Best squad make up?

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2005-11-15 23:42

So after playing for a few weeks I thought everyone would like to put in there "Best squad make up"

Here are mine
CLOSE QUARTER
2 support class (cover both sides of streets)
2 medics (doing ther job)
1 sniper (watching out for targets)
1 specops or AT

OPEN FIELDS i.e. wetlands
1 Enginer
1 support class
1 medics
1 sniper
2 AT

And at least for me, the squad leader should NEVER take the flag first. Should be the sniper class marking out targets and being a mobile spawn point!

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-16 01:51

As the game stands right now?

Vs. Infantry
- Medic
- Medic
- Medic
- Medic
- Medic
- Medic

Vs. Armor/Open Field
- Medic
- Medic
- Medic
- AT
- AT
- AT

How much would you like to wager that my squads would easily defeat yours

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-16 02:24

you need 1 support with those.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-11-16 02:40

I'm gonna have to go with:

- Engineer
- Engineer
- Engineer
- Engineer
- Engineer
- Engineer

BTW, for those of you who don't know, I'm Brentos

Blackbird · Post by **Blackbird** » 2005-11-16 03:38

1 serport
1spec ops
1 or 2 AT
1 or 2 medic
1 assoult

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2005-11-16 05:45

With my experiences I notice that as long as everyone works as a team we work best with:

2 Assault
1 Sniper
1 Support
1 Medic
1 Special Forces

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-16 07:47

Note that I wasn't kidding. All you need are medics and AT guys as it stands.

Support

Unreliable & slower. Accuracy is much less than the medic (medic also can get the scope with the L85). If you put a medic and a support class in a cowboy-style shootout, the medic would win every time (assuming they both have the same skill level with the weaponry).

No need for the ammo, as long as you keep your squad leader alive. AT guys can run to their death when needed to respawn back on the SL.

SpecOps

The aimpoint has a thicker dot than the medic's scope point. Makes medic far more useful at long range. If using the G36, there's no contest, as a medic vs a G36 (same skill level) ... the G36 guy wont survive.

The C4 isn't useful for winning the game. You have your AT guys to dispense of any armor problems without risking their necks. Not to mention, C4 power has been drastically taken down. I've managed to put 4 sticks of C4 on the back of a chinese tank and not blow it.

Sniper

I love sniping... it's all I do in vanilla BF. No point in sniping anymore though, since targets can be hit much easier. The fact that the sniper can sometimes beat targets at longer ranges doesnt outweigh the fact that the sniper is considerably underpowered (as he should be) in close range encounters and AT encounters. The bolt action doesnt help either (unless you're MEC).

Assault

I'm against using 203 or GP-30 until it's fixed. It's unrealistic and out of balance. Aside from that, the assault class has nothing else going for it. As mentioned, most rifles will kill with one shot to the head and with a couple to the body so judging a rifle on lethality is a moot point. Judging based on accuracy is not, but the medic's L85 can be just as accurate as any other weapon when in the right hands.

Engineer

Completely useless for combat. A short burst of any automatic rifle will kill at close range, so the shotgun really isn't that effective anymore... not to mention it takes a while to reload. Repairing vehicles helps, but the uber-wrench isn't fast enough when the vehicle is engaged anyhow. A tank usually sticks out like a soar thumb for other tanks/apcs/choppers so it's lifespan is usually very low.

Mines aren't useful enough to consider this guy as part of a squad.

-------------

Now, even I'm wrong about the medics having better rifles (which they do, since damage has been increased.. the scope pretty much makes the L85 an easy to use rifle). Even if I'm wrong about that, you have a bunch of medics anyhow

As long as you keep your squad leader alive, which you shouldn't have a problem with that many medics, you can mulitply your team count by 8, since everyone will stay alive much longer.

The ideal squads for you guys seem like the ideal squads for a game you wish you were playing. At the moment though, the ideal squads you mentioned will get slaughtered.

Things will change soon and this won't be the case (thankfully), but, until now, trying to add variety does more harm than good.

GABBA · Post by **GABBA** » 2005-11-16 16:29

A sqaud can't do shit if they aint gonna cooperate. I'm sure any mix of guys could own giving that they have the right teamwork at hand.

