Snipers hide

[Sadist_Cain]

OK here goes.

Sniper Hide.

Has to be 200m from a neutral/enemy cp.
Deploys like a rally point needs a sniper +1 solider of any kind to deploy
gives ammo + healing (to simulate having a more advanced medic pack

Ok so when real snipers are in action they work in pairs and they set up a hide a way away from where theyre shooting, theyll keep all their gear back at that hide so they can go out to their spot and only need to take a canteen of water.

My thinking is by making it so that if you have another soldier with a sniper and it sets up a hide it might encourage folk to spot more.

Many folk have mentioned a spotter kit, if ever one is made it could be requested only at the hide A spotter would carry a laser designator and a set of high powered optics.

Another thought I had was to make it so when the sniper dies, his gun goes back to the hide for 30 secs before the whole lot is detoryed. this way another soldier can get the gun and resumse the position.

As for the troops defending theyll know they have a real sniper on them cos the fire wont stop.

[Doc_Frank]

Your idea reminds me of supply crates. Otherwise snipers don't carry a hospital and an ammo factory with themselves, you know...

[Outlawz7]

In short: a rally point for Mr. L. Wolf?

[MrD]

Working in pairs as a squad you will be able to hopefully get an ammo crate supplied to you at a distance away from where you are going to fire from.

Currently a squad can have upto 3 ammo crates in place at any one time, order a 4th and the first blows. I often ask for them to be dropped away from where I am going to attack from or setup an RP to prevent the enemy figuring out where I am, I also drop them in areas to attract enemy out to it, when I'm leading a squad nowhere near there, entering their houses and stealing all their sweets.

[Sadist_Cain]

*sigh* first off the amount of ammo resupply and healing that can be obtained from the hide can be limeted, snipers dont carry ammo factorys but they do still carry ammo. if you read I dont mention anywhere having them respawn on the hide, thatd be stupid. but if you have a place where a sniper and his spotter can get ammo and "use" a field medic kit.

Instead of a sniper being a plank who ambles out on his own, runs out of ammo or gets killed. He could be someone who ambles out as a pair sticks down a hide with spotter, and operates as a long standing effective sniper, then get killed .

it would have more benefit if sniper kits were given a lot less ammo, neccessetating (I cant feggin spell ok) them to need a spotter to stick with them to keep them working.

Not a rally point for lone wolf, a way to stop lone wolf being lone + with very limited ammo off the hide so he cant just borrow a rifleman, set up shop and stay there. They'll have to move together from place to place the spotter will need to protect the sniper as they move. is it possible to make it so you have to move 100m away from your last Hide?

I mean to make snipers as ineffective as possible without a hide + spotter. true you can have supply crates but theyre very obvious from the air. yes you can still have a sniper who will just rearm off of that, but methinks the guys who learn to use the hides with riflemen will be more effective

[*spacecadett*]

so snipers can be even more leet... come on, how many times have you seen a sniper kit been used correctly, and your own experiances dont count...

system is fine the way it is! just use a rifle man as a spotter.

[Sadist_Cain]

so snipers can be even more leet... come on, how many times have you seen a sniper kit been used correctly, and your own experiances dont count...

I can count them on one hand, cos atm any kid runs out with a sniper kit sits alone. READ. If its possible can the sniper be given just a full gun with no extra clips to start off with? that way he will have to set up his hide in order to arm upand restock his ammo (maybe just 1 or 2 extra clips) How does that make him more "Leet"?

system is fine the way it is! just use a rifle man as a spotter.

You literally just said when have you ever seen a sniper kit used correctly. well obviously like I said hardley ever, insinuating that perhaps it isnt fine the way it is cos if its project reality which lotsa people seem to forget. Then a sniper shouldnt be able to operate with any effectiveness unless he has a spotter with him.

