Class limiting or limit revives?

mg_roadster · Post by **mg_roadster** » 2006-01-02 15:26

I have only been playing .2 for a couple of days. And noticed something that was both funny, and annoying at the same time. A specific clan had a squad made up of mostly medics(3 or 4), and every time someone would die they would, at all costs, revive that person. and the squad would survive, almost no matter what. Now, I would like to say, nice team work, but it got really rediculous. You could take out only so many dudes before your ammo totally runs out and they kill you.

I killed 4 with one grenade and by the time I rushed in and was shooting, the whole team was up and gunning again. Even after taking out a couple more, there is only so much you can do. They will just rush in and revive untill they kill you and leave with their squad fully intact. There is no consiquence for their huddled up formations or anything they do. As long as one of them lives, they never lose squad members.

What I suggest, is one of two things: *1. limit the ammount of medics per squad to one.(if possible) *2. limit the amount of times you can be revived to one or two. (again, if possible)

*1. This is very realistic. What army has 3 or 4 out 6 men as medics? None. Or even 2 foe that matter. 4-6 men is considered a fire team and is lucky to even get medic support if away from a 12-15 man squad.(IRL) So I think this would be a good addition if it is possible. I also think you should also limit support kits per squad, but that's another discussion.

*2. I think this is also realistic. you can only get shot up and patched up so much, before your body just cant take any more and throws in the towel. I think one revive per ticket or whatever would be pretty good.

It just seems like there is no penalty for doing reckless things(if you are in a squad of buddies) that you normally wouldn't risk, because there IS no risk to them. Cover or suppression fire becomes useless. and it throws the whole feel of the game off. I know people will continue to find way to take advantage of the games nessessary components to unnaturally fascilitate their survival, but we can bring it to a minimum, by recognizing them and devising ways to stop it.

MG_Roadster (AKA F.N.G.)

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2006-01-02 15:41

Thats perfect, i cannot believe we didn't think about this, Defribrilators are battery powered, so limiting the battery power of a defribrilator means you can't just spam someone on the floor with your defribrilator. Say 5 defribs per minute? Im really quite surprised this hasn't come up before, good call!

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-02 15:58

'[R-DEV wrote:Evilhomer']Thats perfect, i cannot believe we didn't think about this, Defribrilators are battery powered, so limiting the battery power of a defribrilator means you can't just spam someone on the floor with your defribrilator. Say 5 defribs per minute? Im really quite surprised this hasn't come up before, good call!

I and many other ppl have put a similar suggestion about how many snipers and medics ect you can have in a squad

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-02 16:33

'[R-DEV wrote:Evilhomer']Thats perfect, i cannot believe we didn't think about this, Defribrilators are battery powered, so limiting the battery power of a defribrilator means you can't just spam someone on the floor with your defribrilator. Say 5 defribs per minute? Im really quite surprised this hasn't come up before, good call!

Isnt 5 per minute pretty much? That's one every 12 seconds!

I say more like 1 per minute instead, maybe 2. If you run over someone and miss... Tough luck, have to wait for it to recharge.

Post by **Evilhomer** » 2006-01-02 16:46

Rhino wrote:I and many other ppl have put a similar suggestion about how many snipers and medics ect you can have in a squad

Sorry I wasn't talking about that, I was talkign about limiting the number of defribs.

Yes, one or two per minute would suffice!

Eden · Post by **Eden** » 2006-01-02 17:24

There is one problem you have to looks at. You get a lot of medics that just dont heal anyone, basicly, there a medic so they can heal themselfs. Ive seen this a few times medics just wont come to you to heal or revive you.

But that is a minority.

If class limiting was to be put into the game there has to be some sort of way to kick somone from a certain class, but there also has to be something to stop abuse of the class kicking.

Now things are getting complicated.

What you could do is have the squad leader the only one who can kick a class from his squad but what happens if your squad leader is ****?

Make sure you think things through before makeing a suggestion, class limiting is a great suggestion as are a lot of suggestions, but it is more than just class limiting that needs to be takein into consideration here.

ps. i just read your post ^ but I didnt want to waste so many words (and its still relevent to any suggestion anyway).

limiting that ammount of defribs is a good adea, I would go for the 1-2 per minute per persion.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-02 17:26

'[R-DEV wrote:Evilhomer']Sorry I wasn't talking about that, I was talkign about limiting the number of defribs.

Yes, one or two per minute would suffice!

I brung that up in anouther topic aswell

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-02 17:28

Yeah, limiting the classes themselves is pretty tough since it need a support system to avoid abuse.

