Al Kufrah Oilfields: Single Use Helicopters

[DarthDisco]

For some time now I have wondered about why the two scount helicopters in the Al Kufrah Oilfield map do not respawn. It is the only map I know of that has such an asset. Personally, I do not even find helicopters beneficial in such a "tank friendly" environment. It is far too easy to be taken out by heavy machine gun fire at very long ranges, making the only safe place to fly, up in the clouds, which defeats the purpose of having a fast moving transport helicopter in the first place.

I want to know what the map developers intended by putting the two choppers there. And I think that, in the interest of map balance, they should either be given a respawn time, or taken out entirely.

What do you think?

[Dunehunter]

I like it they way it is now. If you've got a good pilot, they can help you a lot. If you don't, you can still win without it, but it'll be harder.

[Outlawz7]

Yep, non-respawning heli's work well with this map.

[Masaq]

For some time now I have wondered about why the two scount helicopters in the Al Kufrah Oilfield map do not respawn. It is the only map I know of that has such an asset. Personally, I do not even find helicopters beneficial in such a "tank friendly" environment. It is far too easy to be taken out by heavy machine gun fire at very long ranges, making the only safe place to fly, up in the clouds, which defeats the purpose of having a fast moving transport helicopter in the first place.

I want to know what the map developers intended by putting the two choppers there. And I think that, in the interest of map balance, they should either be given a respawn time, or taken out entirely.

What do you think?

Got a couple of points to raise there.

1) The choppers are useful precisely because it's a tank-rich enviroment. If you KNOW where the other team's tanks are, you can make sure that where-ever they go, they're met by your own team's tanks and Heavy AT kits. You can also make sure that your APCs and light armoured vehicles stay well clear of them, and have suitable defences (ie, mines) set up at flags they move towards.

If the recon/observation birds are used from around 300ft (or m?) (not sure what the altimeters read in, in BF2), an observer (sqaud leader, preferably) can use the spotting system and VOIP to alert the team and commander on the enemy tanks' movements.

2) They get taken out by LMG/HMG fire very easily at low heights, yes. So don't fly them low, yes. (You got those points right). Where you messed up there is by seeing them as transport helicopters - they're not, they carry one or two passengers- at best, you can use them for dropping of HAT (as someone else suggested) but in order to deploy HAT usefully you need to be near a tank, and you shouldn't be flying a littlebird anywhere near a tank at low level.

Again, if you use the birds solely for recon and stay up high (250m/ft minimum) and only descend whilst safely at your main base in order to affect repairs, you'll be safe AND useful.

3) The MAPPER intended that each team have the chance to implement realisitic tank-spotting and recon roles onto the battlefield. You're not going to rack up a couple of thousand points spotting all day long, but you WILL be useful and you WILL (assuming that the other team use their bird in the virtually useless attack/transport role that everyone assumes it's there for) provide your team with a MASSIVELY useful asset, if you use it right.

4) In the interests of balance, BOTH sides have one of the birds. If your team pisses away an asset, why should it automatically come back just to balance things out? It doesn't respawn precisely to give one of the teams an advantage if the other team use the asset incorrectly.

What *actually* happens in the majority of rounds is that BOTH teams use the birds incorrectly and you see one wreck lying in the base within 5 minutes of the start of the map, and the other wreck lands in a crumpled heap within the first 20 minutes having been brought down by an APC or tank.

So, in answer to what I think:

If the average Littlebird/Eurocopter pilot on Al Kufrah Oilfields had a smidgen of sense, they'd stay up high, with a passenger in the front seat, with two people in a dedicated "OBSERVATION" or "RECON" squad, (or at worst, flying from within a dedicated "ARMOUR" squad in order to more directly support their team's tanks.

Until that time, I'm going to continue jumping in the whirlybird, buzzing around out of touch from the vast majority of weapons on the battlefield, annoying the hell out of enemy tanks by telling my side exactly where to find them. And I'll do it without having any doing the same against my team, and so I'll continue to provide the team with a big advantage.

