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

If the choices are inifite ammo by demolishing and rebuilding or slow reload times, I will take slow reload times any day.

So was this the issue that prompted all these changes?

Its so easily solved by just not allowing the demolishing of any assets (except maybe barbed wire) unless it´s the whole FOB with all assets.

Or just ban the little ***** who do it.

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

The update changed quite a lot of things at once, so harsh reactions are understandable. Every change we did was targeted at certain problems we saw with mortars.

1. Spawning empty
This one should be obvious. It was borderline exploit that was even banned in some PR tournaments and clan wars. In the past we already did changes to discourage such as very long time to shovel mortar pits. These changes could be rolled back now that we have a better solution.

2. Increased supply demand
Mortars were even without exploiting the rebuild very cheap to operate. With little crates you could shoot a lot which even allowed firing at random location where you assume enemies. The increased supply demand was aimed at making mortars (and other emplacements) more resource hungry and increase demand for supplies across the game.

3. Increased supply rearm time
As others have mentioned mortars on 2km maps can dominate the entire map. One of the reasons for that is that they can stick close to friendly main and still engage most of the map. The short supply distances also defeated the above changes to supply demand. As such rearm time of trucks was increased to slow down re-supplying even on short distances.

4. Fire-mission approach
With the old mortars you could shoot constantly without any downtime. This allowed you to shoot at positions until everything was dead-dead. It also allowed you to quickly changes targets. That meant mortars could shoot at assumed enemy positions (e.g. usual FOB places, old markers on map) and still be ready for any request from your infantry. The fire-mission approach makes both these things harder and increases demand for cooperation with infantry directing your mortars. As others have pointed out, a well coordinated mortar strike can now be way more deadly than before. You can still use mortars the old way as you can reload after every shell, but then you degrade your overall rate of fire for freedom to switch targets quickly. You can also use this for your first ranging round. By the time the shell impacts, you will have reloaded and can send the full 5 rounds onto target.


From what I experience in game, the changes work as intended. Mortars used together with infantry are deadly and can still turn games around, but the increased demand for supply and personnel make this deadliness come at a cost. The issue of certain 2km maps being dominated by mortars is still present and we will keep looking into ways of solving it.

Why didn´t you just disable the removal/demolishing of built assets? Go as far as make them immune to friendly fire. Ive played the game for years, never noticed anyone doing this in normal games. I dont do mortar squads but if it was a thing for them, again they are usually off the beaten path. Just disable demolishing of assets without demolishing the FOB. If youre having a tournament, enforce the rules.

[InfantryGamer42]

Why didn´t you just disable the removal/demolishing of built assets?

Because there are legit reasons for squad leader to remove (for example ATGM) asset and deploy it somewhere else.

Ive played the game for years, never noticed anyone doing this in normal games.

This was literarily most normal strategy in pub games. Many people did it, as it had clear advantage to normal ammo resupply. It is great that it got removed from game.

[MOSES!!]

Because there are legit reasons for squad leader to remove (for example ATGM) asset and deploy it somewhere else.



This was literarily most normal strategy in pub games. Many people did it, as it had clear advantage to normal ammo resupply. It is great that it got removed from game.

the squadmates gotta work together with the sl to maintaining and resupplying the mortars tows and hmgs sl shouldn't redeploy them after it runs out of ammo they get supply crates to rearm for a reason

[Stolt_Yugoslav]

Because there are legit reasons for squad leader to remove (for example ATGM) asset and deploy it somewhere else.



This was literarily most normal strategy in pub games. Many people did it, as it had clear advantage to normal ammo resupply. It is great that it got removed from game.

Maybe in your little tryhard private-party closed squads. But Ive been in plenty of those over the years too. I Literally have never had anyone do this or ask me to do this just to re-supply ToWs, Machineguns or anything else except Mortars. I can´t say anything about mortars since Ive perhaps used them 2 times in my lfe.

For most part it takes less time to drop a few ammo packs than it takes to rebuild the asset. I can see weird ***, tryhards shooting ToWs, destroying them, reshooting them as they are being bult, etc. But I have yet to really face this. Maybe it´s happened some rare time and I´ve just forgotten about it. But it certainly wasn´t an issue. The below suggestion or a timer would/could deal with this.

If this indeed was a problem (esp for Mortars???), then the solution lay in dealing with the arbitrary, exploitative "redeployment" of buildable assets. Not completely screwing with the meta of it thats been in play for a decade.


You could literally have made a check that says you can only re-deploy the asset if it has X-ammo. Or at least I imagiine that´s not hardcoded. That would force any would-be exploiter to refill it first, while keeping the use of those extremely few times where someone completely shovels an asset and then wants to re-deploy it two meters in an other direction without re-deploying the FOB.

[InfantryGamer42]

the squadmates gotta work together with the sl to maintaining and resupplying the mortars tows and hmgs sl shouldn't redeploy them after it runs out of ammo they get supply crates to rearm for a reason

Advantage of above strategy came from simple fact. For same time you took to run towards crate, rearm ammo, run back and drop it, you could (with smaller or same manpower) remove and deploy mortars for de facto full ammo reload. As extra bonus, you did not need to constantly resupply FOB with new crates, as beginning two crates were enough to sustain you during one game.