Which is why I'm still in favor for everyone spawning as different variants of the basic rifleman and having to pick up "special" kits from supply depots. It balances itself. If a SAW user is a poor player he'll die and someone else can get the opportunity to take the kit from the supply (or from his dead body). If he wants to keep the kit... Well, better not die

Trufret · Post by **Trufret** » 2006-01-02 17:42

Having the squad leader control the kits would be good and if your squad leader is a moron then leave and create your own squad if you think you can do better.

you should get at least 2 defibs since you can be right o the guy and the game decides that no you missed him.

jezzzy · Post by **jezzzy** » 2006-01-02 17:57

how about havin a limit on the difib, say 2/min. then after that you have to change the battery pack. and you can only carry about 2 battery packs and it takes like 20 seconds to replace. if you need more battery packs you can resupply via crate or ammobag.done.

mg_roadster · Post by **mg_roadster** » 2006-01-03 00:53

Limit of 2 shocks per minute. That is a cool Idea. Though, sometimes when I play medic, I "miss" the patient, even though I am touching their chest. Sometimes it takes 3 shocks. I see other people having this problem also. Is there some sort of trick to revive every time, that we should know about? Maybe a specific radius that has been shortened, or something?

Maybe, you could shorten the "Critically wounded" time and lengthen the dead time, also. Just an idea.

I still like the limit of classes per squad. If that position is filled in the squad, then go to another one. Or better yet, switch up a little for **** sake. Get good with multiple kits. If someone in your squad has the kit in question, you should be auto-switched to rifleman kit or something.

DEDMON5811 · Post by **DEDMON5811** » 2006-01-03 03:19

Do not limit the usefullness of any player just limit the amount of that class.

If i had to wait between revives then why would anyone even do it say screw it go respawn.

Lifetaker · Post by **Lifetaker** » 2006-01-03 03:24

You're absolutely right Dedmon. I think limitations on numbers of classes should definitely be implimented, but to limit the effectiveness would make the player utterly useless in some situations.

Post by **Ghostrider** » 2006-01-05 09:45

'[R-PUB wrote:Lifetaker']You're absolutely right Dedmon. I think limitations on numbers of classes should definitely be implimented, but to limit the effectiveness would make the player utterly useless in some situations.

I think that when the amount of same-kit players are limited, then the usefulness is in a way "limited" becasue 1 medic wont be able to revive an entire squad by himself when the squad was just gunned down by enemy fire....the medic is bound to get hit and die with 2 - 3 shots...

I think that the limit should only be imposed in the medic, support, sniper, and engeneer kits....aka "Specialty" kits. I think Assault, Anti-Tank, and Spec Ops can be left untouched. Again, I think that limiting the effectiveness of the class wouldnt be a good idea, and at the same time, a kind of balance will come by limiting the number of players with the same kit per-squad....maybe managed by the squad leader as mentioned?

You want more medics? Play in coordination with another squad at once...would be great!

But then again.....imagine 5 squads of 1 medic each....making possible again what the original poster announced... would be bad...

visaya · Post by **visaya** » 2006-01-05 10:33

'[R-PUB wrote:Eden']If class limiting was to be put into the game there has to be some sort of way to kick somone from a certain class, but there also has to be something to stop abuse of the class kicking.

Now things are getting complicated.

What you could do is have the squad leader the only one who can kick a class from his squad but what happens if your squad leader is ****?

Make sure you think things through before makeing a suggestion, class limiting is a great suggestion as are a lot of suggestions, but it is more than just class limiting that needs to be takein into consideration here.

Partly true, but the way we used to do it when someone bad took the sniper in RO. - We yelled at them and told them they sucked - so they would be better next time. Class limits will suffice, then leave it up to the community to get rid of crappy medics.

visaya · Post by **visaya** » 2006-01-05 10:43

Ghostrider wrote:...1 medic wont be able to revive an entire squad by himself when the squad was just gunned down by enemy fire....the medic is bound to get hit and die with 2 - 3 shots...

I think that the limit should only be imposed in the medic, support, sniper, and engeneer kits....aka "Specialty" kits. I think Assault, Anti-Tank, and Spec Ops can be left untouched. Again, I think that limiting the effectiveness of the class wouldnt be a good idea, and at the same time, a kind of balance will come by limiting the number of players with the same kit per-squad....maybe managed by the squad leader as mentioned?

You want more medics? Play in coordination with another squad at once...would be great!

