Radar warning

phlerp · Post by **phlerp** » 2005-12-06 00:37

One funny thing about BF2 is that though it's suppposed to be IR seeking missiles on the aircrafts and in the SAMs you get a warning when you're fired upon. It would probably be entirely unplayable if you didn't get this kind of warning though I doubt it.

Let us for a moment pretend that it actually is radar missiles so we can get a warning. It would then be nice to get a different signal depending on what kind of missile it is that has a lock on you. The RWR in modern aircrafts "translates" the radar signal it intercepts to sound that the pilot can understand. Every radar has it's special signature and thus special sound for the pilot. This would be really usefull so I know if it a SAM and I need to get out of the area, or if it is another plane and I need to take evasive maneuvers.

Further it would be a good thing to have a RWR that also gives the direction to the threat. As it is now you only know you're locked and not where it is so you can shoot back or even to know what way to go to avoid the threat. Is this possible to do?

One could argue that this would give the aircrafts and helicopters an edge over SAMs. But that is just a matter of making the aircrafts take less hits to shoot down to get a good balance.

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2005-12-06 01:08

YES!!!!!!!

I completly agree with you, if my name didnt give it away

i love to fly and having this in the mod would definatly make my day

this would make flying so much better.

Now, i gurantee you that someone will come and say planes are too powerful already, but i have my full faith in the PR team that they will come up with some different AA guns and also make them more effective as well, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

But why stop there with EWS, would be nice if planes could also have their jamming features, perhaps make the jamming feature sorta like a much shorter sprintbar, where it would only last for so long and take a while to recover, i know that isnt entirely realistic but i think its the best we can do to manage playability and prevent jets from getting shot out of the sky every d*** sec by peoples "more effective AA"

USAF-Marshall · Post by **USAF-Marshall** » 2005-12-06 01:12

phlerp wrote:One funny thing about BF2 is that though it's suppposed to be IR seeking missiles on the aircrafts and in the SAMs you get a warning when you're fired upon. It would probably be entirely unplayable if you didn't get this kind of warning though I doubt it.

Let us for a moment pretend that it actually is radar missiles so we can get a warning. It would then be nice to get a different signal depending on what kind of missile it is that has a lock on you. The RWR in modern aircrafts "translates" the radar signal it intercepts to sound that the pilot can understand. Every radar has it's special signature and thus special sound for the pilot. This would be really usefull so I know if it a SAM and I need to get out of the area, or if it is another plane and I need to take evasive maneuvers.

Further it would be a good thing to have a RWR that also gives the direction to the threat. As it is now you only know you're locked and not where it is so you can shoot back or even to know what way to go to avoid the threat. Is this possible to do?

One could argue that this would give the aircrafts and helicopters an edge over SAMs. But that is just a matter of making the aircrafts take less hits to shoot down to get a good balance.

I fly the rotary alot, but I have to agree, the buzzer should be removed. You should have to keep moving and looking at your surroundings to survive. Only the missle launcher should get tone. Nothing realistic about hearing the buzzing on a heat seaker.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2005-12-06 02:59

phlerp, those are some pretty awesome, not to mention realistic, ideas you've got there! I'd love to see those put in PR

phlerp · Post by **phlerp** » 2005-12-06 09:22

Any comments from the PR-team about the feasibility of this?

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2005-12-06 11:05

I think that as long as you simply CANNOT look your surroundings during flying effectively (the mouselook and the flight controls are "connected", so if you try to mouselook, the flight controls freeze) removing the buzzer would make it totally unplayable.

I agree, that it's unrealistic to have any alarm for getting locked by an RPG, so as a chopper pilot you should really keep looking around to find any threat in time. I know that the AT class in this game fires ERYX instead of RPG, but I think in RL if someone manage to get close enough to a Black Hawk with an Eryx, and fires, then the chopper will be surely down. You can dodge an RPG, but an Eryx...

Without the buzzer it would be simply a suicide to fly among the buildings with any chopper.

phlerp · Post by **phlerp** » 2005-12-06 11:38

I didn't really advocate the removal of the "buzzer", but rather to give more information to the pilot than just "you are locked by something somewhere".

However, if the missilewarning were to be removed, I do NOT think it would be suicide to fly among buildings in a chopper. But then again perhaps it should be. This would force choppers to behave more like in real life. You simply can not go in without ground support. If you don't have the support (read teamwork) you will have to shoot from a distance, and avoid locations of known AA threats.