As the spotting system has been changed you could add a radio to the hide, allowing snipers to right click and spot armoured targets on the map (which in the new system they can't do, which seems odd as it's their main job)

Yes ok we all know that a big red dot isnt going to appear on the map if a sniper spots a tank, but he would give out a precise grid reference basically giving the same effect (we just dont have the training to do it).
So hed run back to his hide, get onto his radio and report to his SL on the locations of enemy tanks. bear in mind he only has the right click spot, so if a target is moving then he will only be able to give its previous position. again like REALITY.

why's everyone so quick to be a ? forgetting about the game aspect of everything (waaah I wanna keep the minimap) this mod is called Project Reality and seems its goal is that.

REALITY http://science.howstuffworks.com/sniper1.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper#Snipers_in_warfare

http://home.swipnet.se/sniper/sniper/download.htm

^^US armys sniper field manual

Snipers Don't work alone however in PR all they do is that, everyone will whine about how they act so l33t yet any mention to change their kit is met by a brick wall. yet everyone seems up to have the sniper rifle removed reality

[darkNight]

Your idea reminds me of supply crates. Otherwise snipers don't carry a hospital and an ammo factory with themselves, you know...

Yeah that's unrealistic...

[MrD]

true you can have supply crates but theyre very obvious from the air

You been reading the Devs journals?

[Sadist_Cain]

Yes I do I see nothing funky about the supply crates there but if its this thing http://guide.realitymod.com/index.php?t ... y_menu.gif
(everyone says theyve rtfm yet no one seems to have seen that

Where the support truck/helicopter drops off a supply crate? if its that then jesus... how many times do you see a truck driving to the front lines to rearm a LONE (cos he dosn't need a spotter :roll sniper?
If it aint that then good

All I'm saying is this is meant to be as close to reality as possible, where it isnt close to reality you need to attempt to make is as close. as I said before snipers wandering around with full stocks of ammo by themselves ISN'T REALITY being FORCED to have a regular soldier with him takes away that whole lone wolfness and if the hide only gives him as much ammo as the kit currently has then that makes the need for the sniper TEAM LIKE IN REALITY to move and change position which they dont do now(100m from last hide) to put another hide down and so on...
*rips hair out*

How about I just say that the sky is blue to see the hail of folk saying "hmmmm welll really it could be called grey"

Your idea reminds me of supply crates. Otherwise snipers don't carry a hospital and an ammo factory with themselves, you know...

"Dammit man I told you not to fit an ammo factory to the landrovers and APCS!" Open your mind's before your mouths

[*spacecadett*]

this can all be done with a squad of 2, sniper and rifle man. making the rfile man spotter and sl he can mark the targets with move markers relay armour ect positions to the CO, and should be able to spot them aswell(dont remeber if it works).

the current system is fine beacuse with your suggestion i only see more exploits and posibilitys to wrongfully use the assets that you suggested.

what makes you thing a snipers hide would change gameplay, if the current system dosent work for the supersniper kids out there, why should this be any diffrent?
granted it would help the few that can and know how to use this kit, but its alot of changes for a handfull of people...

i think, the reason nobody cares about this kit is that it isent all that great, most of the stuff the sniper can do can be done by a rfileman or spec op or somthing similar, i just think the game was built more to be a good teamwork mod while emploring as many reality aspects as possible, while not completly ruining gameplay.
instead of a sniper mod.

this is not a flame, its a healthy discussion, right?

[Sadist_Cain]

I do agree on that the SL can act as a good spotter, however ammo off of crates etc. just tends to encourage lone wolfing. + using a SL as spotter takes him away from a squad he could be leading and setting up rally points.

the current system seems to work towards just letting anyone have and use a sniper rifle (of course we cant have to have training but you see what I mean) theyll sit in the hills, if youre lucky theyll spot a thing or 2 then died

With spotting fiddles and other such things in 0.7 I think SL will be under enough pressure without the added "minigame" of playing spotter to someone.

