Limited kits+Spawn Points+Other Suggestions

Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.
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SleepyHe4d
Posts: 221
Joined: 2008-02-11 10:25

Limited kits+Spawn Points+Other Suggestions

Post by SleepyHe4d »

Sorry for the huge wall of text guys, the first two paragraphs aren't the actual suggestions so skip those if you want. Also sorry for any bad grammar and spelling. :(

I have a load of suggestions and also extensions to other peoples suggestions that I personally think would make the mod much better. Since I have a bunch of things to list I wasn't sure what to do about making a new thread for each category or what but I decided to just make one thread so it's less of a bother to forum members if I'm being an idiot in suggesting all of this. Yes, I know you're supposed to search the forum to check if things have been brought up before or are hardcoded and I KNOW a lot of this already has been suggested or answered but I don't really want to waste time checking every single thing. If it was just one suggestion I would but I think it's fine to not check in this case because I'm pretty sure some of this stuff hasn't been brought up before so PLEASE just bare with me and just ignore (or correct me) on the things that have been answered or are hardcoded and stuff.

I know I look like a total noob and bossy arse just randomly joining a community forum and throwing a huge list out there and it has always bothered me when I'm a veteran of other forums and I see someone do it but since there's a suggestion area here and I'm explaining all this before I list the suggestions I thought it'd be okay. Please forgive me for any stupidity I show in this post and feel free to correct me on anything I do wrong. I hope you welcome me to the forum despite any of the possible wrong-doings of making this thread.

Anyways, now that I've explained all that, here are my suggestions and extensions to other suggestions:

Limited kits

My proposal here is that ALL kits should be limited and requestable and based on a ratio of how many players are on the server. Not only that but the ONLY kit that EVERY faction/army would be able to spawn with would be an unequipped soldier/person with only 1 or 2 field dressing packs and they can't use or ride in vehicles. This would solve the problems of somebody just magically spawning behind you and killing you and also being able to just magically learn a completely different and new set of skills right after you finished healing or repairing something.

Some kits would work differently though and not be based on how many people are on the server but how many vehicles of that type there are on each team. (Example: There would only be six pilot kits if there was 4 jets and 2 helicopters on the team)

Spawn points and flags

-If a friendly is within 5 or 10 meters of an enemy spawn point then nobody can spawn at it. This also goes for the other way around of course.

This suggestion is even more out there and would have a much greater effect on gameplay (good or bad, you decide :( ) than even my last one. There are two different options I have in mind here. The first one is that the only spawn point ever in the whole map would just be at the main base and would be indestructible. The second would be that the only spawn points ever in the map would just be at the flag points.

Yes, I know that would be a huge change and you'd have to change a lot of other things along with it too, like rallies for instance. The thing is I think all the changes resulting from this would be positive for getting realistic (and fun imo) gameplay.

Some things I could think of that this would promote would be better transportation and the squad sticking together while being transported and also on foot. It would also make medics MUCH more valuable and useful since their job would be to keep the whole squad alive since dying would result in you spawning at a main base area.

Kit items

-Would be cool, even if it sacrifices realism, if all the weapons and stuff were pretty balanced. Right now it seems like the M16 pwns everything. I mean heck, if you have to make other weapons less accurate at least make them do more damage than the M16 since they are higher caliber, or even if they aren't do it for teh gameplay! :wink:

-I'd like to see the grapple in more kits, it would be nice for spec ops, they don't really need that smoke after all.

-Some Heavy AT changes such as no locking sound and the ability to lock onto targets because of their heat. Oh yeah, and a fancy thermal sight. You should be able to switch between two firing modes: Direct fire where you can just aim the missile and shoot it at something or Plunging fire where you lock the missile onto a large heat source and when you fire it the missile would travel up into the sky a bit then plunge down onto the target. The plunging fire should do more damage than direct fire.
^
YES, I know this would make them really powerful against vehicles, but there could be a solution: Read the vehicle section about Rocket launchers on APCs.
^
This is all just based on how I think they are in real life, if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me and ignore this suggestion.

-Soflam laser working like an actual laser. -.- Not sure how the hardcoding effects how you can make this but can't you just make the Soflam shoot really fast projectiles like a machine gun and when they hit something it spawns a target box (that lasts one second unless it's moved) that is moved to where the newest projectile hits. if the target box moves instead of being replaced then wouldn't it solve the problem of the laser guided missiles losing their lock on when the target box is replaced.
^
Sorry if that sounds extremely stupid and is impossible to code, I'm no coder. :( If that idea is no good then maybe you guys can find another way to code the laser to where it acts realistically.

