Map Unbalance Issues

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-03-27 18:47

So this may be a real old issue but definitly shouldn't be something we should ignore. There are a number of maps where I bet one side consistently wins 80% of the time. Yeah I understand there is a "Right way" to do play these maps but still there is a BIG problem if one side is winning 80% of the time. On some maps it seems that one side had too many objects to defend, and once you do actually defend and get a chance to make an attack (hey its about fun, defense isn't always fun) then you are left wide open, not at just one point...but several points. I think the maps need to have choke points so to speak that push people into a fight. As of now, it seems that one team goes left...while the other goes right...and its just a chasing game. 1 team will run back to the downed flag...whilst the bad guys move on. Just an annoying back and forth. Not becuase one team has poor strategy but because they just have two many things to deal with. The map's strategy should have a natural flow thats intuative, maybe to the extent of having only 1 base to attack...and 1 base to defend at any time. Also when the teams are smaller...multiple defend objectives can get real difficult. Anyways just my .02 I'm no pro at all this, when it comes to Online gaming I'm a fan of KISS-Keep it simple stupid.

El_Vikingo · Post by **El_Vikingo** » 2007-03-27 18:49

You don't have to complain about the maps, because most of them are going to be checked for balance issues.

Naming which maps seem to the problem is a good start.

Post by **eggman** » 2007-03-27 19:00

map names, sizes.. would be a big help (some maps have different issues at 32p versus 64p).

Gyberg · Post by **Gyberg** » 2007-03-27 20:15

This is due to lack of teamwork, squads dont check the map to see what the other squads are doing. Often a commander is the solution to this (if the squads listen to him). People find it boring to defend and rush away and thus creating the ping-pong effect, this problem is player induced!

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-03-27 21:43

Gyberg wrote:This is due to lack of teamwork, squads dont check the map to see what the other squads are doing. Often a commander is the solution to this (if the squads listen to him). People find it boring to defend and rush away and thus creating the ping-pong effect, this problem is player induced!

You are right in some sense of the issue. But if the map were truely balanced then both sides would have a similar issue, thus the win/loss percentage would be close to being equal. Now I love having a map thats a little onesided...but as it is now, wow...some of them are really unbalanced. Take "Operation Greasy Mullet" that is a map I am refering a lot of comments towards as an example. To me, it seems like the MEC(I think) are very disadvantaged, and I'd like to see what the win/loss stats on it are. I've played many rounds on it recently and never once seen the opposition win (64plyr). I've seen great team work etc...lots of defense, yet still it turns out that way. Also Muttrah city, never seen USA win that...even when people do things right and fly to the back of the mountains to setup... I've yet to see it work. I've played on most of the main servers and its a constant problem. Now Al Basarah...a great great map...why? Because everyone has the same objective...take Facility....or defend it. You dont have to deal with everyone defending 2-3 different bases and getting spreadout. Its nice and simple and yet very well done. Now I RARELY see USA win here...so its imbalanced a little...I think too many spawn cars for insurgents are the problem, heck their bases are so close to the action...why even give them spawn cars. But still...you have a fighting chance with some great battles. Ghost Train...love it. Hills of Hamyong...I've had the chance to play it only a few times...and its too spreadout as well....too many objectives to defend attack. If you post 1 Chinese squad at each location to defend (common sense) the enemy british will easily take all 3 squads of theirs to one position and take it out..then proceed. Maybe Chinese need better recon(Predator?) here...eitherway, the gameplay just breaks down it seems...now this is just my observance...I haven't played this map much at all. Just examples of my experience. I'm not alone in this either, I hear lots of people talking about this in-game. Oh and most every map I play is a 64-plyr version I believe.

Hx.Clavdivs · Post by **Hx.Clavdivs** » 2007-03-27 21:45

LOL - you ask, and you shall get a reply.

Gyberg · Post by **Gyberg** » 2007-03-27 22:05

I agree that muttrah is unbalanced, I think it was ubalanced back in 0.4 aswell, but this is the general opinion of the devs aswell if Im not wrong.
Hills of Hamgyong can be hard for the brits, they rely on alot of speed in the first minute of the battle.
I cant argue that muttrah isn't unbalanced and I wont. That is one very unbalanced map. Before i used to think that operation phoenix was that aswell but once I realised what tactics to use I dont agree.
I'll have to agree that some maps are unbalanced but most of the problems with teams never being able to win is due to player stupidity.

Sorry if this or my last post came across as harsch, you seem to have thought about your posts and I think that if you just play with the right people you will enjoy all the maps as much as I do (except for muttrah which I simply dont play).

