Proper question guys.
Why are there always cries of "leet" or "noob" when the sniper rifle pick ups are concerned?This is a good gun and satisfies a need to lay about and blow folks heads off from a long way away (and just what is wrong with that?).It's used on the battlefield to great effect so why the sniffiness when folks are talking about it on here?
Personally I find it much more elitist (or is that 3117157) when folk slag off anyone that asks a question about these hidden kits,especially when they actually know where the pick ups are situated.The fact that the hidden nature of the kit leads to this behaviour is very 1337 in it's own right.
The "easter eggs" or hidden pick ups are divisive in this way.The sniper rifles are good for folk with lesser machines who can't keep up in close quarter battles when pitted against high end gaming rigs and 100meg connections and can be a devastating addition to a properly run squad.I've heard squad members asking the SL if they can take the shot.That's just like it is in reality ain't it?
Debate.
Why the 1337 attitude to snipers?
-
Jagger
- Posts: 193
- Joined: 2007-09-20 15:52
Why the 1337 attitude to snipers?
"and pray that there's itelligent life somewhere out in space because there's bugger all down here on Earth" 
-
mammikoura
- Posts: 1151
- Joined: 2006-09-19 04:26
having a good sniper in your squad/team is great.
But.. about 99% of the time the sniper really isn't that good. He sits on some hilltop and tries to shoot at enemies and rarely hits. This is what it's like most of the time.
If he can really kill with his rifle, and this would be something like having a kill/death ratio of at least 15 then I can live with him being on that hilltop with his sniper rifle since he is definitely contributing by lowering the amount of enemy tickets left.
But it's definitely not about just killing as many people as possible, though this is what I see most of the time. Sure killing the enemy always helps but for example when I'm a sniper I try to find a good vantage point and then I keep in touch with the commander of the team. I rarely play as a commander but I would imagine that hearing where enemy troops, vehicles etc are would be nice.
Also if sniping in a larger squad you are the guy who can make sure that your squad doesn't get flanked. You are also the guy who can cover your squad mates when they move because you can kill enemies from a very long range.
But the thing is that as a sniper you will almost never capture a flag. So unless that sniper does something else usefull (such as the things I mentioned above) then he is just one man wasted, and not only is he just sitting somewhere he is also preventing someone else getting that sniper kit. And when you have a max of 32 players per team sometimes having a few guys who don't really help you at all can be quite a burden.
That being said, I've seen few extremely good snipers. And when used properly it is one of the best kits in the game. But it's just that a huge majority of players aren't that good with the kit and they just waste it.
But.. about 99% of the time the sniper really isn't that good. He sits on some hilltop and tries to shoot at enemies and rarely hits. This is what it's like most of the time.
If he can really kill with his rifle, and this would be something like having a kill/death ratio of at least 15 then I can live with him being on that hilltop with his sniper rifle since he is definitely contributing by lowering the amount of enemy tickets left.
But it's definitely not about just killing as many people as possible, though this is what I see most of the time. Sure killing the enemy always helps but for example when I'm a sniper I try to find a good vantage point and then I keep in touch with the commander of the team. I rarely play as a commander but I would imagine that hearing where enemy troops, vehicles etc are would be nice.
Also if sniping in a larger squad you are the guy who can make sure that your squad doesn't get flanked. You are also the guy who can cover your squad mates when they move because you can kill enemies from a very long range.
But the thing is that as a sniper you will almost never capture a flag. So unless that sniper does something else usefull (such as the things I mentioned above) then he is just one man wasted, and not only is he just sitting somewhere he is also preventing someone else getting that sniper kit. And when you have a max of 32 players per team sometimes having a few guys who don't really help you at all can be quite a burden.
That being said, I've seen few extremely good snipers. And when used properly it is one of the best kits in the game. But it's just that a huge majority of players aren't that good with the kit and they just waste it.
It is the soldier, not the priest, who protects freedom of religion; the soldier, not the journalist, who protects freedom of speech.
-
Bob_Marley
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 7745
- Joined: 2006-05-22 21:39
Because most of the time (don't get me wrong, there are some ace snipers out there who do the exact opposite of what I'm about to describe) a chap will join your squad, say over VOIP "yeah... I'm going sniper" (Or words to that effect), grab the kit and run off into the hills never to be seen again. The Sniper kit does not naturally lend its self to team work, which can make it (and its users) unpopular with many players.
As for the easter eggs, they're just that. Half the fun is in the finding them.
As for the easter eggs, they're just that. Half the fun is in the finding them.