-Multi-player-deployables. For example if you have maybe two engineers or something then you can deploy a mortar but you both have to be there to operate it. :p

Bleeding out and dying

-The 'Critically Wounded' state should last much longer, like about a whole minute. (This complements my spawn point suggestion and make medics more useful for that)

-No LSD screen from bleeding out. Instead the screen should just get darker and darker until you bleed to death and fall asleep at which point the screen is completely black.

-When you die the screen should go completely black and you should hear nothing. Would be an awesome effect if something menacing blows you up, the screen would just go blank and quiet and you'd be like: WTF?

-The soldier shouldn't yell when he dies but only when surviving a gunshot. This way you can make stealthy knife kills and silenced pistol headshots and also silent deaths from being sniped. Also it isn't very realistic to yell while bleeding to death or dying from blood loss.

Running

Why the heck is there a stamina bar? If you're life really depended on it you could run for a long time and that's how it should be in PR too and that is why I suggest this. Instead of a stamina bar that runs down and then you magically can't run anymore how about making it run down -but- the more it runs down, the worse your vision gets. Like maybe the first 1/2 of the bar you have clear vision but the second half is when your screen starts getting darker and darker (to a limit of course) and by the time it hits the bottom you can still run -but- you just get stuck with LSD vision. It could be made to where every second you run with LSD vision you have to wait 2 more seconds to lose it or something. Yeah sure someone could run across the whole map but then you'd have to wait forever to lose it. Maybe if that is too good (to be able to run across the whole map) limit it in some way, but this is the basic idea.
^
Btw I got this idea from the part in Black Hawk Down where the soldiers were running along side the vehicles forever and started vomiting and stuff while running. :lol:

Vehicles

-This probably isn't possible but there may be some kind of loophole or trick to get it to work: Have some kind of system where the person with the higher score gets first dibs on jets and stuff. This way it influences pilots to be helping the team while the jet isn't up yet and you don't get people at the airbase for a full twenty minutes waiting.

-Rocket launchers on APCs. I heard they were removed because of gameplay reasons that the devs wanted the tanks to be pretty menacing. There could be a solution though, just make the smoke screens that vehicles deploy more effective and have it block all ability to lock on and also make the missile swerve off course.

-Make helicopter co-pilots useful. There were good suggestions in another thread about this but I have one more to add: they should be able to deploy rope that soldiers can slide down. Maybe have it to where when the helicopter is above five feet over the ground and the rope is deployed (it gives a text and verbal message to the riders) anyone who exits the vehicle will latch onto the top of the rope.
^
Ah **** I was reading the "Already Suggested" thread and the fastropes are hardcoded, but I'll leave this anyways.

-Have some kind of vehicle that can go really high really easy to deploy spec ops with their newly planned parachutes! D:

-Scoped 50 cal on tank maybe?

Maps

The map design for almost all the maps has been bothering me. Now before you think I'm insulting your map making skills, I'm not. It's just a few aspects that don't directly have to do with your map making abilities. First off are the dang bases in the corners of maps, I'm not too sure what the max map size is so this might be unavoidable but when you put bases in the corners of maps it cuts off a huge selection of possible strategies. This is also a problem with some (just some) of the other flags in the open too, there just aren't enough strategic possibilities to assault the bases because of the lack of varied terrain.

The other thing I wanted to bring up was the maps ported in from vanilla with very few changes (like vehicles). Imo you should have no vanilla ported maps in the game just simply because they weren't designed with PR in mind and even if they do work with PR's gameplay I still don't think they fit in the mod. :\ This brings up another thing that has to do with my other mapping suggestions too, I think you should just have a limited number of maps for the mod in general. Like just 5 in all. If it's like this then you can focus way more on the individual maps and polish the gameplay for each one way more, this would help with the suggestion I brought up earlier about each flag base not having enough possible strategies. It would also guarantee they are played more often and you could get rid of the unpopular ones.

Surrendering

Well since a bunch of games end up with one team down to the last flag with a really low number of tickets and pinned down which isn't fun at all I think commanders should just be able to surrender to the enemy and just lose all tickets and end the round. This point of the game isn't fun at all anyways and a lot of people end up just leaving the server which sucks so instead of waiting a couple mins to end the game how about let the commander surrender under certain circumstances. Maybe just something simple like if you are down to the last flag and have under a hundred tickets.
Last edited by SleepyHe4d on 2008-02-11 11:59, edited 1 time in total.
Expendable Grunt
Posts: 4730
Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54

Post by Expendable Grunt »

Well, welcome to the forums I guess. A lot of your suggestions have been done before.

Few questions though...the "Scoped .50 on a tank"; are you referring to the one on top? If so...why? It's usefulness is close order, not long range.

The SOFLAM currently shoots a projectile and spawns what is basically smoke on it.

Spawning without a kit sounds interesting, considered it myself before, but dropped it. Personally, I'd rather make medic and engineer requestable unlimted kits, and have only riflemen and officer as spawnable.