Artnez i totally disagree with you on the engineer. A well place shot to the chest will put any guy down.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2005-11-16 19:02

GABBA wrote:A sqaud can't do shit if they aint gonna cooperate. I'm sure any mix of guys could own giving that they have the right teamwork at hand.

Yes and the argument about not using the noob nade because its UNrealistic is laughable when you are saying that medic owns all. How realistic is it to get a clip dumped into you only to magicly be good as new with a quick jolt from the shock paddles? I would put that into the land of ludicrous....

That being said, its quite satisfying using bullets to kill a guy and watch a medic come run to revive only to put a noob nade onto both of them.

Assault is > Medic

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-16 22:52

SiN|ScarFace wrote:Yes and the argument about not using the noob nade because its UNrealistic is laughable when you are saying that medic owns all. How realistic is it to get a clip dumped into you only to magicly be good as new with a quick jolt from the shock paddles? I would put that into the land of ludicrous....

That being said, its quite satisfying using bullets to kill a guy and watch a medic come run to revive only to put a noob nade onto both of them.

Assault is > Medic

This mod is not based on pure 100% realism. The mod, as stated many times by the devs, is here to create an authentic combat situation using BF2, with authentic armies and the like.

Assault

I'm against using 203 or GP-30 until it's fixed. It's unrealistic and out of balance.

The GP-30 and M203 are "bugged" or so to speak. They do not have a fuse that will keep the 40mm grenade from arming if the shot is below a certain amount of meters.

This is the equivalent of changing the M4 to fire lasers.

Yes, the medic shock paddles are unrealistic, we all know that, but it is still a necessary part of gameplay.

The M203 is not only unrealistic (in that there is no fuse) it is also extremely unbalanced in relevence to the rest of the game.

The primary objective here is achieving great gameplay, not pre uncut 100% realism. Not to mention, it's a minimod and the developers have yet to add all of the things they want.

So like I said, the GP-30 and M203 are not considered (by me, atleast) as a weapon that should be used until it's fixed.

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-17 00:05

I dont like squads

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-17 01:05

thats too bad, theyre good for teamwork and IMO the best new feature bf2 brought to the table.

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2005-11-17 01:55

Artnez.com wrote:Note that I wasn't kidding. All you need are medics and AT guys as it stands.

Support

Unreliable & slower. Accuracy is much less than the medic (medic also can get the scope with the L85). If you put a medic and a support class in a cowboy-style shootout, the medic would win every time (assuming they both have the same skill level with the weaponry).

No need for the ammo, as long as you keep your squad leader alive. AT guys can run to their death when needed to respawn back on the SL.

SpecOps

The aimpoint has a thicker dot than the medic's scope point. Makes medic far more useful at long range. If using the G36, there's no contest, as a medic vs a G36 (same skill level) ... the G36 guy wont survive.

The C4 isn't useful for winning the game. You have your AT guys to dispense of any armor problems without risking their necks. Not to mention, C4 power has been drastically taken down. I've managed to put 4 sticks of C4 on the back of a chinese tank and not blow it.

Sniper

I love sniping... it's all I do in vanilla BF. No point in sniping anymore though, since targets can be hit much easier. The fact that the sniper can sometimes beat targets at longer ranges doesnt outweigh the fact that the sniper is considerably underpowered (as he should be) in close range encounters and AT encounters. The bolt action doesnt help either (unless you're MEC).

Assault

I'm against using 203 or GP-30 until it's fixed. It's unrealistic and out of balance. Aside from that, the assault class has nothing else going for it. As mentioned, most rifles will kill with one shot to the head and with a couple to the body so judging a rifle on lethality is a moot point. Judging based on accuracy is not, but the medic's L85 can be just as accurate as any other weapon when in the right hands.

Engineer

Completely useless for combat. A short burst of any automatic rifle will kill at close range, so the shotgun really isn't that effective anymore... not to mention it takes a while to reload. Repairing vehicles helps, but the uber-wrench isn't fast enough when the vehicle is engaged anyhow. A tank usually sticks out like a soar thumb for other tanks/apcs/choppers so it's lifespan is usually very low.

Mines aren't useful enough to consider this guy as part of a squad.

