Make the SAW manditory

CAS_117 · Post by **CAS_117** » 2007-08-06 02:24

I know theres been a post like this awhile back, but the search wasn't getting much. The SAW is underused and is the only kit left usually (S33 t3h UB3R SNIp3r Ki7s). The I'm not sure about the US military, but the Canadian infantry doctrine is to have aggressive attack with machine gun fire supported by riflemen and M203 if necessary (keyword is supported by). If there isn't a SAW, the offensive capabilities of that platoon is nulled. The whole fireteam concept is based around the machine gun, and I think PR is really missing that right now. Marks men, AT, AA, LAT are not used nearly as frequently as the SAW IRL. But in PR the opposite is true.

The SAW really is getting overlooked for a few reasons.

1. No scope

2. Seems cumbersome to new players and they'd rather take a marksman, or specops kit. (not a completely rational argument, but most humans aren't).

3. When the untrained mind hears "suppressive fire" it translates it as "Oh! I have to stay here and sit, poking my head out to get shot while my squad mates have all the fun!"

To be honest I have feel a lot like this so I'm not just pointing people out. But I think that the SAW kit needs to be what the squad is based around. So, before any kits are taken, I think that at least 1 SAW must be in the squad. I'm not sure about how many people need to be in a squad in order to use it, but I think that it should be 3 the least. In fact I think that making certain kits mandatory (*Medic? Cough*) would make a much richer experience... which is why I think this will be hard coded...

Post by **Bob_Marley** » 2007-08-06 02:31

Sounds interesting, but the maximum number of SAWs would have to be upped and them limited to 1 per squad.

Also, it might cripple the team if just 1 or 2 SAWs were captured as thats 2 squads that can't use limited kits that they might be in desperate need of like AT or grenadier.

MajorPwnag3 · Post by **MajorPwnag3** » 2007-08-06 02:42

I think a scope on the SAW and other support guns may convince others to use them. At first glance, many players just see another machine gun, and, with all the other extremely accurate weapons, getting a long range sniper rifle that gets lots of kills is more appealing than a gun that spits out lots of inaccurate fire that helps your teammates get kills. If a scope was added to this class, then the support weapons would become deadly, and being more deadly means the enemies duck out of the way faster, making it a true suppression weapon. I do not want to see squads need to have certain kits; perhaps more restrictions based on the amount of people in the squad are in order (i.e. you need x people to get Light AT, x to get Heavy AT, and x for Marksman, etc.)? And, if you catch me online, there will definitely be at least one medic or support gunner in your squad.

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2007-08-06 02:50

yeah when ever planning an offensive i always employ a "suppressive fire guy"

the saw is good though unless you are in a range of less than 50 m you dont get the kill in the first bursts.

but I use it to scare them.

yep thats rite,

seeing tracer rounds firing over your head freaks you out when you dont know when its coming from.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-06 02:52

Kits are restricted, you can't have more than two Light ATs in a squad, for example, and also 2 SAWs is max per squad.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2007-08-06 02:56

The lack of LMG use in Project Reality disappoints me... but when people actually do use them (mainly when they're set up as a static defense, such as on Hills of Hamyong), it looks pretty sweet watching two or three sets of tracers converge on an enemy truck.

Ikarti · Post by **Ikarti** » 2007-08-06 07:25

Suppressive fire in the context of a video game is kinda worthless. It helps sometimes, but more often than not people are going to gamble that they can kill the gunner before the gunner gets them. Happened to me the other day, kept him down for a bit then he jumped up and popped me. Why not? IRL, if you die you don't get back up.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-08-06 07:40

IRL, you don't even think about poping up, when under fire, especially from the M249

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2007-08-06 07:46

Yea someone made a good point about this elsewhere, problem is people can instantly pop and get a headshot on you. Firing lots of tracers and making alot of noise often means you end up dead. Saw is a great gun though.
Last time I remember being asked to be the support gunner, I got chucked out of the squad for not standing next to the SL. I killed 3 of their attackers, it worked quite well imo because the enemy was divided between our positions and so was distracted. They still all died though, opps

pasfreak · Post by **pasfreak** » 2007-08-06 07:54

make the saw and light at a standard kit

they are IRL and pretty soon were gonna have like 20 requestables.