Think about if the system is changed in a way Like I've suggested and given a team radio back at his hide and perhaps a spotter kit made available from the hide that allows the spotter to use the radio too.
With the new spotting system the sniper will actually become useful youll have a team full of soldiers who cant spot and only Sls who can spot + use teamwide radio.
Then someone has a sniper kit that's pretty useless until youve set up the hide then thats a pair of team members who can now spot enemy armour for the whole team, NEEDS a spotter to carry on working effectively and can't just decide to grab sniper kit run into a hill and shoot some heads.

I dont mean to get Irate just ppl seem to always jump to conclusions and say summin sucks rather than ponder it and think how it can be changed

EDIT: thinking further make a spotter kit requestable from the Hide. Only the spotter would be allowed to use the hide radio to right click spot hostiles, the sniper can still right click and spot but only the spotter can see it (if this isnt possible to code then just make the sniper unable to spot) this way you can have an effective reason for people to be a spotter for the sniper and you can still have a full squad operating with rally points.
Like I said if snipers cant just pick up the kit run to the hills and shoot stuff from far away then itll massively discourage any smacktards into the kit after using it once. for those who do grab a rifleman theyll get their hide down, the rifleman could request a spotter kit:
Ghilli suit
High Zoom scope (barret style, something more powerful than the snipers scope)
binocs
2x field dressings
Small side arm (maybe pistol, maybe summin meatier)

the two can then use a teamwide radio as the sniper can be in one place with eyes on the flag spotting things (along with the spotter) to which the spotter can back out and relay the positions back to the whole team via their radio in cases where perhaps the SL is in a firefight on the ground by the flag. Sniper and spotter work together to get enemy positions broadcast on radio to the team and the squad is saved by the recon done by the sniper team summin not possible with the current situation.

After all snipers are supposed to be independant but they do always work in pairs. I definately think this system would give rise to snipers being unable to operate without a spotter. when with a spotter and with a hide down a sniper team now has a lot more potential to help the TEAM instead of killstacking for themselves (I mean thats a lot of effort to just camp and killstack) if more extreme situations the Snipers can have the sl talk over voip to the CO to coordinate another squad to take out some armour for example but this dosnt mean the SL is acting soley as a snipers spotter, hes leading a squad and has a pair in the hills doing recon for the whole team also watching his back (remember the SL can also spot targets for the sniper and call in his fire)

[markonymous]

i suggested a 2 man sniperkit once but everyone was all like who wants to be a snipers ***** a.s.o

[Thunder]

rifleman could request a spotter kit:
Ghilli suit
High Zoom scope (barret style, something more powerful than the snipers scope)
binocs
2x field dressings
Small side arm (maybe pistol, maybe summin meatier)

with this idea bolted on to the hide, i give it a big fat no.
snipers are realistic, but how they are used in game are not and your ideas give far too many options for the sniper to be exploited

[BloodBane611]

This would put a huge emphasis on the sniper class, a class which neither needs or deserves emphasis. There are a lot of neat ideas out there, but they all must be viewed within the framework of a balanced, enjoyable game.

[Doom721]

Know how to make a 2 man squad, relocate, rearm your own ammo packs in a rifleman / sniper team?

Seriously the last thing we need is snipers making they're own little ammo bushes with free health packs inside

I have done JUST fine working with spacecadett as the sniper and or spotter and rearming my own packs and field dressings for us - the last thing you want is to encourage snipers to "build a camping spot" let alone have one, its ridiculous...

Its like setting up a tent with all your gear putting down your bipod and saying "yeah ill snipe everyone from here" ......

They should demand getting support from one other person, not some "item" that is placed on the field because hes a sniper..........

Imagine the people who are just going to camp X hill with a freaking tent if this was implemented >.>

It discourages relocating your spot if you have been spotted, something you should do after you take fire or engage someone in CQB

Just because someone is an SL doesn't demand they need to set an RP down to magically be good, 2 man squads who work together work just fine when sniping I don't see why we need to give them a magic "hide"

If your a sniper and your taking multiple shots and getting hit from afar repeatedly and you need to run to X location OVER AND OVER to heal / rearm then your doing something wrong or the area is too hot....