Carpface · Post by **Carpface** » 2007-03-27 23:17

Hills of Hamyong is very easy for the Brits to win if they do what they are supposed to be doing: ASSAULTING. I wouldn't consider it even close in class to maps like Muttrah, or Al Falujah for instance. One of the things these two maps have in common are lower amounts of tickets at start for the Attacking force. I've pondered, and can't come up with a good reason for this. On Al Falujah for instance, the US needs to take far too many points to initiate ticket bleed on the MEC (64 player size). I believe its the Canyon point (the one with the big door) that adds to the problem in this one. This becomes such an orgy of nube-tubes, grenades and RPGs that I feel like I'm playing Karkand again... If by some extraordinary act of God the US gets past that point they will have less than 100 tickets left and 2 or 3 more points to take before the MEC bleeds. On Muttrah, the US starts with less tickets as well and will never win for similar geographical reasons. In my opinion, they need some type of position on land to start with while maintaining their carrier. They need the point because this is a land grab map right from the start. MEC starts with more tickets so they are already winning, they start on land and therefore right beside the majority of the points, and on top of that they have AA guns. By the time the chopper blades are going full speed, MEC may very well have ticket bleed on the US. The US MIGHT be able to establish themselves in the city, depending on the teamwork and skill of the team, but by then they are taking sniper fire+tubes from the hills when they have much ground to cover in order to even reach Gas Station.

I totally hear what everyone is saying about teamwork, but this principle still has to apply to both sides. Maps like these don't require skill whatsoever for the defenders in exploiting the terrain, the advantages are given to them right from the start.

Sneak Attack · Post by **Sneak Attack** » 2007-03-28 00:40

maps that take an entire team to work together will never work.

maps that take 2-3 squads working together will rarely work

maps that take 1-2 squads to work together will usually work

maps that take 1 squad to work together will work.

to many morons in the game to make teamwork work well. thats just the way video games are.

00SoldierofFortune00 · Post by **00SoldierofFortune00** » 2007-03-28 02:10

VipersGhost wrote:You are right in some sense of the issue. But if the map were truely balanced then both sides would have a similar issue, thus the win/loss percentage would be close to being equal. Now I love having a map thats a little onesided...but as it is now, wow...some of them are really unbalanced. Take "Operation Greasy Mullet" that is a map I am refering a lot of comments towards as an example. To me, it seems like the MEC(I think) are very disadvantaged, and I'd like to see what the win/loss stats on it are. I've played many rounds on it recently and never once seen the opposition win (64plyr). I've seen great team work etc...lots of defense, yet still it turns out that way. Also Muttrah city, never seen USA win that...even when people do things right and fly to the back of the mountains to setup... I've yet to see it work. I've played on most of the main servers and its a constant problem. Now Al Basarah...a great great map...why? Because everyone has the same objective...take Facility....or defend it. You dont have to deal with everyone defending 2-3 different bases and getting spreadout. Its nice and simple and yet very well done. Now I RARELY see USA win here...so its imbalanced a little...I think too many spawn cars for insurgents are the problem, heck their bases are so close to the action...why even give them spawn cars. But still...you have a fighting chance with some great battles. Ghost Train...love it. Hills of Hamyong...I've had the chance to play it only a few times...and its too spreadout as well....too many objectives to defend attack. If you post 1 Chinese squad at each location to defend (common sense) the enemy british will easily take all 3 squads of theirs to one position and take it out..then proceed. Maybe Chinese need better recon(Predator?) here...eitherway, the gameplay just breaks down it seems...now this is just my observance...I haven't played this map much at all. Just examples of my experience. I'm not alone in this either, I hear lots of people talking about this in-game. Oh and most every map I play is a 64-plyr version I believe.

No way, Greasy Mullet is perfectly balanced. The MEC actually have a slightly better advantage in AAS 2 as well since they do not really need to travel as far or way in the back as the US does for the Industry? flag. But that map is pretty much one of the best balanced maps in the game, it just depends on the sides.

Maps that are disadvantages though are

Fallujah- Please, just get rid of this map already!!!!! Not only is it boring(learned that from the tournament), but it is also unrealistic and wide open(vanilla)

Muttrah- everyone knows about its problem though

Gulf of Oman- not only is the lag a problem, but we took the MEC all the way back to the last 2-3 flags and they still won. MEC should start out from their main so that they meet the US as they just come ashore.

Also, I agree that Hills is a little easy for the British now, but before it was a British slaughter, so it needs to be somewhere inbetween.