This in practice meant that mortar squad which was exploiting in game mechanics was more effective then mortar squad with full coordination, as it was able to do more fire mission with shorter downtime. As exploit was clearly better (and no, admins babysitting mortars and banning people is not solution), DEVs did this last change.

[InfantryGamer42]

Maybe in your little tryhard private-party closed squads.

Maybe instead of passive aggressive posting here, maybe calm down before you write something? I pretty much never did private party closed squads, so your comment really comes out as childish at best.

But Ive been in plenty of those over the years too.

How you manage to not learn about exploit is honestly completely your personal issue. Considering that I did mortars maybe 5 times in my life (1 after this change) and pretty much got asked every time to do exploit by squad members (beginners or vets) I am really impressed how you managed that.

I Literally have never had anyone do this or ask me to do this just to re-supply ToWs, Machineguns or anything else except Mortars.

That is because you really do not get any advantages with constantly removing and deploying other deployable assets compared to mortars.

Mortars are specific case, as they are in same time supply demanding and want to send as many mines as possible in shortest time possible, as they are relatively easy to counter (you literarily just need commander with UAV and half brain and your mortar squad). With those two realities of mortars, exploit with constantly deploying and removing mortars for full ammo reload enables you. with one solution, to lower supply demand (as you really need only 2 crates to run mortar squad hole game if you do not change spot) and perform more fire missions (as it takes less time to deploy and build mortar, compared to standard rearming).

I can´t say anything about mortars since Ive perhaps used them 2 times in my lfe.

So, you never done mortars? You also probably never talked to someone that does mortars? Then why are you commenting on issue on which you really do not know anything (which you try to compensate with childish passive aggressive commenting and nonexistent "experience" with mortars)?

For most part it takes less time to drop a few ammo packs than it takes to rebuild the asset. I can see weird ***, tryhards shooting ToWs, destroying them, reshooting them as they are being bult, etc. But I have yet to really face this. Maybe it´s happened some rare time and I´ve just forgotten about it. But it certainly wasn´t an issue. The below suggestion or a timer would/could deal with this.

Again, you really do not get any advantages by using this exploit with ATGMs, as you get full advantage of ATGM by being constantly manned and deployed for hole time you need it, both in form of thermal recon and firepower from it (as there are really extreme cases where ATGM operator can outmatch rearming speed of organized squad).

You could possible say that this solution also removes solo ATGM strats (which was done, but not to that extreme like mortar exploit) or at least made them harder to do.

You could literally have made a check that says you can only re-deploy the asset if it has X-ammo. Or at least I imagiine that´s not hardcoded. That would force any would-be exploiter to refill it first, while keeping the use of those extremely few times where someone completely shovels an asset and then wants to re-deploy it two meters in an other direction without re-deploying the FOB.

Except you are making more complex system for no gains from both gameplay and realism viewpoint.

Gameplay viewpoint: Rearming asset to destroy it does not work from this viewpoint because there are many cases when you want to reposition (for example ATGM) from inactive FOB A to active FOB B. By your logic, I would need to send few guys, possible across map to go ream that ATGM, then give them squadlead (or force them to go commander) so they can remove it, only for me to finally be able to deploy ATGM. In this situation, you proposed "solution" is gamebreaking at best.

Realism viewpoint: Since when are soldiers dropping (and leaving it there) mortar mines inside mortar during transport?

New system makes more sense from both viewpoints.

Gameplay viewpoint: It actually reinforces importance of transport chopers and logistic trucks, while fixing know exploit.

Realism viewpoint: It is more realistic. You do not travel around with mine inside tube of mortar or with rounds inside your HMG. You first deploy those systems and only then you arm them with there ammunition.

[MOSES!!]

Advantage of above strategy came from simple fact. For same time you took to run towards crate, rearm ammo, run back and drop it, you could (with smaller or same manpower) remove and deploy mortars for de facto full ammo reload. As extra bonus, you did not need to constantly resupply FOB with new crates, as beginning two crates were enough to sustain you during one game.

This in practice meant that mortar squad which was exploiting in game mechanics was more effective then mortar squad with full coordination, as it was able to do more fire mission with shorter downtime. As exploit was clearly better (and no, admins babysitting mortars and banning people is not solution), DEVs did this last change.

It's an exploit it not meant to be part of the game and you guys don't want to coordinate or work together only for yourselfs and the people here complaining and the tow thread does it on a daily basis and it's wrong And the devs did the right thing you guys just don't want to work and resupply the emplacements together as a squad/team

[InfantryGamer42]

It's an exploit it not meant to be part of the game and you guys don't want to coordinate or work together only for yourselfs and the people here complaining and the tow thread does it on a daily basis and it's wrong And the devs did the right thing you guys just don't want to work and resupply the emplacements together as a squad/team

I am impressed how much wrong takes you can write in one, to long, sentence.