If I hear one more "sniper or spec ops should have X more gear / this option / parachutes / more weapons / a dm rifle and a sub machine gun / spec ops grenades back / c4 back" I swear.... the kits are fine >.<

[Sadist_Cain]

seems you cant mention anything bout snipers these days without a load of **** about how you're trying to exploit them and make them better

READ The idea is that a sniper wont be able to work at all unless he gets his rifleman to spot with him and make a hide, when the hides ammo is expended he cant get any anywhere else, he has to move, with his spotter in his team to set up another one.
He cant get ammo anywhere but there, and he needs it in the first place to get ammo.

So how is it exploitable to make a duracell bunny unable to join a server request a sniper kit and bugger off to be davey crockett in the woods by himself. The fact that a couple of guys who play together (one of whom tests PR) Know how to use the kits properly makes absolutly no arguement, I'm talking about the guys who dont use a kit due to a language barrier or some sort of mind block that makes the ignorant to common sense "uuuhhh why do I need a spotter with me??" I cant be bothered to explain why (in a thread like this...) every time, itd be much better if he just needed to have it.

ok so what if we leave snipers acting as rambos charging up to an apc for ammo in the middle of combat. only snipers I know of that are allowed to work alone are the SAS. It's ridiculous how There's a kit that is of no teamwork merit whatsoever unless its used by two devoted teamplayers and you can do that in ANY game. Yet any suggestions towards sniper kits are met with this same brick wall.

Snipers work in pairs, snipers operate from hides in REALITY. It is Project REALITY and its focus is on TEAMWORK, two words that currently dont mix with a sniper who just picks up and and runs to the hills with his n00b cannon. thats not how things work or are ever allowed to work irl so the game should have some sort of system to make it so.
Also the new spotting system greatly limits the abilities of soldiers to communicate enemy positions.
Thats what a sniper is used for! Communicating enemy positions! you cant take that away from them, then its going to be even woooorse :'(
Dont give a dam if you and your buddies can get together and talk to each other to spot enemies as soon as a new guy/none teamplayer/non english/no mic walks in it all falls apart, and theres usually several of those on each server, mention a spotter to them theyll just stare at you and never grasp why they need one (unless they need to have one ). give them a spotter kit with laser designator and a radio to communicate armour positions to the CO and infantry positions to the SL then theres a reason for a spotter and then finally a sniper and his spotter can actually contribute to the team by doing what?

:O well by working together (because they cant do anything but. They need their hide as they only have a few rounds)

By spotting enemy armour targets on teamwide radio (important targets communicated very quickly up the chain of command)

Spotting less important infantry targets for his SL and team operating far on the ground (again with the new spotting system information on the enemy seems like it will be scarce, therefore communicating it back to the CO will be very important, more often than not a squad will be to engaged to contantly provide updates on enemy movements... well hmmm whats a sniper for?)

and on the odd occaision that it is required the spotter could use his laser dez maybe for a JDAM or something along those lines... (then again maybe not) you could have a way of limiting their requests or letting the CO know that the request is from a sniper team. this way a CO can decide hmm maybe I wont give it to them because my squads need it more.

Dont care how great experienced players who know each other can get together and play in their solid community, you could do that in counter strike if you really wanted to. the point is to make it so that snipers are totally uneffective unless used properly (which they never bloody are! half the time youve got a lotta newbies and maybe some language barriers and always a lack of microphones, so it isnt always perfect!)
This way it dosnt matter if youre a squad from a load of different frigging planets you cant snipe unless you use a spotter and construct a hide, only then will you be able to arm up (only with an extra couple of clips bear in mind, if that..) you can be effective for a short period of time before the ammo is gone and you HAVE TO move like real snipers do. jeeeez how does that let anyone camp a spot??? giving them an assload of ammo a free sniper kit plus unlimited resupplies dotted across the map, thats how you can frigging camp.