The key to modernising any weapon is covering them in glue and tossing them in a barrel of M1913 rails until they look "Modern" enough.
Many thanks to [R-DEV]Adriaan for the sig!
Many thanks to [R-DEV]Adriaan for the sig!
-
MrD
- Posts: 3399
- Joined: 2006-05-13 16:21
The problem with many snipers is their propensity to hit glaring moving targets, firing over and over till they drop them.
Whereas they would be better employed picking off SL's, medics and engineers trying to remove mines from the road that are preventing armour coming through.
We even try spotting the enemy for the snipers, a glaring, flashing red dot on their minimap that says "for gawds sake, kill that guy because he's slaughtering us!" but the sniper doesn't look around to see if he can help and continues firing as fast as he can on his own chosen targets, trying to take down a man who will spawn 20m back 30 seconds later.
Whereas they would be better employed picking off SL's, medics and engineers trying to remove mines from the road that are preventing armour coming through.
We even try spotting the enemy for the snipers, a glaring, flashing red dot on their minimap that says "for gawds sake, kill that guy because he's slaughtering us!" but the sniper doesn't look around to see if he can help and continues firing as fast as he can on his own chosen targets, trying to take down a man who will spawn 20m back 30 seconds later.
[R-MOD]Mongolian Dude: AH man, sarcasm is so hard to get across the web, even if we are both british
[R-DEV]Jaymz: That has to be...the most epic response to a welcome thread I have ever seen. [R-CON]Mr.D ladies and gentlemen!
-
Raymond.Reiloff
- Posts: 176
- Joined: 2007-05-17 08:53
perhaps this originates from the fact that the sniper rifle often is asked for or grabbed by people straight from vBF2 which are not yet fully into the PR gameplay...
That leaves him lonewolfing the hilltop and probably loving every minute of his new longrange sight.
I remember when i started playing PR, a British squad i was in made our way behind enemy lines at airport. We had a sniper i the squad which we escorted to a good location (that time a crane) from where he had a great view on the road we had to move up on and let me tell you, he definitely made it easier for the squad to move ahead by pointing out foes and picking them off.
If you have a sniper in the squad make sure that you use him wisely and he will become an asset instead of a burden.
That leaves him lonewolfing the hilltop and probably loving every minute of his new longrange sight.
I remember when i started playing PR, a British squad i was in made our way behind enemy lines at airport. We had a sniper i the squad which we escorted to a good location (that time a crane) from where he had a great view on the road we had to move up on and let me tell you, he definitely made it easier for the squad to move ahead by pointing out foes and picking them off.
If you have a sniper in the squad make sure that you use him wisely and he will become an asset instead of a burden.
-
Farks
- Posts: 2069
- Joined: 2007-01-20 00:08
Snipers can't hide in BF2 due to the engine, which make more serious PR- players avoid the kit coz it's not possible to use it with good tactics. That leaves the sniper to the kids who never had tactics in mind and only wants to play with it for the "coolnes" and also have a scoped weapon for über-headshots.
This post by Mongolian_dude pretty much explain it all:
This post by Mongolian_dude pretty much explain it all:
Mongolian_dude wrote:I personally dislike spec ops because 9/10 the players just want to play BF2 but with more gear. Sniper and spec ops have this lure of 'invisible, silent, deadly, efficient'. The irony of this being, players that chose those kits tend to lack all those attributes at any given time.
The stigmata that snipers are these renaissance lone rangers, with abilities above others and throwing in the odd one liner, is a very attractive prospect to the average male, which we can pretty much blame Hollywood for.
Since the dawn of BF2 and its kin, the SF kit has been the best in the large majority of areas, FACT. This is still quite apparent, if not more so, in other mods like USI and PoE2, where they are still a very dominant kit, with some of the best attributes.
High RoF- Automatic, 30round mag carbines.
High accuracy- Single shot function carbines, miraculously more accurate than the ARs, even when in fully auto, and usually inc. a reflex, holographic or optic sight.
Speed- Longest sprint capability.
Fire power- Ample C4, large radius, allows indirect-low risk attacks, effective against ALL unit types.
Stealth/clandestine abilities- Pack a knife+silence sidearm, which is miraculously accurate. Sometimes the carbine will be silenced also.
Considering the above, SF and snipers are pretty much out for themselves, which can be quit evident, as they are always going after the most powerful piece of tech and hardly ever support the rest of the team.
Try a little experiment.
Go onto a server with a map that has ample aircraft, especially attack/combat.
make a squad yourself (preferably squad 1, as you will get those that just want quick kits and a SL to spawn off of).
