Commander lacks incentives.

Guerra · Post by **Guerra** » 2007-02-28 00:05

Since Commanders have been nerfed (rightfully) from Vanilla BF2, not many players are willing to accept the role of commander.

To rectify this, I suggest changing the structure of the point system.

So if USMC beats China 200-100, the USMC commander gets 400 points and the Chinese commander gets 100 points.
(The winner gets 2x the score of how many tickets are left, the loser just gets how many tickets are left)

plus whatever they've done during the match.

Just my idea.

If anyone else has suggestions on how to get more people commanding, please feel free to share your ideas.

I think as it stands, most of the time, no one goes commander and it really is a pain in the ***.

Viper5 · Post by **Viper5** » 2007-02-28 00:15

Not for long

=HR=Drayu · Post by **=HR=Drayu** » 2007-02-28 00:30

I love going commander if I have squads that are going to listen. I think the squads are the biggest factor in people not wanting to be commander. I just played a round of Qwai on Tactical gamer as the Chinese commander, we had a GREAT time! Brought back our team from losing to victory, but that is because I had great squads that wanted to listen.

BetterDeadThanRed · Post by **BetterDeadThanRed** » 2007-02-28 00:34

'[R-PUB wrote:Viper5']Not for long

Ahhh, I love it when they say that.

Points with commander really shouldn't matter, the fun of being commander should be the major incentive, after all this is a game, not a job.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2007-02-28 00:51

Commander is an extremely valuable asset. It's a human UAV that can talk to all the squad leaders and set markers for air strikes.

Guerra · Post by **Guerra** » 2007-02-28 01:07

Tactical is the only server I've seen that consistently has good commanders.

Commander position can be fun, but I still think it needs more incentives because too many servers the commander position is empty.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-02-28 01:39

Pretty comprehensive overhaul coming for Commanders in v0.6.

Points / scoring not really a part of the initial overhaul, but we'll get to that later.

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-02-28 01:54

I love Commander. I love it evern more when you fight alongside the guys. The vets usually see your star on top of your head, and you say "Follow me" and they'll go into action with you. Lead enough guys that know what you're doing and it's intense. Make eye contact with the SLs and VOIP them to mark a spot and they'er there, you're there and you guys cause some serious havok.

Nephrmuus · Post by **Nephrmuus** » 2007-02-28 04:44

coolhand wrote:I love Commander. I love it evern more when you fight alongside the guys. The vets usually see your star on top of your head, and you say "Follow me" and they'll go into action with you. Lead enough guys that know what you're doing and it's intense. Make eye contact with the SLs and VOIP them to mark a spot and they'er there, you're there and you guys cause some serious havok.

A commander that is fighting/driving/flying or is even in a location where he could come under fire, is not commanding and I really wouldn't take him seriously at all and certainly wouldn't follow him into combat. Commander is very definitely a full-time job, even in its current, limited state and so if you need to leave the command screen at all during a round, I feel you are missing the point somewhat. I think in overall outlook, you are confusing command (staff officers -> commander) with direct leadership (NCOs & junior officers -> squad leaders).

What I'd give for the commander to spawn inside an inpenetrable bunker with no windows or exits so that John Rambo won't keep taking the job to be a "one-man squad with a pocket full of artillery". Actually, I am actually very serious about this request, though I can see reasons that the devs might think this a little draconian

*sigh* OK, the serious flaming is over now. Sorry! Although this venom is directed at Coolhand, I actually mean it to be directed at the majority of commanders I've experienced on public servers, who seem to be incapable of taking the job seriously. At least this guy uses VOIP, which is a big step up from most - I'm lucky to even get anything beyond accepting artillery requests from a lot of commanders I've served under.

Of course, the 0.6 commander re-working should make the commander a more interesting job and I realise that a lot of the artillery-only commanders are just doing it to fill a gap since the full job seems to be unpopular at present. The semi-commanders would argue, quite reasonably, that artillery without command is better than no artillery or command, so perhaps I am being too hard on them?

coolhand · Post by **coolhand** » 2007-02-28 05:37

I would disagree Neph. That might be your playstyle but not mine. Of course when I go in a fight, I always take my time to check the ComMap for our whole team's situation and give out command then let the SLs know of my intention - and THEN I'll go into the fight. I like going into the fight because I have a better idea of the terrain which is hard to figure out from a top-view. I also like sticking with SLs and his squad because not only do they become my personal bodyguards, but the SLs tend to listen to me when I ask for artillery/supply calls at strategic locations. A 'field' commander.