Christ I'm not offended if you dislike my thoughts on what a hide should do but this is an important thing that needs sorting (if you dont wanna have to make a hide etc etc. then be a marksman) why is no one interested in that? why not contribute some of your own thoughts as to how we can make a sniper work effectively for the team as a pair with a spotter, without being able to constantly camp, alone, with endless ammo everywhere.

Great that there are guys who want to, choose to and can play sniper and spotter like IRL in 0.6 However right now you have nowhere near the teamwide communcations snipers have in relation to the standard grunt irl and in 0.7 a rifleman spotter will be next to useless without any Q spotting, no teamwide radio and therefore a constant reliance on the SL for spotting and getting ANY info (even a tank dot) to the team (isnt he busy enough?) As for SLs being spotterstis good and close, but they dont have the Ghilli and its just another locked squad with 2 loners in it, never good.

Perhaps theres your standard guy who just likes getting the sniper kit and buggering off alone. with the system hell be outta ammo and pretty much screw in no time...

Lets pretend maybe another guy who dosn't wanna play in the team will follow him for a hide. Ok so off they go alone ( :O :O :O the l33t campers them!), they set up a hide. ooo they radio in a tank approching from behind enemy lines. Squad 4 needed to know this cos they got a H-AT... tank takes a hit and is pushed back.
Sniper shoots engineer approching the tank (he has to be far away from CPs with his hide, so he cant charge in and attack thatd be silly).
Game goes on a lil, snipers spots enemy squad far ahead in the trees. calls it in to the SL who has two choices: to attack the hostiles himself, or let the CO know. SL chooses to attack, the sniper spots the squad sneaking behind them and can use squad (not team) radio to let his guys know whats coming (all of this is happening with the spotting, no words) SL requests the APC support of another squad.. it dosnt happen tis a pub game after all

oh and the two lone wolfies have all of a sudden started to seriously contribute to the team not by choice but by requirement of the way the kit works (the only way with some folk) and it is an enjoyable result for all involved. as for those being sniped do you think that real squads whine about "camping snipers" NO (well yes, but its more frantic shouting then whining) a sniper is usually a hard dug in enemy who is difficult to overcome has the ability to call in support, provides foreward recon for the bigger army and is a real obstacle and a threat to all of your forces. Not only does a sniper have the ability to pin down infantry forces with great effectiveness and render entire squads useless with two shots to the medic and SL he is also and extremely large problem for the enemy. As the enemy come under fire from a sniper they now know that Potentially all of their forces have been spotted, uh oh (what a sniper can do, not a lone rifleman ambling around alone). A sniper isnt a twat who decided he wanted to play with the cool scope today by himself, which is what he is and more importantly is allowed to be in most games.

You can make a mod called project reality, yet any mention of increasing realism seems met by a brick wall, especially when snipers are concernced, its **** the way sniper work right now!
Saying I'm wrong my Idea wont work and is too exploitable, ok abandon it. What I think I'm gonna go do now is join the army, pick up a sniper kit without any training walk out into a field by myself and headshot some Insurgents I shall then bravely run into town to gather ammo off of an enemy car or perhaps with some luck a passing rifleman will throw me some ammo! .
Obviously we can't make every player go to sniper school to use that kit However we CAN make snipers do these things in order to have any real effectiveness:

• work in pairs
• provide important and (in 0.7) scarecly available reccies ( Right click Q spots on enemy armour for the team from the spotter, right click infantry spots for the squad from the Sniper)
• call in heavy fire support up the chain of command if need be
• set up a hide from which they will grab spare magazines and keep back a field medic kit
• move positions across the battlefield without staying in one place for too long

Seems too dam wierd that everyone is so happy in a reality mod with a sniper kit that is never used properly, already hugely exploitred by vanilla newbies. and aside from the fact of it having some large teamplay benefits and fun when your online with some buddies when its used properly, there is NOTHING to make anyone use it properly, so folk never do.