Then again, it might simply be a matter of fine tuning to get the proper balance. You can already today be shot down by other choppers with their TV-guided missile or by AT from the ground, all without any warnings. And I don't see anyone complaining about that being a balance problem.

Still no answer from the PR-team about if it's possible to make a decent RWR. Since I've never modded for BF2 (I mainly do flightsims

), I have no idea about what is possible and what is not.

Stargun · Post by **Stargun** » 2005-12-06 12:42

Well, I don't really understand this "ground support" thing.
As fas as I know the Black Hawks are for GIVING SUPPORT for the ground forces, right?

??:
If an enemy lying on the rooftop, then no one can see him from the street, he can be eliminated only from the chopper. What if there're 3 of AT guys on different rooftops in differend directions? They can easily kill a Back Hawk in 5 secs., and the infantry can't help about it.

As long as the pilot can't drive the chopper in one direction while looking to another, it will be unplayable without the buzzer.

We're all talking about reality. But in RL your situational awareness can be way higher, 'cause your perception of the 3D world much better, and can turn your head to any desired direction easily.

I wish to have proper head tracking done in BF2 but I still got no answer from the DICE team nor this Dev Team for my question if it's feasible.

(I have no TrackIR, but succesfully build a very cheap headtracker from a Logitech Quickam webcam , and using the free freelook software from freelook.org.

- Unfortunatelly it's useless in BF2!!!

)

phlerp · Post by **phlerp** » 2005-12-06 13:05

Stargun wrote:Well, I don't really understand this "ground support" thing.
As fas as I know the Black Hawks are for GIVING SUPPORT for the ground forces, right? ??:
If an enemy lying on the rooftop, then no one can see him from the street, he can be eliminated only from the chopper. What if there're 3 of AT guys on different rooftops in differend directions? They can easily kill a Back Hawk in 5 secs., and the infantry can't help about it.

As long as the pilot can't drive the chopper in one direction while looking to another, it will be unplayable without the buzzer.

you are only easy to shoot down in your Black Hawk by AT if you are low and hovering... that is a big no no. That is not the way to use the helicopter. And you do not get any warnings in a helicopter when someone aim at you with AT-weapons. So removeing the buzzer wouldn't make any difference in that situation. But I'm still not arguing that it should be removed, I'd rather see the direction to the threat being displayed to the pilot.

I agree 100% about the situational awarness in BF2 and I've also asked for a feature where you can look around as pilot while still in control of your aircraft... but that is another subject and should be discussed in another thread. http://realitymod.com/forum/t2701-views-in-choppers-and-planes.html

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-12-06 16:25

No sound @ IR missiles. Isn't this a realism mod??

Heydude235 · Post by **Heydude235** » 2005-12-06 23:41

Waset of time dont puti n mod

Resjah · Post by **Resjah** » 2005-12-07 01:46

Heydude235 wrote:Waset of time dont puti n mod

this is definatly NOT a waste of time and should be put in the mod, having an early warning system and different beeps depending on what has locked on to you would help to add realism to planes.

And if adding something for aircraft to help avoid missiles, then you could put in better AA, which is something a lot of people complain about, so its a win win scenario.

To have an RWR would also be awesome, as you would know where that missile came from and act accordingly, all these ideas are great as they add realism to the planes and give them a survivable future if poeples suggestions for AA are put in.

Enforcer1975 · Post by **Enforcer1975** » 2005-12-07 15:41

FlyBoy wrote:this is definatly NOT a waste of time and should be put in the mod, having an early warning system and different beeps depending on what has locked on to you would help to add realism to planes.

And if adding something for aircraft to help avoid missiles, then you could put in better AA, which is something a lot of people complain about, so its a win win scenario.

To have an RWR would also be awesome, as you would know where that missile came from and act accordingly, all these ideas are great as they add realism to the planes and give them a survivable future if poeples suggestions for AA are put in.

In case they add a warning system they have to add radar missiles instead of the IR ones. And limit die countermeasures on aircraft. Everytime you try to lock onto an aircraft all the pilot has to do is drop countermeasures and finish you off. You even are marked on his hud, ridiculous.

phlerp · Post by **phlerp** » 2005-12-07 17:36

I agree that it is kind of stupid that all ground targets are marked in th HUD... But that is a quite different subject.