M1A1 Abrams tank

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-23 07:45

We need to make this tank and all tanks more realstice. First of all the m1a1 takes a crew of 4. The driver the loader the gunner and the commander. Not the gunner fires the main shell. The commander has the gun on top. This mod callede poe got it right. http://www.pointofexistence.com/m1a2.php This mod is great it wont be out for a long time. But i would like you guys to go to there website and read there storyline its the best ever. Anyways if you guys fix the tank it would make it more real. so 1 person just cant get in a tank and go own. Plz fix the tanks

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-11-23 07:47

I wouldn't mind if tanks just needed a driver and gunner. Commander and loader uses up your personnel

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2005-11-23 07:48

Yeah, I'm sure PR team will love you now. "Go here and be like these guys!"

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-23 08:13

dude look at the name of the mod. I think i keep getting killed by tanker to much. In fact i might not even play this mod if they dont fix the tanks. Thats what i mostley do is drive a tank on big maps. Urban im a tank gunner. This would make more teamwork. So the side with the most teamwork wins.

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-23 08:23

Cerberus wrote:I wouldn't mind if tanks just needed a driver and gunner. Commander and loader uses up your personnel

This would be for the main mod by then i think this mod will have a lot of people. The loader can rise up into a gun uptop and the commander can duck down and look in a scope and see whats the gunners seeing. To give the command to fire. The commander also gets to spot other tanks. Also the abrams tank has infored sight. For night map were the other tank gives off heat and the gunner can see it from far away. The commander cant spot becuase its dark. Plz fix the tanks

Maj.b00bz · Post by **Maj.b00bz** » 2005-11-23 09:00

I rarely say that a game like WWII online did something right but their tank sim method is the best. Every position can be crewed but you don't need ever position filled to operate it. Have a driver, a commander, a loader and a gunner position. The loader won't actually reload but he can use the bow MG. Just like now you can switch positions but unlike now you don't get the driver/loader/gunner arcade style game. To be truely effective, multi-crewing will have to be used. If you solo it, you'll only get a portion of the benefit.

I've always felt the commander should be able to choose which assests to unlock. With excpetion of Hummer's/Jeeps, tanks, APC's, planes and helo's should be in reserve until teh commander needs them. Nothing's worse than needing your assets and them not being there. He can keep his the support assests locked until he needs them. That way you don't get the yahoo's that hijack your tanks and go blazing off into the sunset or worse, the enemy's guns. Imagine you need a helo insertion and your transport helo is off stat padding the enemy spawns. It's infantry that wins the maps in RL. Properly supported with tanks and other support vehicles they should regain their status.

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-23 09:09

Maj.b00bz wrote:The loader won't actually reload but he can use the bow MG.

hmmmm no he would hit the fire button to put the next shell into the cannon. to use the tank this all you would need in 2 the loader and gunner. To move you would need a driver. To get a better spotter get a commander. Come on 1 person in a tank it not real at all. Im postive that the dev will fix the tanks how cant they. maybe there really not a reality mod

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2005-11-23 10:37

I've never played WWII Online but I have played Panzer Elite and it had the same general principal. You could choose to fill certain positions, such as driver, radio-operator/hull MGer, or you could control the whole tank, drive and gun at the same time. Although I doubt this is possible in BF2 I would at least like to see some method to the madness. I'd still worry about having a driver and gunner position seperately, because that would really, really depend on having two guys who won't break out into "YOU ****ING NOOB YOU SUCK DONT EVER DRIVE/GUN AGAIN" when they die, and also, I can see now there will be people who will hop in the drivers seat, drive the tank along, and when needed hop into the gunner position to use the guns, then switch, etc. This is managable but having both.. I dunno.

What I WOULD like to see very much is atleast 3 positions in the tank. I'd like to see atleast a main gun gunner, and two machinegunners uptop. IRL M1's are armed with two MGs ontop of the turret at the loader and commander positions, both of which can be used along with the co-axial MG to rip some shit up. I'd also like to see tanks be realistically vulnerable to anti-tank weapons, and I think doing that, and giving them 3 machineguns plus a main gun will help balance it. They will be susceptible, yes, but they will also be tracked fortresses gleaming with weapons.

Maj.b00bz · Post by **Maj.b00bz** » 2005-11-23 10:55

Heydude235 wrote:hmmmm no he would hit the fire button to put the next shell into the cannon.

That's too extreme. You'll never get a guy to sit there with his only job to hit the fire button. It's still a game.

Heydude235 wrote: Come on 1 person in a tank it not real at all.

Precisely. Having one person in a tank is not real. But like I said, it's still a game. One person should be able to operate the vehicle but at a greatly reduced capability. One person can go back and get the tank to bring it up to the line. Once there they can fill it out or not. It should be left to the players to decide how to use it. As a static pillbox or as a tank.

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-23 12:22

Well then make the tanks have long spwan times. Becuase hafe the time i died is becuase of a tank.

