Why does no one want to defend!?

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2008-02-09 02:50

Why does everyone constantly go 'capture that flag', 'we got this, we can cap that now' and so on?

Why does everyone constantly move off the flag, when they capture it and immediately heads out for the next ignoring the fact, that a enemy squad flanking them will capture it behind them?

Why after the enemy capturing flags 2 AAS groups back, squads still stay at the now uncaptureable flag in hopes of it magically defending itself and the others capturing themselves, so they can continue?

Why can everyone clear out of an area under 1 minute, but they need forever to pull back there?

Why does no one understand the meanings of 'retreat' 'return' 'pull back'?

And countless more.
I experienced two perfect scenarios for this:
Fools Road, Militia, everyone is tard rushing for the Train Depot/Warehouse while getting owned by GB scoped weaponry and highly skilled and cooperative squads, a bunch of lamers and a T62 are camping the Village and no one is nowhere near Estate or Heli base.
The British capture the Estate, ambush the solo T62 going in there thinking he'll pwn everyone, build a bunker and create an impenetrable fort out of Estate. Everyone goes 'wtf', then after 5 minutes they start attacking unorganized and going in with the marksman kits, only to be repelled off so hard, that you could actually go cry in a corner while watching it.
Lost the round badly, the team wasn't even able to get to Militia Bunker to defend it and out of 32 players sitting at the Militia main base, onyl 4 were actually defending the flag.

Today, RtK (Kyongan Ni*), commanding the USMC team, which at start successfully defends Airdrop and captures Kyongan Ni (since PLA wasn't even close to defending it), quickly shocks the PLA, gets Estate and moves onto PLA main from west. The Estate is left completely undefended and the entire PLA team pushes into there. The squads pull back to defend KN and attack Estate but with little success as everyone is lost.
One squad remains at PLA main and as I keep telling the SL to pull back and PLA team gets annoyed with them spawn raping.
The SL wants me to drop a JDAM (lol) on their main, so they can move in and capture it. Obviously he did not realize, that Estate has been captured and we were losing Kyongan Ni as everyone again went on attacking Estate. We won the round, but lost the Kyongan flag as no one even thought of "Hey lets go back, entrench ourself and let them come to us".
That SL refused to pull back and kept telling me he can go capture that flag. Come to think of it, he probably didn't notice this isn't Conquest mode.

Well, mostly no one ever thinks of that and if you tell everyone to defend one flag as commander to keep your team from losing tickets as they get slaughtered, everyone goes 'wtf, why all go there and sit, let's go and capture the flag!!". Obviously the first case proves, that once a flag is firmly defended, you'd need a very skilled and organized team to beat them.

Discuss.

Post by **Rudd** » 2008-02-09 02:54

Best example of this is mestia, this is probably the only time I disobey orders "squad 1 attack ammo dump"

"Negative commander, east tower will be undefended."

Tickets are usually more valuable than ground.

nedlands1 · Post by **nedlands1** » 2008-02-09 02:54

You'd think that with the latest version and its deviation system, which favors those who don't move, people would.

.Intense · Post by **.Intense** » 2008-02-09 03:27

Purely put:

PR is a modification that creates teamwork and communication and the obvious fact that nobody likes sitting still on a flag that isn't contested.

When a commander requests us to defend a flag when I'm the SL -- There is a checklist I go through to be sure my squad won't be bored out of their minds.

1. Has the flag been captured without much opposition?
- If YES -- MY squad moves onto the next objective
- If NO -- My Squad takes up defensive positions until Bunkers or Reinforcements a
arrive.
2. Has the flag been highly contested (Switching sides 10-20 times a match)
- Similar to the above, If yes we stay and defend. If not, We leave.
3. Is the flag incredibly out of the way of the main fighting (EG Virtual Frontlines?)

SL's and Commanders need to communicate this type of logical strategy. If an entire squad is defending a flag that is not contested early on, then there is no point in wasting 6 people defending a flag nobody is gunning for. The strategy changes as each objective flag is captured. If our guys get pushed back on the next objective, I try to put my squad on defense of the flag they need next. So on and So forth.

Its proper leadership decisions that makes defense and offense fun or not. Nobody likes defending an uncontested flag.

BloodBane611 · Post by **BloodBane611** » 2008-02-09 03:54

I've been part of some pretty impressive defenses. Me as a grenadier and another sm as an engineer held mine for 10-15 minutes as the chinese. The real problem was that our team didn't bother to exploit it :/

But as .Intense said, most people just want to be in the action, not sitting doing what they consider to be nothing.

mammikoura · Post by **mammikoura** » 2008-02-09 04:02

it's the internet, you can't expect the majority of people to be smart.

ConscriptVirus · Post by **ConscriptVirus** » 2008-02-09 04:05

i remember there was one long round of Qinling and my squad and another were ordered to defend coal mine after we just captured it. we held off a load of counter-attacks, but when after like an hour, i think the enemy got bored and went to go defend something and our other squad was ordered to go on an attack....so for the next hour, my squad sat at coalmine with nothing to do. we ended up racing the brit jeeps around

Expendable Grunt · Post by **Expendable Grunt** » 2008-02-09 05:14

Because blue are lemmings.

