Alternative Spawn/Reinforcement Design Discussion

Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.
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hoak
Posts: 141
Joined: 2005-06-23 06:40

Alternative Spawn/Reinforcement Design Discussion

Post by hoak »

There are alternative(s) not represented in the SQD Leader Spawn Removal Poll (and other thread discussions that don't consider alternatives) that takes the bull between the horns, would add more realism, yet offer more in the way of lower initiative squad cohesiveness on pub servers the way DICE's 'Spawn on Squad Leader' feature does, and is do-able in BF2...

From get-go it warrants mention that players spawning magically in the open, be it on a Squad Leader or magically placed 'Rally Points' is not in the least realistic and has enormous unrealistic/arcade effects and consequences for game-play -- from squads having instant and absurd levels of unrealistic leverage, or being trapped in a spawn ambush that becomes a relentless death trap, not to mention the ridiculous aesthetic dysphrenia of players magically appearing out of nowhere.

One approach is to always have players 'reinforce' (in groups or even squad size units) in clipped areas be it vehicles, revetments, or buildings nearest the squad leader; there are other alternatives of similar and even more realistic design, but these would be better executed on an a more capable engine like the one Scale Render R&D have offered the PRM Team access to...

I'm all in favor of the realism design objectives the PRM team is pursuing (thank you PRM Team for removing the HUD); it's the best tactical realism game/mod currently in the channel imho, but, due to the mod limitations of BF2; and woring around them and trying to shape game-play via abstract play motives will generally and dramatically fail on pub servers, make the game more difficult to approach for the new player, and have a very negative impact on the interest and size of prospective audience that is still very enthusiastic about the more serious tactical realism genre...

:|
BloodBane611
Posts: 6576
Joined: 2007-11-14 23:31

Post by BloodBane611 »

So in summary: Change all the **** you're doing, move to a new engine, and do it all over again. Well, you're not the first to suggest it.

Personally having played way more than a healthy amount of .6, and a few hours of .7, I really like the changes and think they create a good game dynamic. This isn't just about reality, its about designing a game that is fun for players as well. I think with .7 the PRM DEVs have gotten a great product.
[R-CON]creepin - "because on the internet 0=1"
hoak
Posts: 141
Joined: 2005-06-23 06:40

Post by hoak »

BloodBane611 wrote:So in summary: Change all the **** you're doing, move to a new engine, and do it all over again. Well, you're not the first to suggest it.
No, that doesn't summarize any point I've made...

:(
Jagger
Posts: 193
Joined: 2007-09-20 15:52

Post by Jagger »

Well,in real life.........

.......they'd bomb the shit out of any designated area for 48/72 hours and then send in UAV's to take out any small units with hellfires or mavericks and follow up with three or four blackhawks full of spec-ops and a parachute drop (low level) from a C130,a few tanks and a couple or six Apache gunships,snipers,dogs,robot guns,satellite imagery.......

...So all we need is a full US/Coalition armed forces squad (about 246,000 troops) and a million or so baddies running around a desert the size of say.....Iraq.....or Afghanistan..............and a few years to complete each level..........


Join the Army. :mrgreen:

They have done the best they can with the current engine.It's virtual reality though and not real virtuality.

I say hoorah for the Devs and let's see what we can get out of this release before trashing it.
"and pray that there's itelligent life somewhere out in space because there's bugger all down here on Earth" :camper:
hoak
Posts: 141
Joined: 2005-06-23 06:40

Post by hoak »

This is a Suggestions Forum, one for making suggestions; I've only made a suggestion, one based on: general public reaction to the impact changes in the latest release have made on game-play and player ship, and one that can be easily implemented with BF2's limited mod capabilities that solves real issues of game-play and realism.

I have another suggestion: instead of knee-jerk, apologist, FanBoy sarcasm and insults; why don't you respond to the points actually discussed rather then chiming in with totally irrelevant, irreverent petty remarks and hostility... If that escapes you I have another suggestion: why don't you join the Army, or better yet primary public school where you can learn to read, write, and think clearly...

:rolleyes:
IronTaxi
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 4925
Joined: 2006-05-31 12:56

Post by IronTaxi »

i think their are still alot of problems but that the general direction PR is going is correct.. this is the way we have always wanted the gameplay to be...

paced, thought out, meaningful movement...

I think we will likely lose alot fo our fraggers and wolfers with this release.. we are willing to do that...My hope is that we can attrack more "arma" type players..

As far as a new engine.. our DEV discusion has concluded that there is nothing suitable for our objectives right now...

those objectives are

1. Realism (physics)
2. 64+ player multiplay
3. Large outdoor envirnment 4sq km +

so until we can find that... the bf2 engine is what we have...
hoak
Posts: 141
Joined: 2005-06-23 06:40

Post by hoak »

[R-DEV]IronTaxi wrote:i think their are still alot of problems but that the general direction PR is going is correct.. this is the way we have always wanted the gameplay to be...

paced, thought out, meaningful movement...

I think we will likely lose alot fo our fraggers and wolfers with this release.. we are willing to do that...My hope is that we can attrack more "arma" type players..
I agree, and that's not necesserily a bad thing; as some of these players do detract from game-play more then any flawed feature implementation.

However, you do already have spawn in vehicle support and spawn in clipped areas -- this makes me wonder why not a more realistic reinforcement scheme? For example: why not have the Squad Leader call for a clearing an LZ and backup, he drops his signal grenade the squad must clear a perimeter, and a botted Helo can bring in the respawning/reinforcing players, or they can HALO in; this could even support a game mode unto itself -- and all with preexisting BF2 feature code.
[R-DEV]IronTaxi wrote:As far as a new engine.. our DEV discusion has concluded that there is nothing suitable for our objectives right now...

those objectives are

1. Realism (physics)
2. 64+ player multiplay
3. Large outdoor envirnment 4sq km +

so until we can find that... the bf2 engine is what we have...
That's a little shocking, as SRR&D's engine is a ground up implementation intended for combat simulators that supports very high precision and fidelity physics and concomitant high fidelity and granularity ballistics code, its TNL net-code will support up to 128 players (more on high end servers), and the engine efficiently renders up to 32^2 Km outdoor terrain and urban environments with unlimited draw distance -- it also will import BF2 assets almost box stock...

:|
hoak
Posts: 141
Joined: 2005-06-23 06:40

Post by hoak »

I like the current design a lot, the more I play it the more I like it -- but there is an enormous volume of complaining, and I do think it could be better addressed and designed around with features you've already built and are using.

:)
VipersGhost
Posts: 1171
Joined: 2007-03-27 18:34

Post by VipersGhost »

hoak wrote:That's a little shocking, as SRR&D's engine is a ground up implementation intended for combat simulators that supports very high precision and fidelity physics and concomitant high fidelity and granularity ballistics code, its TNL net-code will support up to 128 players (more on high end servers), and the engine efficiently renders up to 32^2 Km outdoor terrain and urban environments with unlimited draw distance -- it also will import BF2 assets almost box stock...

:|
What the heck is SRR@D's engine? I'm not familiar with that acronym but it sounds impressive. I don't think PR is going anywhere for a while. BF2 is still working well and we are on the threshold of new, might as well wait for it to level a bit. Then maybe PR will move to a massive engine with Crysis level graphics...but good gameplay ;)
All you twats starting said threads "WTFBBQSAUCE 0.7 BLOWS" - R-Dev Jaymz
kilroy0097
Posts: 433
Joined: 2008-01-02 12:57

Post by kilroy0097 »

Is it at least possible for the SL to place a Rally Point with any kit and not just the Officer kit? Or is there some reason this is not a good idea?
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