Tactical Army Maps

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-16 06:58

Im not sure if this will be a good feature or not but it would not be easy to do also.

Im suggesting that you replace the mini maps ingame with relistic maps. Unfortintly there would be no easy way to do this, best way i can think of is get the mini map that was genrated from the editor, then go into photo shop and set up 2 layers, on the background you would have the editor mini map and then you can paint on the 2nd layer over it a realistic map.

Post by **Hitperson** » 2006-01-16 12:55

Damn that sounds like a cool idea confusing though and you need real areas.

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-16 13:05

Hitperson wrote:Damn that sounds like a cool idea confusing though and you need real areas.

you wount need real arears you would just make the map seem that it was based on a real arear. i mean you could do it to gulf of oman and change the map for it but like i said, it would not be easy

Kos'aaK · Post by **Kos'aaK** » 2006-01-16 13:25

I say no minimap at all, integrate everything on the big map accesible via M-key.

Post by **JavaMoose** » 2006-01-16 14:22

That would actually be fairly easy to do. I bet I could whip something up in Photoshop.

On a similar vein, I have been trying to figure out a way to replace the high-level commander map with an edited one (can do anything about the zoomed-in real-time one). I made a grayscale image with some blur and noise, similar to what a lot of high-level sat. footage looks like - haven't made it work yet though...

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-01-16 15:44

JavaMoose wrote:That would actually be fairly easy to do. I bet I could whip something up in Photoshop.

On a similar vein, I have been trying to figure out a way to replace the high-level commander map with an edited one (can do anything about the zoomed-in real-time one). I made a grayscale image with some blur and noise, similar to what a lot of high-level sat. footage looks like - haven't made it work yet though...

it aint hard, just overgith the minimap.dds file...

JuRrO wrote:I say no minimap at all, integrate everything on the big map accesible via M-key.

and the "M-key" is still called the "minimap", just what u mean is the little HUD minimap on the top right

Post by **JavaMoose** » 2006-01-16 19:03

Rhino wrote:it aint hard, just overgith the minimap.dds file...

Yeah, but then that forces it on the 'regular' players - and not just the commander.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-16 19:05

Rhino wrote:and the "M-key" is still called the "minimap", just what u mean is the little HUD minimap on the top right

The m key is the spawn map, not the minimap (and tab is the unit map, which in fact is the big minimap)

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-16 19:24

I still think the mini-map needs to stay. It helps replace the situational awareness you would have in real life that you can't get in a game.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-16 19:54

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']I still think the mini-map needs to stay. It helps replace the situational awareness you would have in real life that you can't get in a game.

But what realistic situational awareness is there that the simple 1st person view perspective doesnt provide (along with your brain)? I mean sure you could sneek peek behind walls, look without turning your head, etc... But the minimap offers soooo much more than this. 100% complete info on all friendly units everywhere.

In real life, would you know exactly where a friendly was running behind a building 200m behind you without even turning your head?

Besides, this awareness can easily be replicated by pressing tab, thinking "Ah, there is a friendly squad coming up here, enemy flag is there, enemies might be around here", closing the map and proceeding with the last known info.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-16 20:40

Hearing and peripheral vision are effectively destroyed by FPS, unless you have really good speakers I suppose. Keep the mini map, at its smallest setting. Otherwise you're flying blind.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-16 21:11

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']Hearing and peripheral vision are effectively destroyed by FPS, unless you have really good speakers I suppose. Keep the mini map, at its smallest setting. Otherwise you're flying blind.

On peripheral vision I agree... To a certain degree. You may have smaller perspective (true 180 degree vision can never work on a monitor unless its an XXX Widescreen, lol), but on the other hand you have instant response. You can turn around completely in 0.1 seconds and have 100% focus over the entire screen: The human body nor eye can do that, both of which actually INCREASE peripheral vision (from previously gimped state).