Post by **X1 Spriggan** » 2008-02-09 05:36

I just hate people who assume a flag is capped because there are people on a neutral flag and think they are being smart by thinking ahead and going towards the next flag.

Jagular · Post by **Jagular** » 2008-02-09 08:13

Outlawz wrote:Why does....
Discuss.

Because there are smart SL, not very smart SL, smart SM which listens their
SL and hmm meat-wagons (

new word here) which just first of all looking for sniper rifle then if not for marksman then just rush somewhere
(no matter where)

other words there are team-oriented players with brains and vBF2-players

sorry for my poor English and "just created words"

and about Mestia almost no one of Brits can fullcap East when lots of WNP seats around it

Brummy · Post by **Brummy** » 2008-02-09 08:16

I've defended places with my squad for 1 hour and still sitting there with no enemy. Then we got tired and went to the flag that should be capped and after we were 200m away, yes. A neutral flag.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2008-02-09 11:06

Yes, but note, that in my case Kyongan Ni is a small map. I could climb up the roof of one of the houses and saw PLA dismounting from the trucks 150m down the road.

Another thing here is the fact, that everyone walks all the time and doesn't utilize jeeps or trucks. If there was a mobile squad with APC/jeep, I could tell them to go attack, and if I need help defending, they could use the jeep or the APC to come back and assist.

I also noticed on Zatar, after the Counter-Attack begins (like the only CA map, where the round lasts long enough for this to happen) the USMC team gets confused and they get pushed back due the fact that until now, they could go and capture flags and didn't need to defend them, now while they can still recapture them, they never defend them. The only way I saw USMC win the map, was by capturing all the flags besides MEC main, then wait fopr the bleed to cripple them and even then they pushed us back to the Landing Zones, but the ticket bleed did it's job and we won despite that.

I know on 0.6 RtK I told the entire USMC team to defend Outpost (now US main in .7), when PLA got Airdrop and the fact, we had almost everyone from a 30 man team on it + height advantage and a bunker, the PLA simply couldn't capture it and we caused a mass ticket drain which helped us win by tickets.

There are basically two tricks I use to defend:
a.) if you know, that the enemy will come back in about 2 minutes, take positions and get ready.
b.) if there is no enemy and everyone is bored, get out of the flag and take an over watch position around it. The enemy will consider it non hostile and they won't try to sneak in and will just rush to it.

I did this on Qinling 32p with the IFV, while the squad mates stayed hidden in the hills. They reported enemy movement and I told them to sneak behind and take out the RPs, while the PLA started pouring down to what seemed to be an undefended Village. They never knew, what's coming when my 30mm struck them in the face from 600m away

Ragni<RangersPL> · Post by **Ragni<RangersPL>** » 2008-02-09 11:51

When I'm SL, I usually stay back and defend. When no one is staying back, I ALWAYS Defend. There's nothing more annoying than running from one CP to another and turning back in the middle way just because enemy have recaptured undefended flag.

Fatal-M · Post by **Fatal-M** » 2008-02-09 13:44

well thats always what i say :s

as for example in the al burj map ! we take the west beach and we move on its like stay and defend ! enemy could easily come from the SW and take it back and well get flank us easily ! defend is a gd tactic but they are always trying to move on and capture flags faster to end the game faster ! thats the dumbest tactic ever was !

we need more maturity in the game ! SO GROW UP , LEARN HOW TO PLAY . AND JOIN THE BATTLE !

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2008-02-09 15:30

To quote Cheo 'its because they have a case of the blue'

Look for a DM squad, we mostly defend on maps where it is worth something.

While im at it:
Why does no one ever defend anything besides those damn bunkers on kashan?

burghUK · Post by **burghUK** » 2008-02-09 16:11

im squad leader more thansquad member and im a fan of defending. its helps the team and more fun being on edge waiting for a attack.

Blakeman · Post by **Blakeman** » 2008-02-09 16:14

Eddiereyes909 wrote:While im at it:
Why does no one ever defend anything besides those damn bunkers on kashan?

The bunkers are the easiest to defend as they have buildings for infantry to hide in, whereas the villages are a cluster of easily destroyed buildings with plenty of opportunity for a tank to overwatch the village. Ive tried defending south village with MEC only to be constantly barraged by tanks/planes/apcs. If we stay in a bunker then we can both defend the flag and not be 'tank-sniped' from the hills to the east.

Eddiereyes909 · Post by **Eddiereyes909** » 2008-02-09 16:15

yes but the Key to defening the viliges is tanks, not tanks in the village but tanks on the outside of the village looking from afar.

Blakeman · Post by **Blakeman** » 2008-02-09 16:20

Eddiereyes909 wrote:yes but the Key to defening the viliges is tanks, not tanks in the village but tanks on the outside of the village looking from afar.

Right, which is exactly why most of the action takes place at the bunkers. Two flags close together with enough cover for infantry to run back and forth. The villages only need one tank to defend from a hill, but the only thing that can sneak in is infantry and its hard to defend with infantry.

Sabre_tooth_tigger · Post by **Sabre_tooth_tigger** » 2008-02-09 16:41

Nobody wants to stand still. When my squad defends I tell them to constantly move around the flag we are defending.

Nobody logs onto a computer game to sit and watch an unchanging screen. One guy complained the server disconnected him while defending, for being idle!