If the lack of kills and points from doing this is the bugbear for people who want to fly the mini-birds on the map is the problem, consider this:

-At worst, so long as you survive the map and don't crash- you'll end up with a K/D ratio of 1, which will be better than most of the players on the server.
-If you're a GOOD flyer, you can drop your nose every now and again and strafe a HUMMVV or Vodnik, or some infantry near a RP if you stumble across them. Then you end up with a K/D of more than 1.
-If your passenger (who is doing the spotting) is an engineer and jumps out at the main base every now and again, they'll get repair points.
-If they do this, every time you land them and let them out, you'll get points for transporting someone around the map without dying.
-If your passenger is also the squad leader, they'll get points for you having received those transport points whilst they're close by.
-If your passenger is also the squad leader, you'll get points for having received the transport points whilst they're close by.

I don't fly recon for the points, and you certainly probably won't get many thanks from the team - but it IS quite satisfying to see your name, usually around 5th or 6th on a long round - up near the top of the scoreboard just for doing a useful job.

[CAS_117]

This map needs attack choppers.

[Masaq]

This map needs attack choppers.

Like a hole in the head! It's small and there's little space to manouver. It'd be mass-tank slaughter followed quickly by chopper death.

[Deadfast]

This map needs attack choppers.

That's exactly the last thing it needs.
Kufrah is the only map where I can enjoy some proper tanking without getting wasted by a chopper missile from 2 km.

[CAS_117]

Like a hole in the head! It's small and there's little space to manouver. It'd be mass-tank slaughter followed quickly by chopper death.

This map needs a hole in the head.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

lol

Masaq is right but that theres no accounting for human instinct. The coolest thing to do with a scout heli is to hover 6 feet off the ground (nap of the earth dude ) taking out troops and anything else you can get.


So thats what people do, it is a game after all. The map designer obviously wanted something different and implemented a harsh rule for this reason, on purpose me thinks

Unfortunately theres no cover on this map, so its a bad idea

The lowest NOE flying is by helicopters because they have lower speeds and more maneuverability than fixed-wing aircraft, particularly fast-jets. Helicopers can fly at "tree-top" level, even below the height of surrounding trees where there are clear areas, flying under wires (such as elecricity cables) rather than over them. Attack helicopters can "hide" behind trees or buildings, "popping up" just enough to use their (rotor mast-mounted) radar or other sensors and then exposing themselves a litle more in order to launch their weapons. Escape can then be made by further NOE flying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nap-of-the-earth

[CAS_117]

Meh, the "highway of death" comes to mind.

[fuzzhead]

the map is too small for tanks/helicopters imo

[Madhouse]

its a good map the way it is, adding attack helos would turn it into a vannila-type map

[M.J.Patterson]

they are pickup helicopter kits..

[unrealalex]

Make it respawn twice more after the initial crash. That would balance it out and hopefully deter people from wasting them.

Honestly I'm used to that map without chopper because they always crash somehow. I know you guys think that people should be smart and only good pilots should fly, but it never works that way. People make mistakes, people who aren't good pilots get the chopper before the good pilots too, even good pilots crash. And 99% of the time you get a round without helicopters. I would love to try out those little birds sometime, but I never, ever get to.

Leave less room for realism, and more for errors and fun...

[Dunehunter]

Just takes some skill/practice. I kept a Merlin alive for an entire round on Al Basrah recently (including accidentally pressing E and doing drops in/right near Mosque). On Al Kufrah Oilfields I kept the LB up for nearly the entire match once, until I landed too hard on one of the oil tanks, hit a pipe, and flipped over >_<

[Bob_Marley]

This map needs attack choppers.

Dear sir,
You suck.

Signed,
The people who like tank combat and not those monkeys who refuse to fight on the ground, like real men.

Its virtually the only map where tanks can actually enjoy good tank on tank combat without some joystick jockey coming along and ruining all the fun.

If anything there need to be more maps focusing on tank combat, devoid of heavy air support.

[Outlawz7]

The map's fine as it is and you can get some good tank battles on it without having to go over 1500 m of flat desert only to get TV'd.

[Sabre_tooth_tigger]

Hovering in the littlebird at 460alt I was damaged by the tanks guns