Anyone please fancy making a useful suggestion as to how we might be able to have a system that forces the more realistic employment of the sniper kit? (preferably without wasting a squad SL and without locking yourselves away from all other squads... as lone wolfs tend to do )

Bearing in mind that realism is a sniper hide setup, working in a pair, radio communication, and the ability to provide recon that your average soldier cant. (lots more than that but I think those are fair guidelines for this game, SUGGESTIONS? )

Any SUGGESTIONS as to how this can happen anyone? I've made mine and seem to have been totally closed down without any thought to the potential.

Its like setting up a tent with all your gear putting down your bipod and saying "yeah ill snipe everyone from here" .....

If thats what you're gonna do with it then great. wont be long until you die from someone seeing your tent and someone useful can use the kit properly, of course right now you dont need a tent, so no one sees you .

They should demand getting support from one other person, not some "item" that is placed on the field because hes a sniper.......

Snipers dont rely on People for ammo, theyll have their "Item" that in theory theyve carried for miles to be able to use it as an ammo source. A snipers spotter dosnt usually stick by him, hes at another vantage point where he can view the snipers vapor trials more effectively + giving another vantage on the enemy. Also his laser designator can draw attention, so Youd rather the sniper wasn't there too.
Added to the fact is that two brokeback mountain snipers hugging next to each other are easily spotted.

It discourages relocating your spot if you have been spotted, something you should do after you take fire or engage someone in CQB

and if having your only source of ammo and you primary location discovered won't make you move then what will? OK so you work as a brilliant sniper wtf are you doing involved in CQB? if thats the case MOVE. you can put another hide up on a different hill.

Imagine the people who are just going to camp X hill with a freaking tent

so you cant handle two guys apparently scared to move their hide to another hill even though itll be outta ammo soon, on a hill called X? what kind of squad are you?
If you know theyre there with their hide, take out their hide and their means of ammo (who knows maybe theres a time limit till they can have another SUGGESTIONS!??) kill them both, do the job of eliminating the sniper threat like real fegging squads have to!!
Or do you just prefer a lone camper whos got an infinate ammo supply to rearm off of all over the map? who's spawning on his spotter sl or apc (gone in 0.7 maybe?)
In a good game a decent sniper will move, hell dissappear for some time, then when his hide is back up hell be back in action and you'll know because there will either be a squad somewhere that cant move (awesome for the guys who need to come in and help, intense for the pinned down squad ) or for some reason the other side seems very wise to your troop locations and you cant seem to pick a way past them .
However in current games snipers will run around the hills like an aimless gimp.

If your a sniper and your taking multiple shots and getting hit from afar repeatedly and you need to run to X location OVER AND OVER to heal / rearm then your doing something wrong or the area is too hot....

You need the dam thing there in the first place to get any ammo, the healing aspect is when you do take hits you have a means to get back to a higher state of health than a lone poofter plaster offers, to then move and relocate your hide and therefore your sniping location.
NOT just sprinting to another bloody hill, in a bad situation you scrap the hide annihilate all trace of its presence and pull back along your defensive route, current snipers find a spot and hold on for as long as poss.

If I hear one more "sniper or spec ops should have X more gear / this option / parachutes / more weapons / a dm rifle and a sub machine gun / spec ops grenades back / c4 back" I swear.... the kits are fine >.<

If I hear one more arrogant Civvie gamer mentioning how a kit he obviously has no real clue how it operates in real life is fine for a PROJECT REALITY modification to a game I'm going to go insane. Just for the record spec ops is a piece of junk, the SLAMs (they can blow a tank track and should be able to in PR) are useless and I cant wait to see how theyll make it effective for 0.7, instead of just an exploit. As for grenades, too many of them we need less, much much less.
SMGs? bugger off... thats all I know what I'm talking about when I talk about the reality of a kit obviously FAR more than you do and I get my information from a very reliable source.