What you should notice is that the vast majority of players that request the Marksman-sniper (I use a hyphen to connect the two, as most of these types of players dont distinguish the two as different, and therefore request one in the other's absence) will spawn as special forces and will make little attempt to communicate with the squad.
In the field, an enemy sniper is at more risk than any other soldier, as these types of players will flock(across miles of rugged terrain) towards the distinctive sound of the SR (sniper rifles)
Secondly, the majority of players that request a pilot kit and go on to use the aircraft as their own private tool, will spawn a special forces.
They will sometimes wait and try all that they can to secure it for themselves, regardless of their actual ability to use these assets, or if they lack on board crew, necessary to use the asset to its full potential. This may involve teamkilling others (the LBs usualy, as they are open sided and make an easy TK)
In conclusion, these players are to be avoided if you are in a vulnerable or advantageous position (waiting on a chopper/plane/tank spawn). Furthermore, it is recommended that you avoid from having these players along side you, if you wish to have an effective and supportive squad.
However, todays lonewolf is tomorrow's Squad leader. It is undeniably beneficial to yourself and the PR community to take some time aside in a round and show them how PR differs to other mods, and how teamwork is the most effective and fun method to enjoy the Mod.
...mongol...
-
NYgurkha
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: 2006-12-01 00:12
i have never seen a sniper being used properly. Ive seen a marksman work really well in tandem with a squad but thats it (i can fondly recount a round in Ejod with a Marksman in my squad).
I don't even care about those kits, its like they don't even exist. It gets taken seconds into the game by some 1337 player who spends the rest of the game in some corner of the map far away from anything strategic. It never factors in like any of the other kits. A basic assault kits is more valuable to me and my squad.
I don't even care about those kits, its like they don't even exist. It gets taken seconds into the game by some 1337 player who spends the rest of the game in some corner of the map far away from anything strategic. It never factors in like any of the other kits. A basic assault kits is more valuable to me and my squad.
-
*spacecadett*
- Posts: 337
- Joined: 2006-11-23 16:50
How to use a sniper rifle correctly!
What pisses me off about this kit is when i'v asked for a specific kit lay out, and some ****** bag goes and requests this kit(the sniper kit), wich is of no use for the plan at hand.
Most people that tend to snipe usulay dont ask if the kit is needed or not they just request it and go camp somewhere, my negative attitude comes from multiple bad experiances and there are aot more of them then good ones.
i'd rather have 6 guys working togehter faceing danger then beeing coverd by some dude, from 200m out.
How to use a sniper rifle correctly!
What pisses me off about this kit is when i'v asked for a specific kit lay out, and some ****** bag goes and requests this kit(the sniper kit), wich is of no use for the plan at hand.
Most people that tend to snipe usulay dont ask if the kit is needed or not they just request it and go camp somewhere, my negative attitude comes from multiple bad experiances and there are aot more of them then good ones.
i'd rather have 6 guys working togehter faceing danger then beeing coverd by some dude, from 200m out.
How to use a sniper rifle correctly!
-
Sadist_Cain
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 2007-08-22 14:47
Exactly. Snipers are never used properly and usually youll see someone spawn with spec ops, request sniper if they cant have that then theyll request marksmen.
Of course we'll all search for the barrat (especially on ghost train
anyone know the trigger? 
) but its folk who have been posting endlessly on these forums searching for it, the guys who join a busy game to waste time with "anyone know the "trigger" "anyone know what I mean when I say the "Trigger"? YES now piss off!
Now occaisionally youll get a marksman that works well, hell stick near the squad and pick off those targets that come into his view. hardly ever see a worthwhile sniper.
If I'm sniping I'll be a verrry long way away, never on a hill crest. now for example on mestia. I was watching west tower, I could see over to storage bunker if they started moving on that. I would watch those approching west tower from the west and Subsequently I could let my whole squad know where theyre coming from, how many and what theyre doing. My squad can then react whilest also eying the area I can't see. If I choose to make A shot I make sure itll be a guarenteed kill if I can. as a sniper you should get used to seeing people walk past your scope, inform the squad of them and let them go.
Several problems with shooting lots, 1st you miss lots and it destroys the whole fear effect a sniper has that if you sit still youre dead. 2 It helps the enemy to figure out your firing arc and therefore find their cover, thisll also result in them pinpointing you location eventually.
