Kits-Combat engie and Support (m249/minimi, GPMG/M240)

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-07-30 04:13

They need to be switched

In a USMC, US Army, or RMC/British Army fireteam, you have (pretty consistently):
2 riflemen
1 LMG
and 1 grenadier or heavy support man.

Engineers almost never see combat. Their main role is building fortifications, and destroying those of the enemy along with setting traps and breaching doors.

in short, Support or grenadier (or both) need to be part of the regular kits, while engie should be a requestable with much more capabilities than it already has.

whenever I play PR, i feel limited by my choices, either corpsman, rifleman, or spec ops. engie is useless, most encounters are over 5 meters, which is the shotgun's useable distance. even the slugshot is really accurate only up to around 50 meters or so. c4 is hardly useable unless destroying enemy buildings, as teamkills happen waayyy too often.

I really want to see this in .7

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-07-30 05:36

I hated the shotgun in .5; used it the other day on OGT and got a few kills from a distance with the Chinese one using buckshot. Insurgents the only ones with slugs now?

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2007-07-30 05:51

Shotgun does not suck nearly as bad as it did back in .5. In one day I have gotten more kills with the .6 shotguns(6) than I my total number of .5 shotgun kills(2).

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-07-30 06:04

Yeah and that spread does help mid-ranged headshots. I especially love it vs spedful forces players.

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-07-30 06:36

in view-
2 m16a4s
1 m249 saw
2 m240 lmgs

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-07-30 06:46

That's mucho firepower...

Zybon · Post by **Zybon** » 2007-07-30 06:53

I actually agree with this. Engineers have tools for situations a squad may not always encounter, so being able to run back to the rally (or whatever) instead of having to wait for someone to die (or suicide) to get them would be helpful.

On the other hand, you also lose the only base class that has anti-tank capabilities...

Chaosdragon001 · Post by **Chaosdragon001** » 2007-07-30 07:18

Well, it's not like you're going to run up to some piece of enemy armor and place a mine under it anyway in real life...

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-07-30 07:20

JIIIHAAAD

or you could lay on the ground like a dead guy and pray for a tank to run over you like in letters from Iwo Jima

Zybon · Post by **Zybon** » 2007-07-30 07:31

Chaosdragon001 wrote:Well, it's not like you're going to run up to some piece of enemy armor and place a mine under it anyway in real life...

True, but tanks aren't manned by a single person either.

robbo · Post by **robbo** » 2007-07-30 11:26

pasfreak wrote:

in view-
2 m16a4s
1 m249 saw
2 m240 lmgs

Hmm i see-
4 M16A4s
1 (possible) Minmi, the black guy.
2 M240s

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-07-30 11:44

Why would he have the Minimi? If you've got a Black guy in your squad surely you'd give him the heaviest most powerful thing you've got?

Seriously though, I'm no military expert or anything but that pictures not great evidence for having an abundance of machineguns, I'd of thought they were some sort of specialised weapons team for fire support or something.

I do kinda agree with you though. Forgotten Hope 2 has a system in which you have all the kits for your army in the spawn screen but they are limited based in a Day of Defeat kind of way (If your limit is 2 snipers and 2 are spawned you can't spawn sniper etc). If there were a way of making this squad based then that may be a way of getting round the problem.

Only thing is theres a bit of an uproar about spawning on squad leaders, which I completely agree with, and if something like that gets removed then there should be no problem just requesting these kinds of things anyway.

I'm a bit confused as to why you keep mentioning the shotgun for engineers though? It's only on 2 or 3 maps or something like that, most of the time you get a un-scoped assault rifle.

Longbow* · Post by Longbow* » 2007-07-30 13:52

robbo wrote:Hmm i see-
4 M16A4s
1 (possible) Minmi, the black guy.
2 M240s

And SL armed with M4..

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-07-30 15:53

Here we go...

robbo · Post by **robbo** » 2007-07-30 17:26

Oh ok my mistake about the M4,
It isnt the strongest reference to the amount of HMGs a squad has but every video i see of Royal Marines or the Paras they have plenty of Support weapons in abundance.

And don't touch the Combat engie i LOVE that kit the shotgun is god in OGT i lay in the grass for them to pass jump up boom buckshot all across mid body however i do miss slug rounds

Maybe give him another C4 or 2?.

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-07-30 18:04

There is only 2 maps where a regular army has shotguns instead of rifles:

Operation Ghost Train
Operation Pheonix

so I dont think engineer is 'useless'...

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-07-30 18:09

I don't think its realistic

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-07-30 18:20

well pasfreak your right, an engineer would NOT be in a regular infantry squad.

and in PR, almost all the time, the engineer is NOT in a regular infantry squad cause its just not that useful in an infantry squad (minus ghost train because certain peoples obsessions with shotguns

)

with the limiting of special ops and adding another rifleman, we will see 3 options for 'infantry' squads and 1 option for 'vehicle squads'.

do not choose engineer if your in an infantry squad. engineer is highly useful as vehicle support and commander support.

BTW, you want grenadier or support to be unlimited, yet I almost NEVER see these being used regularly. Just request them, I can almost guarantee they will be avaliable! they are HIGHLY useful kits however they are not on the spawn screen because everyone would be spawning with them instead of the default kit (rifleman)

SevenOfDiamonds · Post by **SevenOfDiamonds** » 2007-07-30 18:23

maybe engineers should be the only ones with a minimap to have it act like GPS.