This would put a huge emphasis on the sniper class, a class which neither needs or deserves emphasis. There are a lot of neat ideas out there, but they all must be viewed within the framework of a balanced, enjoyable game

Excellent an intelligent suggestion. I dont think the class needs an added emphasis, admittedly this will happen in the first case. however soon enough loners will learn its a kit that cant be used alone, and pairs will learn to employ hides wisely as the snipers ammo will mean youll only be able to effectively sight, track and engage perhaps two targets (armour + infantry?) before needing to relocate the hide. Plus the hide should only give enough health to restore the sniper from a moderate bleed (as opposed to very light as offered by 1 dressing, light being 2 dressings) so if the sniper does take a bad hit and has to run he might be able to get to his "medic kit" (NO not a real dam medic kit before one of you says it) before he bleeds to death. time to relocate.
With this requirement for teamwork I think the hype will soon go more towards the teamplayers and away from the loners who just wanna run and gun (mr ryan who keeps looking for the barrats anyone?)

i suggested a 2 man sniperkit once but everyone was all like who wants to be a snipers ***** a.s.o

Another guddun. true what rifleman would wanna be a snipers *****? unless that rifleman can get a cool spotter kit and use a funky looking radio in a badass camo hide to communicate enemy positions to the TEAAAM and help out his SL by giving him more eyes. How many ppl in 0.7 are gna be saying "Squadleeeeaaader can you spot this enemmmmyyyyyyy"? this sniper will take a load off their shoulders.

Bringing me with regards to the 2 man sniper squad thing with SL as spotter. I see no reason why with my system (of course with a lot more COMMON SENSE suggestions) a sniper team can't operate in a full squad acting as specialist (simple forthought if you have a specialist in your squad already dont encourage everyone to team up in APCS and grab H-AT at the same time. too much) plus its a pain in the *** when you have two guys in a locked squad, not communicating, exploiting the sl spawn and the sniper kit on a hill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadist_Cain View Post
rifleman could request a spotter kit:
Ghilli suit
High Zoom scope (barret style, something more powerful than the snipers scope)
binocs
2x field dressings
Small side arm (maybe pistol, maybe summin meatier)

with this idea bolted on to the hide, i give it a big fat no.
snipers are realistic, but how they are used in game are not and your ideas give far too many options for the sniper to be exploited

OK would be helpful if you said how it can be exploited? and maybe make your suggestions as to how to avoid this.
I agree snipers are not effectively used in game however I have yet to find an ******* (who isnt warned on our server at least...) big enough that they simply refuse to play as a team without "gentle" persuasion.
Those who dont always have good reason, be it a language barrier, the disease of noobism and not RTFM (I've just had a great game with a guy who didnt RTFM but he listened and learned, awesome round)

what makes you thing a snipers hide would change gameplay, if the current system dosent work for the supersniper kids out there, why should this be any diffrent?
granted it would help the few that can and know how to use this kit, but its alot of changes for a handfull of people...

i think, the reason nobody cares about this kit is that it isent all that great, most of the stuff the sniper can do can be done by a rfileman or spec op or somthing similar, i just think the game was built more to be a good teamwork mod while emploring as many reality aspects as possible, while not completly ruining gameplay.
instead of a sniper mod.

this is not a flame, its a healthy discussion, right?

OK and to close.

I apologise for any hostility I may have run away with. It dosn't come in my nature and sometimes just happens when I type and essay like this to explain myself in extreme depth as none seems to understand my point. I am going over my post to remove any nastiness that may have bled through my fingers too much

I'm definately after a healthy discussion hence why I'm so frustrated at nearly everyone closing down my idea without even chiming in their own thoughts of how we can get this to work or even what these exploits are, someone plz tell me? so we can discuss how to overcome them

I absolutly agree, no one cares, the kit isnt that great and that atm most of the snipers jobs can be done by rifleman (especially taking view distance into account) Any more justification for a discussion to improove its effectiveness in a team game?