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-11-23 14:17

I'm assuming you meant the M1A2, maybe the SEP, as the A1 isn't so common these days, even among the marines it's becoming a less common sight (although they still have a lot). Tanks shouldn't really be used for urban fighting, they're not designed for it, and especially not the Abrams, they're made for taking on heavy armour head to head in an open battlefield which is why their armour is up front.

I'd think the best way to go is have a driver, gunner and "commander". The "Commander" could use the "spotted" buttons which then puts a mark on the mini-map for the gunner so he knows where the commander has seen some sort of threat, and he can also man the cupola MG up top to use against infantry and aircraft and whatever takes his fancy. The driver, obviously, drives, the gunner guns.

A unique advantage of having seperate drivers and gunners is that you could be aiming behind the tank whilst still being able to drive properly as the driver is still seeing where he's going. Maybe you could make it so the commander can say what direction to go by pressing forwards, back, left and right (like in Operation Flashpoint) with a verbal and text message so you don't miss it. It'd make operating them much easier than typing out "go left!" or something every time you want them to change direction, or stop.

Oh and related, sort of, I think mounted weapons shouldn't have an overheat bar, and should run out of ammo. The mounted SAW's and stuff will be easy to reload, just use the same animations the infantry versions use. Maybe have an ammo counter on the vehicle mounted ones, as some tend to actually have them these days. Maybe not things like cupola mounted stuff but it's in the near future and everything else in the game seems to be the "latest and greatest", so use some small artistic licence, which is also realisc as they do exist (ammo counters).

Mad Max · Post by **Mad Max** » 2005-11-23 14:49

Well the way I suggest would mean you'd only really need 2 people to operate it, just with the 3rd you'd have extra spatial awareness and more protection from infantry and aircraft.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-23 15:00

Guys, you gotta remember, Project Reality is not about PURE realism. Dont get me wrong here, Project Reality IS about making the game a lot MORE realistic, thats for sure. But basically it's more about the overall realistic combat experience. Experience is the key word. Basically the Mod creates a realistic experience with a balance of realism and a logical requirment of gameplay awareness.

What would end up happening if you were to make the tanks require a loader is simple. No one would use it. Or, people would use it and get pissed and stop playing the Mod. We dont want that.

Now IMO, a nice balance for the tanks would be a very logical approach. Tanks obviously require more than one person to operate them. We should divide the Turret controls and Driving into two different positions thus, making tanks require a driver and a gunner.

Now Someone mentioned how another mod utilized a 360 degree view for the Driver to spot targets. IMO, that is very unrealistic. IRL, the only view the driver actually has is out the small windows in the front of the tank just under the turret. At night he has a FLIR screen. But trust me, tanks dont move much at night.

Anyways, I think the driver should have like a 180 degree view radius. 360 is too much. The gunner already has that.

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-11-23 15:39

If having multiple players works the switch time between the stations ( gunner>driver>commander>gunner>etc. ) has to be raised. It takes quite a while to get ready.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2005-11-23 20:29

Mad Max wrote:I'm assuming you meant the M1A2, maybe the SEP, as the A1 isn't so common these days, even among the marines it's becoming a less common sight (although they still have a lot).

Not correct. The Marines do not yet have any M1A2 tanks and the Army only has a couple of battalions of M1A2s. The majority of the US tank force is still the M1A1, but older units are being upgraded to M1A2 SEP status each year (no info on output rate).

GRB · Post by **GRB** » 2005-11-24 00:26

solodude23 wrote:Now my suggestion was a balance between realism and balance, and in many's opinion its a helluva lot more fun. Definantly the better expirience.

Anyway, I said that because, in real life the driver does only have around 140-180 degree view, but the COMMANDER has a 360 degree view in which he can tell the gunner where targets are and so on. Since there is no commander included in the tank, (needing a gunner, driver, and commander seperate would not be as good of an expirience and requires too many people) they should be combined...without a commander to tell you where the bad guys are you would be pretty helpless with a driver having 160 degree view and a gunner with a limited view and a slow moving turret, and this way the driver has more to do than flat out driving. Like you said, its more about the expirience than the complete realism.

Very good point! Now I see where you're comming from. Didnt look at it that way.

As a side note on that, we also have the priscope (CITV scope) that the gunner uses that has many different functions. Im sure the Driver is capabled of viewing this on his monitor as well. So maybe the 360 viewing for the driver isnt as unrealistic as I thought..Plus, like you said, doing it that way will definatly increase the fun factor as well as offer a realistic experience!

I just think if it IS done that way, it should be done realistically by possibly utilizing the periscope on top of the tank and have some sort of HUD or Reticule. Instead of having some magical 360 viewing with no orientation pertaining to the tank..Also, the driver should only be able to view things horizontally.(meaning, no looking up or down really, or not a lot anyways..)

Again, good point man thanks!

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-11-24 01:43

Hmmmm so how about a driver, gunner, commander
driver- drives the tank
gunner- has the main (Can rise up into a mg)
commander - has a mg (Can duck in and see what the gunner sees but cant fire the main gun)