But then again.....imagine 5 squads of 1 medic each....making possible again what the original poster announced... would be bad...

5 squads of 1 medic each is perfect. What do they do in real life? I emailed an ex-marine and found out that for each platoon the navy supplies 1 corpsmen (2 if you're lucky). But factoring in first aid abilities and some gameplay - 1 medic per squad would work in a realistic ratio.

1 medic shouldn't be able to revive his whole squad anyway. Where kit limitations come into play we have the human mind to compensate - use cover and tactics. All kits should have limitations except assault until a basic rifle class is put in. Spec ops do not belong in the game as they would seperate as a different squad to complete different missions which are not available atm.

*Squads should compose of

1x Squad leader - Assault /w Grenade Launcher
1x corpsman (medic) - with the ability to only bandage wounds and stop bleeding. (the limit on defib is also ok with me)
3x Riflemen - Regular AK/m16 without GL
1x Anti tank or 1x MGer

*this is an accurate scale down of a real USMC squad factoring basic first aid training and corpsmen supplied by the navy.
This would make up the mainstay of the platoon, of course you would have a sniper, engineer, etc but wiith realistic ratios applied to different maps.

Post by **Ghostrider** » 2006-01-05 23:17

visaya wrote:5 squads of 1 medic each is perfect. What do they do in real life? I emailed an ex-marine and found out that for each platoon the navy supplies 1 corpsmen (2 if you're lucky). But factoring in first aid abilities and some gameplay - 1 medic per squad would work in a realistic ratio.

1 medic shouldn't be able to revive his whole squad anyway. Where kit limitations come into play we have the human mind to compensate - use cover and tactics. All kits should have limitations except assault until a basic rifle class is put in. Spec ops do not belong in the game as they would seperate as a different squad to complete different missions which are not available atm.

*Squads should compose of

1x Squad leader - Assault /w Grenade Launcher
1x corpsman (medic) - with the ability to only bandage wounds and stop bleeding. (the limit on defib is also ok with me)
3x Riflemen - Regular AK/m16 without GL
1x Anti tank or 1x MGer

*this is an accurate scale down of a real USMC squad factoring basic first aid training and corpsmen supplied by the navy.
This would make up the mainstay of the platoon, of course you would have a sniper, engineer, etc but wiith realistic ratios applied to different maps.

I understand what you're thinking...but I think there is a gameplay problem with your suggestion. If you make every squad like what you said (making it a standard) then there will be unusable classes...which is not acceptable imo.

Taking out Spec Ops I think is also a mistake, as then it will eliminate tactics that many of us (me included) use extensively, which is to create a Special Ops Squad to do "our bussiness".

Obviously, class limiting should only be applied to Medics x1 , Support x2 max., Sniper x1, Engeneers x2 max.; but no Limits impossed to Assault, Spec Ops, or Anti-Tank kits. In My Opinion, this could be a practical way to do it.

I think that another way to go around this would be to add a New Server Option. They could be: Set Standard Squads On; and that would make the standard FireTeam that you mentioned, and if its set to Off, then it could "turn on" the suggestion I just posted.

Its something I think can be useful.

**********************************************************

Another thing Unrelated to this thread. I'm in my fourth year in my Computer Science BA Degree. I'm also interested to know if there is any way I can participate in the development of this Mod, specially in the software coding that area. I'm also looking for the experience of working with software development team, and at the same time contribute to something I like a lot, the experience of the game.

If anyone from the PR Team reads this please let me know in a post, even if it is a negative reply. If by any chance, there's a space, you can let me know so we can comunicate further.

I'll try to check this thread regularly until I find a positive or negative answer to my post.

Thank You,
-Ghostrider
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Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-05 23:57

One idea for spec ops is to turn them into a faction instead of a class. They will have their own medics and other vital classes.

Ghostrider send a PM to Fortnight with your prior coding experience if you are interested in coding.

Post by **Ghostrider** » 2006-01-06 02:08

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']One idea for spec ops is to turn them into a faction instead of a class. They will have their own medics and other vital classes.

Ghostrider send a PM to Fortnight with your prior coding experience if you are interested in coding.

I dont think that transforming Spec Ops in a faction instead of a class would do much for balance...so I wouldnt go with it.

In another note, thx for the info. I'll see when I can send him a PM. Thx

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-06 02:20

This is a seperate thing from balance, its more of an authenticity change. I don't think that there is a real special ops class in a military organization, when they are used it would usually be a whole spec ops unit. However I'm sure that the C4 will still be in the game.