Now if the enemy dosnt know where you can/cant shoot and you know youre up against a full squad let a few wonder into cover then when they move out of it a lil, shoot them a caouple of times in the legs. Hopefully hell either be injured or critically wounded... wait for the medic to come for the revive, Headshot
Snipers have the ability to recon the enemy and if need be disperse and entire unit with a few well placed shots. You'll always find better results, if youre aiming at a squad, if you do a headshot on the SL or medic then stay silent. you should notice the whole squad will get up and run, since youre well trained youre not firing all the time, so they cant tell if they'ere in cover or not. give it a lil bit wait for them to calm down and still... headshot.
Camoflauge is a hard thing to do in bf2 because of the draw distance of the grass. I know that in delta force youd sink ever so slightly into the terrain to recreate a grassy effect, possible in PR? however some key points for camo are:
1.dont run out in the open being seen for a split second is enough to screw you for life
2.dont lay on a hill crest, hill saddles are a good spot.
3. try to keep some form of foliage behind you (trees are best since bushs wont draw) its far harder to see the outline of your head against tree leafs than a big blue sky.
4.COMMUNICATE! with your squad on the ground let them know where the enemy is and theyll let you know where they need you. working with the support gunner is useful aswell. Being a support gunner means he can funnel the enemy towards you, shut off the areas you can see and provide lotsa noise to disguise your shots
See what I'm getting at here? an effective sniper can be an extremely useful tool, a vbf2 sniper tends to be a wasted kit
OK essay done
Of course we'll all search for the barrat (especially on ghost train
anyone know the trigger? ) but its folk who have been posting endlessly on these forums searching for it, the guys who join a busy game to waste time with "anyone know the "trigger" "anyone know what I mean when I say the "Trigger"? YES now piss off!Now occaisionally youll get a marksman that works well, hell stick near the squad and pick off those targets that come into his view. hardly ever see a worthwhile sniper.
If I'm sniping I'll be a verrry long way away, never on a hill crest. now for example on mestia. I was watching west tower, I could see over to storage bunker if they started moving on that. I would watch those approching west tower from the west and Subsequently I could let my whole squad know where theyre coming from, how many and what theyre doing. My squad can then react whilest also eying the area I can't see. If I choose to make A shot I make sure itll be a guarenteed kill if I can. as a sniper you should get used to seeing people walk past your scope, inform the squad of them and let them go.
Several problems with shooting lots, 1st you miss lots and it destroys the whole fear effect a sniper has that if you sit still youre dead. 2 It helps the enemy to figure out your firing arc and therefore find their cover, thisll also result in them pinpointing you location eventually.
Now if the enemy dosnt know where you can/cant shoot and you know youre up against a full squad let a few wonder into cover then when they move out of it a lil, shoot them a caouple of times in the legs. Hopefully hell either be injured or critically wounded... wait for the medic to come for the revive, Headshot
Snipers have the ability to recon the enemy and if need be disperse and entire unit with a few well placed shots. You'll always find better results, if youre aiming at a squad, if you do a headshot on the SL or medic then stay silent. you should notice the whole squad will get up and run, since youre well trained youre not firing all the time, so they cant tell if they'ere in cover or not. give it a lil bit wait for them to calm down and still... headshot.
Camoflauge is a hard thing to do in bf2 because of the draw distance of the grass. I know that in delta force youd sink ever so slightly into the terrain to recreate a grassy effect, possible in PR? however some key points for camo are:
1.dont run out in the open being seen for a split second is enough to screw you for life
2.dont lay on a hill crest, hill saddles are a good spot.
3. try to keep some form of foliage behind you (trees are best since bushs wont draw) its far harder to see the outline of your head against tree leafs than a big blue sky.
4.COMMUNICATE! with your squad on the ground let them know where the enemy is and theyll let you know where they need you. working with the support gunner is useful aswell. Being a support gunner means he can funnel the enemy towards you, shut off the areas you can see and provide lotsa noise to disguise your shots
See what I'm getting at here? an effective sniper can be an extremely useful tool, a vbf2 sniper tends to be a wasted kit
OK essay done
Last edited by Sadist_Cain on 2007-12-13 13:22, edited 1 time in total.
-
Outlawz7
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 17261
- Joined: 2007-02-17 14:59
*spacecadett* wrote: How to use a sniper rifle correctly!
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8918 ... 012az1.jpg
Hah, the Hx. squad still has x3 the points than yours
I never like using the sniper kit, because I often find myself in situations, where the sniper rifle is the last thing I need.
