EG's Insurgency Kit and stuff Ramblings

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-06 07:46

The insurgents are my second favorite faction (second to Militia!). I've brought up a few things about insurgent kits before, and I wanted to bring something else up. Also I like posting here to see if I'm going mad, or if I have viable voices in mah hed.

In review:

The "cell leader" kit has an AK47 with UGL. (Not sure if the AK-47 even gets those, the GP25 was made for the AK74) It's got a few explosive grenades, and a smoke hand grenade. It also comes with 3 patches.

Civilians have rocks, bandages (12), binoculars, and a wrench that repairs anything but bridges.

The insurgent kit carries a knife, the oh so grand AK-47, some extra ammo, and two Molotov's.

The ambusher kit has (for some odd reason) the SKS assault carbine, a knife, and a pair of IED's.

The war veteran kit has a knife, an AK-47, F1 frag grenades, and a bandage.

I don't often see members of the Insurgency with the Insurgent kit -- it's ammo carrying ability is largely redundant with all of the ammo caches you're supposed to defend, the Molotov's have little in the way to kill the more commonly encountered infantry, and once you begin to bleed, you will likely die. This is all well and good, and requires a bit of thinking to use effectively, and you get 9999 tickets on Basrah anyways.

Since I play insurgents every chance I get on Basrah (which is always), I rarely ever take the insurgent kit (most likely only take it on accident). Instead, I either take the Cell leader kit (I often lead squads) or the war veteran, as I will survive longer as either one, and protect caches easier.

I'd like to propose the following ideas. Like my ill-fated "Militia Changes" thread, which went on for like 4 pages, all the ideas are independent and are not a large, monolithic change, except if they overlap.

*Cell Leader: If this isn't going to be the "War Veteran" kit, then how about giving it a knife, the AK-47, two F1's, binocluars and three bandages? It has a somewhat conventional layout, but if my Insurgency asset placement idea ever takes favor with our Gods (devs), then it will be set apart by that.

*War Veteran: Keep as is, but to make the insurgent kit more attractive, give this guy a spawn time of 45 + (1(deaths)). This means if you take this kit, it will take you longer to respawn than even the conventional armies (rarer). To compensate, maybe give him something like a Molotov (in addition to his frags) or maybe even some soft body armour; or reduce his deviation to whatever the default is for the conventional forces (or militia, "out of practice").

*Insurgent: No ammo on insurgency maps? Compensate with a 3rd Molotov perhaps.

*Insurgent UGL kit: If the Cell leader configuation above takes someones interest, have the current Cell Leader kit (minus the bandages) become a new pickup kit.

*Ambusher: Drop SKS (as much as it's cool, I doubt they'd issue it if they've got AK's tbh) and gain the AK47. keep the nicely modeled IED's (modify the radius to be smaller? Seems like a big boom for a small package, could be wrong). Also get one larger IED (still remote detonated, but replaces their old "vehicle IED" which was being place held as a mine) In addition, a trip wire IED has never been denied...
Failing that, see below.

*New pick up kit -- Big IED: Pistol(?) and a big IED. It looks like an oil drum or whatever. Blows up with a large bit of force.

*Civilian: Keep binocs, wrench, rocks. Gain back shovel IF assets are coming to the insurgency. Maybe keep 2-3 patches.

*Doctor: This isn't a doctor marching off to war, he's an insurgent with some first aid experience. He's not supposed to be a front line soldier, so he spawns only with a knife, pistol and 12 patches.

Vehicle wise, I think we should still get our party van (I need to know if theres enough support for this before I hunt up a modeler).

Also, as a slightly silly suggestion, how about a technical with two of those 12.7mm MG's attached to each other on one pindle, mounted on the back of a technical? Would be a great mobile AA for the insurgents.

LtSoucy · Post by **LtSoucy** » 2008-02-06 11:09

I like the idea. It would make it better to see more IED's and the big 1 going off.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-02-06 13:30

I do like the idea of having the current IEDs have less power, and creating a larger IED that's rarer and harder to get by making it a pickup kit.

