thoughts on the no AP class?

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-03-14 17:00

please keep this intelligent so it doesnt get locked like the other topic.

imo i quite liked that class, it was under used i agree, i even think that maybe less then 3 people were ever using that class in total per round.

However its so rewarding to pull back from the frontline action, find a nice jungle path or stair case or road siding that the enemy will have to traverse if you lose the flag, and set up some nice little surprises for them.

I think the argument of not taking skill doesnt apply since clays had a detonater (very good move imo)

Also they are very good semi snipers, i mean they get binoculars so you can spot enemies quite far away trying to sneak past the defence, then pick them off.

in short i dont quite understand the motivation for removing them because they help the team (you can spot a lot for them & defend well) other then they were under used.

your thoughs?

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-03-14 17:02

the AP class does not work well as it currently is and needs to be changed

jackal22 · Post by **jackal22** » 2007-03-14 17:04

yes but a total eradication of the class is a little over the top imo.

I also think that they were not too bad, if you treated it as an AP class its was ok, if you ran into a firefight and expected to hold up with a load of rifle men thenyou didnt do so well.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-03-14 17:35

AP is very usefull defendind the bunkers of cs_hillofhamionag.bsp

$kelet0r · Post by **$kelet0r** » 2007-03-14 17:37

My opinion is that only three kits need to be audited:

AP rifleman - current setup is quite good but needs something else to flesh the kit out, could be given SOFLAM as it would suit the purpose of his defensive and squad support role, needs a scoped rifle

Spec Ops - renamed Point Rifleman (VERY important!), designed for CQC, armed with carbine, secondary shotgun and flashbangs, remove SOFLAM and explosives

Engineer - remove shotgun completely, remove repairing wrench (unfortunately this is heavily dependent on whether the Devs can revert DICE's patch change to mines making them indestructable) , design kit as a demolitions specialist with a backpack full of C4 as opposed to one.

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-03-14 17:57

It was a cool kit b/c it had the binoculars, but the binaculars alone were never enough reason to give up ammo packs for me. Whenever I'd want to be AP, I'd have to juggle that tradeoff. I almost always went standard rifleman. The ammo packs were valuable not just to me but my Heavy AT and Snipers too.

I never onced used the claymores. I don't think I've ever died by them either, but I'd hear them go off occassionally.

BLind · Post by **BLind** » 2007-03-14 18:06

$kelet0r wrote:

Spec Ops - renamed Point Rifleman (VERY important!), designed for CQC, armed with carbine, secondary shotgun and flashbangs, remove SOFLAM and explosives

yeh cos thats not gonna get whored by every nub and smacktard

spec ops is fine as is, theres is absolutly no need for a point man.

the AP rifle is ineefective becuase his main advantage (the clays) are kinda crappy. You can lay out a very nice and intricate network of mines but still ur not often gonna catch more than 1 or 2 enemy's. Imo they should be put back so that they are trigger by movement.

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-03-14 18:11

'[R-CON wrote:BLind']yeh cos thats not gonna get whored by every nub and smacktard

spec ops is fine as is, theres is absolutly no need for a point man.

the AP rifle is ineefective becuase his main advantage (the clays) are kinda crappy. You can lay out a very nice and intricate network of mines but still ur not often gonna catch more than 1 or 2 enemy's. Imo they should be put back so that they are trigger by movement.

I'd rather they just be eliminated than that. Else everyone will equip and put them on top of ladders, inside doors, corners of buildings, etc. Unless they didnt' go off if you're crouched or something, like on 2142. But still there's lots of places like rooftops that you could complete cutoff by leaving a claymore at the top of the ladder.

It'll get way out of control, IMO.

Blackhawk 5 · Post by **Blackhawk 5** » 2007-03-14 18:28

Sometimes I use that for nades, clays and binoculars depends on what the situation is.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-14 18:40

We're not removing the capabilities, just the class.

Smitty4212 · Post by **Smitty4212** » 2007-03-14 18:47

Claymores are retarded in-game. If you watch videos of real claymores going off, they are 10x more powerful in real life.

Tralle · Post by **Tralle** » 2007-03-14 18:49

if you made clays go of on motion you would have one guy running up a stair getting blown up, then a medic revives him and they do it over and over again... now where is the realism in that?

vanity · Post by **vanity** » 2007-03-14 18:52

If claymores are put back into the game, they should fire upon friendly triggers also. This will keep people from putting them all over the place. I have a feeling that so many players will get booted from TKs with friendlies triggering theclaymores, that they'd quit using them altogether.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-03-14 19:16

$kelet0r wrote: Spec Ops - renamed Point Rifleman (VERY important!), designed for CQC, armed with carbine, secondary shotgun and flashbangs, remove SOFLAM and explosives

I'm in the crowd that says Spec Ops need to be removed completely, or made into a limited kit.

I too pushed for the idea of a "CQC" kit, but not with all the assets you're describing. I'd simply go with some compact AR or SMG with some sort of reflex sights, maybe a sidearm and a few hand grenades. It's basically a rifleman kit designed for close range rather than mid to long range engagements. Excellent for urban warfare.

JohnnyPissoff · Post by **JohnnyPissoff** » 2007-03-14 19:49

My suggestions to offer each class a distinctive appeal:

1) Make Anti-personnel rifleman the sole ammo dispensing class along with his claymores.
2) Make standard rifleman the only grenade thrower.
3) Give Spec opp a super effective CQ weapon such as the Model 607 CAR-15 or MP7, possibly something with a silencer or noise suppressor.

Each rifleman class should have an implied range capability as to satisfy every player's personal gaming abilities and styles:
- Spec opp close up melee style with minimal aiming capabilities
- Standard Rifleman 2nd wave in with medium aiming capabilities.
- Grenadier medium range backup with full rifle aiming capabilities.

Also the defensive and support classes:
- Anti-personnel Rifleman (w/ammo), squad machine gunner and medic. New players should be made to feel comfortable with those classes.

As for the engineer class; as is, it works out fairly well as "Sapper"*

Snipers? I would limit them to one per team. Possibly further limit their ammo and make them more like forward recon scouts instead of back-base campers.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapper

Guerra · Post by **Guerra** » 2007-03-14 19:51

What the hell? When the hell did they decide to do this? AP rocked!

What about the claymores? By the way, give rifleman binoculars, that way he can feed ammo and spot targets for sniper, marksman or support gunner. Makes it more teamwork.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-03-14 21:24

Is there a class replacing AP Rifleman, or are they just having one less class?

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-14 21:48

the capabilities are being folded into the Engineer class along with tweaks to the other classes.

daschewy · Post by **daschewy** » 2007-03-14 21:50

Apparently they are going to merge some of the capabilities of the AP class with the engineer class.

Maverick--113 · Post by **Maverick--113** » 2007-03-14 21:50

Good, thats what ive been wanting to happen for a while. Go engie!