damage model and reality issues

Jedo · Post by **Jedo** » 2007-09-20 13:39

1. Ok first, I heard some Russians discuss how the tanks in the new version take 4 hits to be destroyed now but that also depends on where you hit. I heard something similar about helicopters. Is that true, how does the system work and another general question: does it reflect reality? I heard somewhere that M1 can take multiple hits from the most poweful missiles, but I've also seen videos of one missile destroying a tank.

2. I remember how annoying artillery was, but I have to think really hard to remember a real life war where there was no annoying artillery hitting positions where the enemy had dug itself in.

3. Parachute. I just read in the manual that if the flight is under 30 seconds you will take damage. Really?? I'm unsure of how long it takes exactly for the parachute to catch the air, but there was a video of a pilot ejecting out of the airplane half a second before the hit. He survived because of an effect that causes the open parachute to slow the man down in an instant jerk before speeding up again. Any plans to implement that?

Post by **Rhino** » 2007-09-20 13:47

1. in BF2 you have diffrent materials for diffrent bits of the model that also set the diffrent amount of damage each material takes. On any real life tank they all have the hard and soft points on the armor. Most commonly the front armor is the hardest/thickest, as its the most likley place the tank will be hit in combat, with the rear armor being the weakest. Bf2 thou has some strange unrealistic dynamics like tanks using a "HP" system so you have to bring its HP down to 0 to kill it, so that could be like 4 hits or w/e in a hard spot. Where in r/l if a tank shell hit your tank in a hard spot, and didn't penetrate you would most likley be able to drive along pretty happyly but that all depends on the type of shell and where it hit. we cant do anything like that with the BF2 engine. also in BF2 tank shells "bounce" if you shoot them ajasient more or less to the bit you are shooting, and if you get it to bounce off 1 bit of the tank, then after it bounces hit anouther bit of that tank thous 2 bounce hits will class as 2 full hits...

2. yes arty is realistic, but we will at one point be having play controled arty with any luck. not any time soon thou.

3. I dont know much on the realism of this subject. try looking it up on google.

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-09-20 13:48

I have a comment on 3.

Yep an ejector seat is going to give you 0/0 survivability, but if you eject near the ground at 300kts you will survive but you sure as hell ain't going to be up and out of that seat at full combat effectiveness straight away.

An ejector seat will decelerate you fast once you are clear of the plane. If you are at near supersonic speeds this deceleration will be around 20G. Even at low speeds the chute opening is going to pull on you at 6-7G.

Having said that, the new system isn't yet perfect IMHO, but it's better than the current (pull chute at 10 feet and land like you stepped off the front porch) system by far.

Red Halibut · Post by **Red Halibut** » 2007-09-20 14:14

Double post sorry

Hardtman · Post by **Hardtman** » 2007-09-20 14:21

Just a question on the tank dynamics:

So, the engine does have different materials on a tank with different damage properties.

So to simulate a shell not penetrating on a hard point, could it be possible to give those parts a damage multiplier of 0? So that a hit at this part would just do 0 damage to the HP?

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2007-09-20 14:57

With regards to 3 do you gradually slow down or do you slow down instantly but take damage? 30 seconds does seem a t bit much though, but then again I know nothing about parachuting other then just watching (I assume some of them sustain some pretty nasty injuries even when they pull their chute at the right time).

On the whole impact damage thing is there anything that can be done about increasing water damage? I can't remember now.

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2007-09-20 21:16

A guy survived a fall from 2000 (i think meters) for like a month ago. He did some weird moves in the air to slow down the fall and survived

Lucky *******

MrD · Post by **MrD** » 2007-09-20 21:40

With a standard soldiers parachute, the landing is a hard one and requires training to try to reduce these injuries. A parachute takes a while to catch air fully, this change in the game makes sense and whilst it may or may not be realistic, it stops people jumping off roofs with their chutes, creating supermen jumping from rooftop to rooftop in a single bound.

1 in 90 parachute jumps is some sort of accident, from chute problems to landing issues that covers scares to injuries to death.

Post by **Dunehunter** » 2007-09-20 21:47

Waaah_Wah wrote:A guy survived a fall from 2000 (i think meters) for like a month ago. He did some weird moves in the air to slow down the fall and survived Lucky *******

Maybe, but I'm rather sure that he had to be hospitalized after that.

Sgt_Canadian_Floss · Post by **Sgt_Canadian_Floss** » 2007-09-20 21:47

I heard that each time you get ejected from an airplane, you lose 1 inche in height
Maybe youll survive but, people are gonna laught at you

zaelu · Post by **zaelu** » 2007-09-20 21:55

1ST,

first post here... so, Hello there!