Also in favor of getting rid of that silly SKS, and reducing the war vets deviation.

RCMoonPie · Post by **RCMoonPie** » 2008-02-06 15:18

Expendable Grunt wrote:
*New pick up kit -- Big IED: Pistol(?) and a big IED. It looks like an oil drum or whatever. Blows up with a large bit of force.

I disagree...how easy is it to man-pack an oil-drum?
Its not easy to carry when empty, much less full of explosive material.
Unrealistic

I do think a larger IED should be made though.
But not an oildrum size.
Perhaps if it looked like an unexploded artillery shell?(maybe 3 shells bundled together)
Big Boom...and it is realistic

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2008-02-06 15:34

i like the direction this thread goes - giving it 5 stars

AnRK · Post by **AnRK** » 2008-02-06 15:55

Yup, the insurgents need a tad more diversity, like the idea of the doctor with a pistol and the improv. AA gun.

TristanYockell · Post by **TristanYockell** » 2008-02-06 16:15

I have to disagree about the SKS, it is quite widely used by insurgents around the world.
They use it because its more accurate than the AK, just as quick to reload with Strippers, has a built on bayonet normally.
The gun can be taken apart with no tools whatsoever and cleaned insanely easily, its almost unbreakable, and there are multiple millions of them out there.

If not just make it a pick up kit, its already in game and I don't condone getting rid of good content. I really do not see any issues with realism here.

I must admit however I cannot for the life of me figure out why this firearm is not fairly common place in game for insurgents and militia ?.
http://www.ak-47.net/images/AKS74U/aks74u2.gif

jayceon515 · Post by **jayceon515** » 2008-02-06 16:21

Give the ambusher an AK47 and you can rename the insurgent faction (guess why).

45+ seconds spawn time for war vet would make no sense since the insurgents are meant to have "unlimited" reinforcements and they are supposed to be quick if I got this all right (been playing mostly Basrah since 0.5).

A return of "pre-0.6" insurgent spawnable kits would be nice IRL insurgents don't all look the same. Maybe a non scoped G3 could find its place among them since it's used IRL as well.

And just an other little thing. The insurgent officer shouldn't really use the light insurgent soldier model (the one with white shirt looking like he just came home from the prayer). It should use the war vet one instead. It's just a small thing that wouldn't really affect anything but it's also a very easy change that wouldn't require more than just a change of one line of code in init.con.

Doedel · Post by **Doedel** » 2008-02-06 22:44

That's a good idea -- give the Veteran the AKSU-74.

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2008-02-06 23:11

RCMoonPie wrote:I disagree...how easy is it to man-pack an oil-drum?
Its not easy to carry when empty, much less full of explosive material.
Unrealistic

I do think a larger IED should be made though.
But not an oildrum size.
Perhaps if it looked like an unexploded artillery shell?(maybe 3 shells bundled together)
Big Boom...and it is realistic

umm, he said 'or whatever' meaning, that its just something that can be used for a 'big boom'.

Knowing that almost all of Cheo's suggestions are pretty well liked, i would like to know what the DEV team thinks about this.

IMO, this is a gret idea, even though i do not personally enjoy the insurgent faction (particularly because I'm one of the only players who dislikes basrah) i do believe that this combination would make this faction even better than it is.

TristanYockell · Post by **TristanYockell** » 2008-02-07 00:50

Doedel wrote:That's a good idea -- give the Veteran the AKSU-74.

Yes please do, although id prefer it to be wood, not sythentic. Finding a synthetic AKS74U in the middle east wouldent be common place, there is a surplus of millions of wood AKS74's with the orange plastic mags.
You see them in afghanistan all the damn time.

The AKS74U from USI would be perfect for this mod in my opinion, any possibility of them letting you use it DEVS?.

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-07 08:04

Doedel wrote:That's a good idea -- give the Veteran the AKSU-74.

I doubt the war veteran, a practical fighter, would select a weapon of inferior range to that of his enemies, given something more evenly matched.