Ikarti · Post by **Ikarti** » 2007-08-06 07:57

pasfreak wrote:make the saw and light at a standard kit

they are IRL and pretty soon were gonna have like 20 requestables.

I think support could go back to standard kit. Light AT, not so much. APCs pop real quick if everyone just spawns in Light AT.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-08-06 08:00

Suppresive fire does work on me to an extent.

Dumb Q: Are SAW's really THAT inaccurate when you stand and fire? I mean it fires the same round as the M4 ffs...

Zybon · Post by **Zybon** » 2007-08-06 08:03

I believe the biggest problem is that once you start firing, someone will pop up where you're not aiming and headshot you in short order. I don't know if it's because of guns being too accurate, being too easy to tell location from sound, having a stream of tracers leading back to your head, or the maps not giving enough (peripheral) protection, but support people just do not live very long.

And how exactly would you force a kit on a squad?

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2007-08-06 08:05

I played Seven gates as the brits the other night. Had 21-6 KDR in about 20-30 minutes using almost exclusively the saw. It kills at 150 meters quite well for me but not to the extent of 50m's mass death. The key to using the saw is flanking and "surprise I shot everyone in the ***" tactics...also moving often. They are incredibly deadly right now, few people use them properly though...I am seeing more and more of them used with increasingly effectiveness...especially on the defensive side.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2007-08-06 08:16

Yes they work well in combination with others. The surpression thing doesnt work because of things like dolphin diving, not so much that guns are too accurate as they are instantly accurate wether you have just stood up, fallen to the ground, fallen off a building or whatever - a constant stream of bullets in comparison loses its advantages then.

I agree it should be a spawnable kit now, comparable to the rifleman. The PLA gun is pap

Post by **fuzzhead** » 2007-08-06 08:35

I agree that the support weapons are not used properly enough and I think you guys are right, the extremely dead on accuracy of the scoped assault rifles are to blame.

I dont like it how a guy can get shot twice, prone dive, plop a bandage of the ground, then pop back up, take that headshot, and keep moving all in less than 5 seconds.... accuracy should be based on steadying your aim alot more than it currently is..

right now staying still means your a dead man,you ALWAYS must be moving, strafing, dodging, currently in firefights, and to me that is just stupid looking and makes for really crappy fighting.

A man who has been stationary for a minute observing a firing angle should have infinitely more accuracy over 50 meters than a man who has been spritning around the map, proning constantly, and side strafing like a mad man, but right now these two meet and almost assuredly the guy who is moving more will win the firefight if they see each other at the same time, i dont like that.

[T]Terranova7 · Post by **[T]Terranova7** » 2007-08-06 08:54

There was a topic regarding the effects of being hit or fired upon by smalls arms. The problem is the fact that players ingame are too bold in a firefight. The need for survival isn't something that can, and may never be simulated properly in games. Players will always take the highest risk, even it means sticking their heads out while under heavy suppression fire.

Now about that topic. The idea is basically that your aim is forced back to hip, and possibly some other special effects take place while under fire in order to disoriente the player. Thus forcing him or her to take cover, or manuver to another position. A similar effect was present (and probably still is) in America's Army. Everytime you were shot your accuracy went down, and your HUD shook quite a bit. It usually was enough to make you take cover, and sometimes seek medical attention. Players almost never tried to return fire without finding a safer location. If something could be emulated for PR, I believe support weapons could defiantly become more effective, and you may see them used much more often.

SGT.JOKER · Post by **SGT.JOKER** » 2007-08-06 09:34

yea ive noticed that the SAWs (or any LMG for that matter) are being under used since people are favoring accuracy over rate of fire, wich is ok some times but some times theres just those times when you NEED a support gunner in your squad

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2007-08-06 09:50

I'd like to know if M249's are as inaccurate IRL at full atuo standing still as they are in the game when you're out of your sights.

pureperversions · Post by **pureperversions** » 2007-08-06 15:29

i love putting suppresive fire down to help team mates advanced but these days we have the survival rate of a waterballon in a hedgehog orgy