On the number three issue... I think realisticaly is safe to assume that no helicopter in this game/mod has ejector seats and in the end any means for the crews to save them selves in an event that the heli is crashing or a guy step out of it (unless is still on the ground

) are... missing.

Also, all planes in the game have 0-0 ejector seats which in theory guaranties that the pilot gets himself alive and kicking after an ejection. Ofcourse... at supersonic speeds things will be messy

but, we don't realy have supersonic speeds modeled in the game. Also... any pilot that get's ejected don't really jump on a fight but, this is battlefield...2, c'mon, what's the use of the signaling granade? The place of his bleeding corpse?
I think we could fairly assume that a pilot in those conditions would have close to 100% chances to survive. Heck... he's only got a pistol....

IMHO the jet pilots should be safe on 100% cases of ejecting (it's still a game

), We could attempt to rescue them this way but, the choppers... man... no rookie should attept to fly that full of soldiers.

1qwkdsm · Post by **1qwkdsm** » 2007-09-20 23:03

Then again just beacuse it happened once in real life does not mean it HAS to be in PR. When you come down to it, PR is still just a game and when you start adding all these different freak of nature incidents in an easily replicable enviornment such as video games, you will always get those who abuse and exploit these features, so it's sort of a double edged sword on this. JMHO

Waaah_Wah · Post by **Waaah_Wah** » 2007-09-21 14:44

[R-MOD]dunehunter wrote:Maybe, but I'm rather sure that he had to be hospitalized after that.

Yep

But the weird thing is that he actually didnt get THAT injured

Post by **Katarn** » 2007-09-21 15:18

IRT #1, there were no changes to the tanks in the patch. You were probably hitting a strong material on the tank.

Post by **Paladin-X** » 2007-09-22 00:04

Hardtman wrote:So to simulate a shell not penetrating on a hard point, could it be possible to give those parts a damage multiplier of 0? So that a hit at this part would just do 0 damage to the HP?

Yes that is possible.

Sun Tzu · Post by **Sun Tzu** » 2007-09-22 01:48

Reply to issue 1:

It's going to depend on 1.) WHERE you hit the tank and 2.)what type of ammo you are using. A sabot round is going to be better at armor piercing and the HEAT round is going to better at anti personnel and "soft targets" like buildings and small trucks (Humvees and Vodniks)

Reply to issue 2:

The game is soooo much more fun the way the arty is now. I'm sure it will be addressed in future releases.

Reply to issue 3:

If you have to "eject" from a plane or helicopter the idea is that you are not going to deploy your chute 10 feet above the ground. I know that when the current ACES II ejection seat is activated it is made so that it will eject the pilot from the ground with enough force so that the chute will fully deploy. This is in case of mishaps in taking off or landing. I think though the idea for the 30 seconds is to simulate pilots ejecting at least 1000 feet in the air like they normally would do.

That's just my opinion though.

Jedo · Post by **Jedo** » 2007-09-23 17:45

Sun Tzu wrote:Reply to issue 1:

Reply to issue 3:

If you have to "eject" from a plane or helicopter the idea is that you are not going to deploy your chute 10 feet above the ground. I know that when the current ACES II ejection seat is activated it is made so that it will eject the pilot from the ground with enough force so that the chute will fully deploy. This is in case of mishaps in taking off or landing. I think though the idea for the 30 seconds is to simulate pilots ejecting at least 1000 feet in the air like they normally would do.

That's just my opinion though.

Yes but the space in BF2, even though pretty large, isn't nearly as big as the real battlesky.

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My question to begin with though was not about the realism of the 30 second period but about that sudden slowdown effect at the very beginning of the release of the shute that tends to save you if you release it half a second off the ground.

About 1. Doesn't armor disintegrate after being hit? I mean if the sabot didn't pierce the hard point, didn't it nonetheless do some structural damage (e.a. make the armor more brittle)?

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I have another question since I'm here anyway. I'm having trouble with the sniper rifle. I don't know the effective range of the rifles and thus how high I must aim to compensate for the fall. So what range are the sniper rifles zeroed for?

Post by **Kaijleor** » 2007-09-25 13:00

I am missing the possibility to take out the tanks engine, by hitting it with a light AT in the back or placing explosives there. I am aware that destroying a modern tank isn’t easy, we should be able to cripple it.

Post by **Nickbond592** » 2007-09-25 20:53

sniper rifles are zeroed at 600m