Did you mean cell leader?

joethepro36 · Post by **joethepro36** » 2008-02-07 08:34

personally, i find that the ambusher kit as is, is perfect. I've had to wait and be patient for kills (up to 18 minutes one time...) but the ied's power and sneaky size makes the ambusher the most valuable kit for insurgents in my opinion. sks is pretty good well used correctly, don't need an ak-47 and it could even promote ambushers as l337 suicide bombers.
If anything civi's need a buff, they're not so good anymore, with the only big benefit of being shot being the addition of spawn time onto enemy forces.

naykon · Post by **naykon** » 2008-02-07 14:02

well, i think keep the SKS for ambusher they are quite common in iraq i think, not everyone can get hold of Ak's, maybe introduce a pistol to one of the classes?

this vid shows captured SKS's from iraq and by the sounds of it they have access to Glock handguns..

YouTube - Iraq Insurgent weapons put to good use

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2008-02-07 14:21

To be honest, there's no point in playing Cell leader, because every time you get by 1337wtfpwn scoped vehicles or riflemen, the enemy gets tons of intel. The only time I picked this kit in 0.7, I got shot by an instaproning scoped rifleman lone wolfing around the city after 20 seconds of spawning.
And as soon as I died, GB got intel on a new cache

The map offers no protection to Insurgents, British can get up on every second rooftop in the city and snipe everything, you can't even spawn as a civi and go to your squad 150 m away, because 9/10 times you'll get knifed by GB. Or a tank kills you, which basically profits your team, but then you gotta respawn and repeat your journey.
If Insurgents could deploy their own RPs without limitations (so it can even be next to a cache they are defending) it would be easier to defend the caches without having to stick around the mosque, because the entire city is surrounded by the British.
And not to mention the bridges to palace being unrepairable.

What's the freaking point of having tons of bomb trucks and technicals there, which you will never be able to use because GB blows up the bridges 5 minutes into the game? How are Insurgents supposed to defend caches against tons of vehicles and a tank, if they can't even access their assets?

Deadmonkiefart · Post by **Deadmonkiefart** » 2008-02-08 03:08

Insurgent should get RPK.

General Dragosh · Post by **General Dragosh** » 2008-02-08 06:47

Outlawz wrote:To be honest, there's no point in playing Cell leader, because every time you get by 1337wtfpwn scoped vehicles or riflemen, the enemy gets tons of intel. The only time I picked this kit in 0.7, I got shot by an instaproning scoped rifleman lone wolfing around the city after 20 seconds of spawning.
And as soon as I died, GB got intel on a new cache
The map offers no protection to Insurgents, British can get up on every second rooftop in the city and snipe everything, you can't even spawn as a civi and go to your squad 150 m away, because 9/10 times you'll get knifed by GB. Or a tank kills you, which basically profits your team, but then you gotta respawn and repeat your journey.
If Insurgents could deploy their own RPs without limitations (so it can even be next to a cache they are defending) it would be easier to defend the caches without having to stick around the mosque, because the entire city is surrounded by the British.
And not to mention the bridges to palace being unrepairable.
What's the freaking point of having tons of bomb trucks and technicals there, which you will never be able to use because GB blows up the bridges 5 minutes into the game? How are Insurgents supposed to defend caches against tons of vehicles and a tank, if they can't even access their assets?

Good point !

Maybe more spawn points around the city...

Non-british accesesable buildings(which british cannot enter

) or just stick a destroyable door on the enterances of the buildings...

Maybe some manable weapons on windows in some buildings...

And id rather see a bridge in front of the city then in front of VCP

And the placable stuff people have been talking of !

And maybe some other stuff...

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-08 19:48

Nah the insurgents shouldn't get too much in the way of placeable objects.

ryan d ale · Post by **ryan d ale** » 2008-02-21 22:37

I'm a fan of the SKS and for the diversity of it. AK's give me a headache with how many there is.

I like the big IED idea as a limited kit but not oil drum size. Maybe three arty rounds?

No A.A guns though, please.

I'm not a pilot. Only interested in the realism. Having a vehicle mounted C&C: Generals influenced technical might be fun and even things up but could be unrealistic in the way that it would be priority meat for the allies.