For the time being, get rid of Officer kits

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 16:26

I really like the Rally Point style gameplay, but at the moment, too many things need to go perfectly before a Rally Point can be set.

1) At least four in the squad,
2) SL remembers to pick up Officer Kit at HQ,
3) SL gets to a suitable location without getting killed,
4) SL remembers to deploy RP.

It is good that the kit timer is being deactivated for the Officer Kit, but until the Devs work out how to allow an SL to deploy with the OK as default, I think it should be removed as a requirement for RP deployment.
I can see the logic behind the kit, but at the moment it just means an awful lot of very long walks/swims for Squad Members.

jedermann · Post by **jedermann** » 2007-02-18 16:33

Sometimes only one squad in the whole team is setting a rally point. Usually i am trying to switch teams in such a case. Enabling SLs to place rally points even without Officer kit would keep the teams balanced. I like the system the way it is right now and hope that players just have to get used to it and to get aware of the importance of placing RPs. They also have to learn that an APC is no attack vehicle anymore. It is best deployed by hiding and using the gun to defend it.

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 16:34

StrkTm MurderCityDevil wrote:Possibly the 4 worst points ever made in this forum??

Not really, just experience of playing this game all week, and rarely seeing Rally Points being used successfully. At the moment it is too difficult to use them as intended, which with the flag spawn zones being removed results in lots of walking and waiting and precious little action.

Bob.Dob · Post by **Bob.Dob** » 2007-02-18 16:36

waffle

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2007-02-18 16:37

DrMcCleod wrote:Not really, just experience of playing this game all week, and rarely seeing Rally Points being used successfully. At the moment it is too difficult to use them as intended, which with the flag spawn zones being removed results in lots of walking and waiting and precious little action.

You sure you aren't playing CSS or WOW?

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 16:39

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:You sure you aren't playing CSS or WOW?

....and for your next trick?

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 16:42

jedermann wrote:Sometimes only one squad in the whole team is setting a rally point. Usually i am trying to switch teams in such a case. Enabling SLs to place rally points even without Officer kit would keep the teams balanced. I like the system the way it is right now and hope that players just have to get used to it and to get aware of the importance of placing RPs. They also have to learn that an APC is no attack vehicles anymore. It is best deployed by hiding and using the gun for defending it.

Very true Jedermann. Frankly, I would give SLs the ability to drop Rally Points with any kit. Would make it much less of a chore.
The APC respawn is a great addition by the Devs, but not applicable on so many maps.

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 16:43

Engineer wrote:Squad leaders should start to take the responsibility, now players from squads only to get sniper rifles or pilot kits...

There are great SL's out there, but the majority doesnt use RP's.
A good example is Muttrah, just destroy the USMC map placed RP, and game is over.

Yeah, well Muttrah is a special case that needs a more sensible AAS2 design to fix it.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2007-02-18 16:50

the officer kit is a great idea and I don't see any problems with it. If the SL doesn't choose to use the officer kit or use rally points then it's his loss. You can always leave his squad and make your own one if you think you can do a better job.

jedermann · Post by **jedermann** » 2007-02-18 16:54

mammikoura wrote:the officer kit is a great idea and I don't see any problems with it. If the SL doesn't choose to use the officer kit or use rally points then it's his loss. You can always leave his squad and make your own one if you think you can do a better job.

That's not the point. It's right that i can make my own squad, but i can see getting my *** kicked when the other SLs are not placing RPs. How to defend or attack the frontline by 6vs32. I cannot even defend my own RP this way. On top of that, i don't want to play SL all the time.

StrkTm MurderCityDevil wrote:How does not needing an officer kit to deploy RP's solve any of the issues you stated. You still need 4 squad members, have to "remember" to set one, and still have a chance of being killed while trying to do so, and based on the list you've put together I would bet your chance of being killed is about 75% higher then most players. If your SL simply can't remember to grab an officer kit maybe you should remind him or join another squad...

I cannot tell you the exact reason why they do not place RPs. I guess they don't request the Officer kit or die before placing it.

TheCaptn · Post by **TheCaptn** » 2007-02-18 17:06

jedermann wrote:Sometimes only one squad in the whole team is setting a rally point. Usually i am trying to switch teams in such a case.

So you give up and try to go to the (probably) winning side?!? Why not start your own squad and do it right?

1) On any reasonably full server you should easily be able to invite three people... Either those that know you, or just people from the unassigned list.

2) The current system works extremely well. Squad Leaders can get their officer kits from a main base, an APC (in range of a flag), another squad's rally point, or from a supply crate. That's plenty.