For hearing I disagree. Good speakers are easy to come by, especially excellent headphones which make you able to pinpoint a sounds direction and location (this of course assumes a good game sounds system, but I consider BF2 to have good enough, compared to say Joint Operations where locational sound failed due to inconsistent distance volumes). If you dont have good headphones (or the eqvivalent nice speaker setup), you're not a true gamer

(but I may be biased there. I have only ever used headphones as I dont understand how people can play wargames without them. I would wake everyone with gunfire, bomb blasts and screams!)

Btw, here's an experiment: Run Karkand (tight city action with lots of buildings to get confused in) in singleplayer, turn off the hud in the console after you've spawned (renderer.drawhud 0 if I'm not mistaken) and play away. See how "flying blind" you are. Note that you'll have to enable it to respawn (press up key, change 0 to 1 and repeat).

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-16 22:11

I've played before without a minimap before and to be honest it isn't easy. Especially since when you are identifying where something is, you don't just say ____ spotted, you'd say over there by the ______. Not everyone uses VOIP or ts, so the spotting feature is practical and useful. Without the minimap you would have to constantly check around you, something you should be doing anyways, but not to the same degree. Unless there are plans to make more auditory warnings, which wouldnt always work because screams aren't identifiable, they'd all sound the same. I think keeping the minimap with a reduced size is the easiest and most practical way to go.

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-16 22:28

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']Without the minimap you would have to constantly check around you, something you should be doing anyways, but not to the same degree.

Well technically you could just bring up the unit map and check. The only real difference between having a minimap and not having it is the fact you cant move while getting the info.

But granted, BF2 isnt designed to be without it.

Post by **JavaMoose** » 2006-01-17 00:39

I don't get how the concept of the minimap is unrealistic? Is a networked GPS mapping device that has updateable way-points unrealistic? I don't really think it is.

Can PR re-skin the mini-map to make it more like existing GPS devices, not only in look, but also in function? You might even be able to pull map coordinates and display them as 'GPS Coordinates' and have a compass display. Then, squad leader or commander could say: "Proceed Southeast to 32,64 and Defend".

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-01-17 07:58

JavaMoose wrote:I don't get how the concept of the minimap is unrealistic? Is a networked GPS mapping device that has updateable way-points unrealistic? I don't really think it is.

Can PR re-skin the mini-map to make it more like existing GPS devices, not only in look, but also in function? You might even be able to pull map coordinates and display them as 'GPS Coordinates' and have a compass display. Then, squad leader or commander could say: "Proceed Southeast to 32,64 and Defend".

And then you would check your GPS computer which you have in your pocket (press tab), get a bearing and proceed to target. Unless of course we assume high tech goggles with an on-screen display. Both exist. I just think that computer goggles is too far off in the future to be standard for an entire army

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-01-17 20:19

Again I think it substitutes situational awareness more than GPS. I would say take it down to a smaller size, take away the details (buildings, land features) and then have the full map act as a GPS type system (which isn't tab for everyone

).

beta · Post by **beta** » 2006-01-18 01:15

The only reason I can see for keeping the minimap (map in top right corner, on screen all the time) is for seeing targets that are spotted by friendlies.

If PRMM got rid of the minimap it would mean about the same to me as them getting rid of the health bar or the ammo count. I will get used to it eventually.

All the minimap does is allow for almost instantaneous situational awareness. The spotted commands should be a visual cue of some sort along with an auditory message (preferably a yell, so you have to stick close if you want to be able to spot targets easier) and other reasons for using the minimap like finding out where you are and need to go, checking flag sides, checking waypoints, etc. should be done from the large map that takes up the whole screen.

This will probably slow down the action in game somwhat, AND it will also make firefights more realistic IMO, every firefight I've been in (not RL ones of course) have one basic thing in common: you don't know what the hell is going on! In PRMM, firefights seem to be too ... easy, you can easily see where enemies are shooting you from (this is mostly a map issue though) and you can let your whole team and their mothers know EXACTLY where the enemies are (and where they are moving to) with the magical "spotted" button.

In short, I think ABSOLUTELY no HUD at all is the best way to go, because, as far as I see it, the only thing that the hud provides that you actually get IRL is the magazine count