On one round of Daqing, I was really bored so I picked up a sniper kit from a dead guy, who wasted 4/5 clips and there was still tons of enemies around. I resupplied myself the ammo, then knowing, I'm uselss in CQB I went off near the US Town, but far enough so i couldn't see in their base. I spotted out a RP and managed to snipe 3 people spawning on it and a friendly engy came around, got killed 5 m next to the RP and no one else bothered to take it out.
I stopped shooting the enemies that spawned there, since there was no use and noticed another guy picking up a sniper kit from that RP. I later heard the guy on the highest point of the smoke stacks at Refinery (:roll
, managed to get a shot on him, he was wounded but not dead, he crawled around and I shot him from 400 m in the head. I kept looking around, if anyone is coming near me and some other guy joined my squad, told him that there could be enemies around, as someone spotted a squad near me, I crawled and saw a rifleman and just as I got a shot on him, I got teamkilled by the other sniper.
Told the squaddie to pick up my kit and have fun, just as the friendly sniper teamkills him as well.
Yesterday on Kyongan Ni, I went with TG Crawlingeye in a Scout squad, we intercepted an enemy co truck, I got killed so I spawned back as engineer, just as Crawling invites another guy with the sniper kit. The sniper hides right next to at least 2 squads, that spawned there and of course they kill him. I waited until they all left, blew up the truck and the firebase, knifed an officer, picked up his kit, knifed a RP and shot the guy who picked up the sniper in the back. I went for his kit and came under heavy friendly fire and told them to stop shooting. I started running again and all of a sudden I get teamkilled and 25 seconds later someone else comes to pick up my kit...
I went again as engineer, raped the Outpost, where USMC had a bunker and co post, then their commander rebuilt all that stuff, spawned another truck and went on the same spot to build a firebase yet again.
I sneaked in and was like 10 m away from certain enemy players, yet no one noticed me. I crawled under the co truck then a friendly Nanjing came, started shooting at the truck, so I legged it, then the .50 cal gunner starts shooting in my direction and teamkills me as well. It just happens to be the same guy who Tkd me before. He also didn't apologize both times and just went on, like nothing happened
-
NYgurkha
- Posts: 1545
- Joined: 2006-12-01 00:12
-
$kelet0r
- Posts: 1418
- Joined: 2006-11-15 20:04
-
Rico11b
- Posts: 900
- Joined: 2006-05-23 20:36
-
=XE=Grimm
- Posts: 60
- Joined: 2007-10-02 15:07
I`m new to PR but not to BF2. I love squad based tactical playing and CAN snipe, said by others not myself. Still I`v only played with that kit for 6 minutes and have a poor 3/3 score whilst in BF2 I have a 2016/973 and I`m playing BF 2 for couple of months.
The thing is, how am I supposed to show people in the servers that I can benefit them with sniping when I can barely get a hold of the kit? How can I prove them that I can help while playing if they constantly kick me out of squads because of the fact I`m new in PR.
At some point, kit restriction is good, put 2 sniper kits on a 32 players in the team, cmon. If it was limited to one player in a squad, I could live with that but this way after some PR playing I have to go back to regular BF2 just to snipe before I`m done playing.
The thing is, how am I supposed to show people in the servers that I can benefit them with sniping when I can barely get a hold of the kit? How can I prove them that I can help while playing if they constantly kick me out of squads because of the fact I`m new in PR.
At some point, kit restriction is good, put 2 sniper kits on a 32 players in the team, cmon. If it was limited to one player in a squad, I could live with that but this way after some PR playing I have to go back to regular BF2 just to snipe before I`m done playing.
"Death from a far..."
-
*spacecadett*
- Posts: 337
- Joined: 2006-11-23 16:50
i suggest either stating that your new to the game and learning the basics (rifleman, medic, engi) and prove your qualitys with these kits and shoving that your gameplay is very TW oriented, By proving yourself as a good teamworker and a mature player that can follow orders ´, i recommend asking your SL for permisson to use this kit!
your SECOND option, create a recon squad where you and a buddy with a mic(him beeing the sl) can spot for you. this way you are a sniper team and you can cover squads, areas, ect.
Don't allways rush for a sniper kit in the begining of rounds as they are bound to re-apper later on.
your SECOND option, create a recon squad where you and a buddy with a mic(him beeing the sl) can spot for you. this way you are a sniper team and you can cover squads, areas, ect.
Don't allways rush for a sniper kit in the begining of rounds as they are bound to re-apper later on.
-
Sadist_Cain
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: 2007-08-22 14:47
-
MadTommy
- Posts: 2220
- Joined: 2006-05-23 11:34