I do play from the rear every once in a while though. Sometimes I'll drive around giving rides in maps with few vehicles and command like that.

<<SpanishSurfer>> · Post by **<<SpanishSurfer>>** » 2007-02-28 15:53

Nephrmuus wrote:A commander that is fighting/driving/flying or is even in a location where he could come under fire, is not commanding and I really wouldn't take him seriously at all and certainly wouldn't follow him into combat.

As far as this game goes it's far too boring to sit in a corner and give orders that only 1/2 the guys will listen too. The commanders importance in PR right now is only to confirm supply drops, artillery drops, and organize a simple defense and offense with squads, that's it! It's not a full time job, not even close. If you're barking orders every 30 sec then eventually squad leaders will stop listening to you. Remember, it's the squad leaders job to figure out HOW to attack or defend a position, not the commanders. So in short, It's definitely recommended that a commander move and attack like everyone else, because that's 1 more guy and every person counts.

Master Shake · Post by **Master Shake** » 2007-02-28 16:06

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']Pretty comprehensive overhaul coming for Commanders in v0.6.

Points / scoring not really a part of the initial overhaul, but we'll get to that later.

You know, Im just so glad to find DEVs so active and willing to throw out a little bone about whats coming....all the cloak and dagger mod developement does nothing for me except give me a reason to ignore the mod.

Even though this is just a little bone of info its enough to keep me excited eating.........I know my dog never leaves me alone if I always have a little treat in my hand.

Army Musician · Post by **Army Musician** » 2007-02-28 16:06

In real warfare in a troop there are 3/4 sections led by the Corporals and the Troop led by the Troop Commander and the 2IC being the sergeant. The troop commander himself goes into battle with the rest of his troop and finds out a good harbour area for his men.

liikeri · Post by **liikeri** » 2007-02-28 16:09

i think also that commanders should be safe in some bunker away from action. irl how many generals you see in front line fighting? how about none.
these guys are too valuable. for that kind of action. kind of waste for few decades of training and experience.
if it is possible to make commander kit that automaticly goes for commander.
something like.
sidearm
binoclar/soflam
basic camo no combatvest
no armor
or even make them like spectator so they arent even on the field

Wasteland · Post by **Wasteland** » 2007-02-28 16:32

On TG it's great fun to command, because they *have* to listen to you. There's really nothing better.

Guerra · Post by **Guerra** » 2007-02-28 16:34

I think Commander is an important role. Personally, I'm a highly mobile commander. I don't sit in the base and give orders all the time.

Typically, I find some high ground, pull out my binoculars and start spotting stuff for squads. I don't rush in and I don't engage the enemy unless they are rushing me. I zoom in often and look for enemy rally points, vehicles, incoming attacks, etc. Place artillery, supplies and direct squads as is necessary. But I don't think that either staying at the home base or attacking is better than the other. Its all about play styles, some of the best military leaders in history fought in the front lines.

I find that leading by example as Commander or squad leader does encourage my troops although it is very risky. I kinda hate it when I'm hanging back, acting as a mobile spawn point and my squad just stands around for me to do something.

Also, the Commander is NOT a General. What General controls 32 men? Come on, seriously... at best the officer is Captain or Major.

Anyways, right now, the Commander is NOT an attractive position.

Please offer some explicit solutions for this problem. Not just say "its being reworked".

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-02-28 16:40

the commander in game is not a general - more like a lieutenant in charge of a platoon.

liikeri · Post by **liikeri** » 2007-02-28 18:00

ok maby not general but atleast captain. cos i thing when we ad spawns we have atleast 200men fighting in round so were talking about company or even battalion.
dont really know from Which rank the ppl stop being disposable assets

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » 2007-02-28 19:05

The Coming Commander Incentives will include -
-Personal Driver
-Cigars,
-Being able to watch the Game from your Leer Jet while fighting goes on below
-And a Personal Aide that wakes you up when your team is about to win so u can take all the glory

Determined · Post by **Determined** » 2007-02-28 19:13

'[R-CON wrote:Garrison']The Coming Commander Incentives will include -
-Personal Driver
-Cigars,
-Being able to watch the Game from your Leer Jet while fighting goes on below
-And a Personal Aide that wakes you up when your team is about to win so u can take all the glory

I would rather it be like George C Scott in the movie Patton. lol