-------------

Now, even I'm wrong about the medics having better rifles (which they do, since damage has been increased.. the scope pretty much makes the L85 an easy to use rifle). Even if I'm wrong about that, you have a bunch of medics anyhow As long as you keep your squad leader alive, which you shouldn't have a problem with that many medics, you can mulitply your team count by 8, since everyone will stay alive much longer.

The ideal squads for you guys seem like the ideal squads for a game you wish you were playing. At the moment though, the ideal squads you mentioned will get slaughtered.

Things will change soon and this won't be the case (thankfully), but, until now, trying to add variety does more harm than good.

The assault class is good in urban combat. They only carry 1 smoke but if you are moving across a street with enemy movement at the end the smoke could come in handy.

Support: I only play support (when I am not flying helo's) support kicks butt. I can kill people just as good at 100 yards as I can from point blank. It is all how you use the gun. You cant just open up like a mad man and win, hold to 3-4 round bursts and keep prone you will do okay.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2005-11-17 16:01

Artnez.com wrote:This mod is not based on pure 100% realism. The mod, as stated many times by the devs, is here to create an authentic combat situation using BF2, with authentic armies and the like.

The GP-30 and M203 are "bugged" or so to speak. They do not have a fuse that will keep the 40mm grenade from arming if the shot is below a certain amount of meters.

This is the equivalent of changing the M4 to fire lasers.

Yes, the medic shock paddles are unrealistic, we all know that, but it is still a necessary part of gameplay.

The M203 is not only unrealistic (in that there is no fuse) it is also extremely unbalanced in relevence to the rest of the game.

The primary objective here is achieving great gameplay, not pre uncut 100% realism. Not to mention, it's a minimod and the developers have yet to add all of the things they want.

So like I said, the GP-30 and M203 are not considered (by me, atleast) as a weapon that should be used until it's fixed.

I enjoy this mod more than vanilla BF2 (which I have not played since .2 came out) I just play the games, I dont make them nor do I care to suggest what should be done. If its good I play it if its not I wont.

I could care less if the 203 were taken out of the game or nerfed. I prefere gun fights anyway, but if its in the game and its attached to my fav class (assault) then im going to use the nades.

Reviveing people is not essential to the game. And arguing that something is not realistic but then defending something more unrealistic as needed for good game play is rediculous IMO. Killing somone only for them to be revived is lame, and when you are saying a squad of medics owns all, that only promotes sloppy tactics because you know all your squad mates can revive you. Instead of crying about how lame reviving is, I kill and ambush fools who play medic squads and get repeat kills.

I have never seen a medic clear an area or even look both ways before crossing the street, they just bee line to the fallen even tho they know somone near by obviously killed them. I just wait for the revive and kill them both with a noob nade as its the best tool to get the job done.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2005-11-17 22:42

youre right, reviving isnt essential to the game play, but it does add alot more to it than those horrid grenade launchers. the only thing is finding a more realistic way to get a down man fighting again (obviously it should be impossible after taking a bad beating to the head or around other vital areas). if the defribs can be replaced with animation of bandaging or other practical battlefield medic stuff then it will not only still be good for teamwork and gameplay but will fit a little bit better.

Artnez · Post by **Artnez** » 2005-11-17 23:08

BrokenArrow wrote:youre right, reviving isnt essential to the game play, but it does add alot more to it than those horrid grenade launchers. the only thing is finding a more realistic way to get a down man fighting again (obviously it should be impossible after taking a bad beating to the head or around other vital areas). if the defribs can be replaced with animation of bandaging or other practical battlefield medic stuff then it will not only still be good for teamwork and gameplay but will fit a little bit better.

Exactly.

In the real world, a military Operation can take weeks (sometimes months) to prepare. Everything is very coordinated with sea/ground/air. Here, you jump into a server and you're off.

Scarface, I see your point, but I wasn't only referring to the unrealistic aspect. If something is unrealistic but still adds to the objective of gameplay then it is obviously ok. But, if it is unrealistic and unbalances the gameplay, I prefer to just stay away from it.

You are right though, Scarface, if it's at your disposal you have every right to use it to it's best ability.

Post by **CodeRedFox** » 2005-11-17 23:22

"Reviveing people is not essential to the game"

Yes, this is why the respwn rate need to be cranked up....say 30 sec....or a min? this is the only thing that I seen missing from most servers.