3) This just comes down to experience. Many squad leaders try to reach a particular location that they want to put their rally point on, instead of 'rolling' it along with them. They get killed without reaching their destination, and the opportunity for placing the rally point has been lost. But if they start placing it as soon as it's convenient and then update the point every three minutes (soon to be one minute) then you're laughing.

4) As above... When you start rolling RP's you quickly get a feel for when you can place the next one, so you automatically check your immediate surroundings for a decent location and drop it there.

In short, I hope you guys complaining about it don't get your way. The system is already being tweaked but it doesn't need much. Certainly not the kind of lowest-common-denominator approach you seem to be advocating... The fact that people haven't learned to make the most of the system yet isn't the fault of that system, it's the fault of those players. Give it time and people will get the hang of things.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-02-18 17:10

Pardon me asking, but on what server are you playing on? And what time? Last days maps have been cluttered with rallypoints to the end I can't even find my own RP. Let alone whats my SL or a moving APC.

Some maps are new. Some players are new. The mod is defenitly new. It takes time to adjust. I've gone as SL and completely forgot about that officerskit, but luckly my squadmates usually remind me with a :"stupid *****, get the f... officerskit".

DrMcCleod · Post by **DrMcCleod** » 2007-02-18 17:13

TheCaptn wrote:
In short, I hope you don't get your way. The system is already being tweaked but it doesn't need much. Certainly not the kind of lowest-common-denominator approach you seem to be advocating... The fact that people haven't learned to make the most of the system yet isn't the fault of that system, it's the fault of those players. Give it time and people will get the hang of things.

Unless:

You have no more squads available as is almost always the case on 64-player servers or,

There are not enough solo players on the map to form a 4 man squad.

These problems occur regularly on public servers, and the current Officer Kit dynamics really damage gameplay for those unfortunate enough not to get into decent squad or have the option to make one.
Rally points are great, but there should not be so many hurdles to jump before you can use them well.

jedermann · Post by **jedermann** » 2007-02-18 17:13

TheCaptn wrote:So you give up and try to go to the (probably) winning side?!? Why not start your own squad and do it right?

1) On any reasonably full server you should easily be able to invite three people... Either those that know you, or just people from the unassigned list.

2) The current system works extremely well. Squad Leaders can get their officer kits from a main base, an APC (in range of a flag), another squad's rally point, or from a supply crate. That's plenty.

3) This just comes down to experience. Many squad leaders try to reach a particular location that they want to put their rally point on, instead of 'rolling' it along with them. They get killed without reaching their destination, and the opportunity for placing the rally point has been lost. But if they start placing it as soon as it's convenient and then update the point every three minutes (soon to be one minute) then you're laughing.

4) As above... When you start rolling RP's you quickly get a feel for when you can place the next one, so you automatically check your immediate surroundings for a decent location and drop it there.

In short, I hope you guys complaining about it don't get your way. The system is already being tweaked but it doesn't need much. Certainly not the kind of lowest-common-denominator approach you seem to be advocating... The fact that people haven't learned to make the most of the system yet isn't the fault of that system, it's the fault of those players. Give it time and people will get the hang of things.

It seems your are writing more carefully than you read. I am a friend of the current system. But I play PRM far too often, to know when it is better to spare me the frustration of a battle that is not to win with six men. The game is just more fun for me while being in a team with smart leaders than stupid ones.

Lean_Six_Sigma · Post by **Lean_Six_Sigma** » 2007-02-18 17:14

Are we really discussing changing game elements to help get over squad leaders not know what they are doing?

General comment. I love the, can you change/take out feature "X" because the other team knows how to use it better than the team that I'm always forced to play on.....

In this case, if the squad leader isn't placing them when he has the option to, or in a very very bad case (ie in the middle of the street, like I see all the time) let him/her know over voice chat. If he/she doesn't know how to command, suggest to them that they let someone command who is more familar and train them in how to do it. Be poliet about it though.

Aljen · Post by **Aljen** » 2007-02-18 17:18

I believe that after patch 0.507 we will see more RPs around. Waiting for 2 min after death is sometimes too boring. RP of you squad will be according to change log much more important because you will not able to get lim. kits and ammo at any RP like it is now but only from yours.

I hope I will not see squadleaders with sniper kit in the near future as I sometimes see them now.

ArmedDrunk&Angry · Post by **ArmedDrunk&Angry** » 2007-02-18 17:19

What really sucks is when is 3 left over guys who can't use the officer kit or set rally points or when your SL gets disconnected and now you are SL but would have to travel 1.6K to get the officer kit and return to the frontline.
I don't see why making SL able to deploy RP would harm the gameplay but it seems like it would make the officer kit almost useless exceot for the Bino's.