Like you said its a teamplay mod with as much reality as poss instilled into the engine. so the guy who dosnt want teamwork will be dead much quicker than atm when he gets the sniper kit, in my experiance your average l33tist will get bored and follow the squad around to get a chance of some action, cos it aint happening no more if he uses the sniper kit like that
Again on the teamplay aspect only teamplayers will be encouraged to use the sniper kit, resulting in when there is eventually enough folk (some kit limiting tweaks perhaps...) on the server and a full squad does happen to have a couple of chaps getting a sniper kit + spotter they will be very effective.
I mean not to make it as a sniper mod, I mean to make snipers as ineffective as poss unless used properly... "dude I've got hardly any ammo wtf"
You need a hide to get your sniper rounds
"how?"
Get a rifleman, he can then be your spotter and you can sight big targets for everyone then
"sweet "

Either no one will want to be his rifleman and hell die as a sniper with no ammo, leave the server cos hes a gimp, or follow the squad to be useful. Or he'll get a rifleman and what would have been another bloke alone in the hills doing some cross country jogging with a rifle now turns into A sniper with a spotter who can spot targets and kill important infantrymen (after all the spotter is the one with the optics strong enough to tell you who is what rank) (kit)

OK I know most of you havn't made it this far, those of you who have WELL DONE!! please christ dont brickwall this one again, if you think this can be exploited explain why, think how the exploint can be removed or see if someone else can.

At the end of it all You need Pilots for your aircraft, APCs need a "trained" crewman, you need teamwork and squads for the squadleader none of these things work without the above. Snipers need to have spotters, and when on a mission often NEEEEEEEED a hide.

Regardless of what you think my thoughts will have on gameplay the sniper class needs some attention (that dosnt mean making it better for the idiots who already occupy it) to make it work in a team based kit and to make it more testiment to real life sniper work and to just not be another toy for the idiots who like to also play PR flight sim on Kashan the rest of the time

Again apologies if Somethings I've said have come off as hostile but how about we try to make this work? This community will go tits up as a team based reality mod if every mention of change is picked apart because of insignificant details straying away from the bigger picture.

And THANKYOU to those who have taken the time to read my excessively long post, forgive the longness but As you can see I'm beginning to reach the end of my tether with constant "Everything's fine as it is" if the human race was always like this we'd still be in caves.
Im sure I would have been met with a lot more positivity if it was summin about the UBER NEW CHALLENGER " Yay :Roll: I get more excited hearing about the spotting changes and the reality being braught in more

[NYgurkha]

i still hold the thought that snipers are really useless in PR right now, and doing what your proposing is too much work for something that really is absolutely broken (and really not that important). Rather, the time should be spent on improving other aspects, like the medic, ammo, support etc. PR is based around squad based/combined arms game play from what i have seen, not spec ops, 1337 covert ops behind enemy lines.

[OwnRize]

Kits are just fine atm. Me and my friend we a few days ago sniping. I went as spoter (rifleman) and he had a sniper kit. While I was spotting and locating new targets with him he took out those who could be a danger for the others and I was informing the other squads and the commander trough chat. Sniping within PR is fine. BUt what other people said: Most of them don't know how to use it and use it in a team.

The only thing what I miss maybe is that we cannot know the distance from your location to that of the enemy. But notting is perfect.

Adapt or fail forever

[gazzthompson]

i support this suggestion, people talk about using the sniper kit properly, now properly would be u get 0 kills all round 0 deaths all round. u hide on a flank and spot enemy units trying to flank round or spot firebases, RP's ect. but this is the bf2 engine and the fact is you CANT ! u try hide in a grass covered forest but no u stick out like a sore thumb. having a deployable (and destroyable?) hide would able snipers who want to use the kit properly to observe and recon which tbh is impossible at the moment because ppl in the bf2 engine stick out soooooo bad.

yea it will be abused, but the kit is being abused now. and the person who said;

This would put a huge emphasis on the sniper class, a class which neither needs or deserves emphasis. There are a lot of neat ideas out there, but they all must be viewed within the framework of a balanced, enjoyable game.

it should be one of the most emphasised kits for change in future! its a kit with great potential but has not yet received the attention to get that potential.