As for spawning at every flag...no.
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Former [DM] captain.

The fact that people are poor or discriminated against doesn't necessarily endow them with any special qualities of justice, nobility, charity or compassion. - Saul Alinsky
OwnRize
Posts: 75
Joined: 2007-11-21 20:42

Post by OwnRize »

On your part of bleeding out & dying. On point 2 & 3 I do agree. But do never think again to increase spawntimes to get back. It will make people leave the game cause they have to wait to much.

About running:
Check this topic which is currently going on: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... ng-pr.html
EDIT: make your suggestion about running over there.

About the maps:
I disagree. I love to have many maps on PR. Maybe some maps don't have much diffrent startegies but that doesn't make it a bad map. You also have to take in count that we only can handle 64 players and a flag still should be able to be defended. You have to think how you want to attack a surtain flag. Do you do that with armor or just infantary? Do you make a quick assault on it or do you go slowly but sure to it?
Btw. You should check out the maps: Fools Road & Qinling - They are so big that you would be able to attack any flag from any direction.
SleepyHe4d
Posts: 221
Joined: 2008-02-11 10:25

Thanks for reading over it and replying.

Post by SleepyHe4d »

I forgot to add some things so I'll post em here and also make an edit above.

Spawn points

-If a friendly is within 5 or 10 meters of an enemy spawn point then nobody can spawn at it. This also goes for the other way around of course.

Surrendering

Well since a bunch of games end up with one team down to the last flag with a really low number of tickets and pinned down which isn't fun at all I think commanders should just be able to surrender to the enemy and just lose all tickets and end the round. This point of the game isn't fun at all anyways and a lot of people end up just leaving the server which sucks so instead of waiting a couple mins to end the game how about let the commander surrender under certain circumstances. Maybe just something simple like if you are down to the last flag and have under a hundred tickets.
Expendable Grunt wrote:Few questions though...the "Scoped .50 on a tank"; are you referring to the one on top? If so...why? It's usefulness is close order, not long range.
Well this is to make it useful at both close and long ranges, not to mention so the engi or whoever is with you doesn't get bored while you're engaging targets long range. Anyways that is how they are in reality isn't it? And heck, if the 7.62 caliber gun parallel to the main cannon could snipe inf that far off a .50 sure can.

Oh and about the spawn points at each flag, well I only suggested that if my other idea was denied about the main base having the only spawn point. Only one spawn point at the main would make the whole mod have way better gameplay for the reasons I listed imo.
OwnRize
Posts: 75
Joined: 2007-11-21 20:42

Post by OwnRize »

Surrendering

Well since a bunch of games end up with one team down to the last flag with a really low number of tickets and pinned down which isn't fun at all I think commanders should just be able to surrender to the enemy and just lose all tickets and end the round. This point of the game isn't fun at all anyways and a lot of people end up just leaving the server which sucks so instead of waiting a couple mins to end the game how about let the commander surrender under certain circumstances. Maybe just something simple like if you are down to the last flag and have under a hundred tickets.
Oh HELL No!

I saw games where we got destroyed back to our main. But then we capped the flag back & pushed them back to their main. 1 person could ruin a whole game for 63 other people (even just pressing by mistake surrender).

See this. If your team defeats the enemy back to their main you have to see the last moments as a reward to get more kills. This is how I see that. And if there is only 1 flag left the tickets go down fast anyway.

Just make sure you have a good orientated teamplay within your side & you would enough flags to win a game. You don't have to be the best of the best.
Spec
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 8439
Joined: 2007-09-01 22:42

Post by Spec »

He suggested fastropes!!!!111111111 (sry, someone had to)

Some of your suggestions are interesting, others are already suggested and some i have to disagree with.

I like the spawning without kit somehow, dont ask me why.

In the version 0.6, the G3 was totaly overpowered compared to the M16, and the M16 had no real scopes. Thats why the devs now made the G3 worse, which is also wrong imo. I think we'll find a better compromise in the next update.

And - More maps are always fun, thats an important part of the game.

A surrender button would ask for some noob to press it only to annoy people.
Expendable Grunt
Posts: 4730
Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54

Post by Expendable Grunt »

The G3 isn't worse, it's different. It's use favors a totally different strategy, but nobody really sees that.
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Former [DM] captain.

The fact that people are poor or discriminated against doesn't necessarily endow them with any special qualities of justice, nobility, charity or compassion. - Saul Alinsky
BloodBane611
Posts: 6576
Joined: 2007-11-14 23:31

Post by BloodBane611 »

when you put bases in the corners of maps it cuts off a huge selection of possible strategies.
Mappers do a lot of thinking and testing. You think there might be a reason they're in the corners? I guarantee you there is.

As far as focusing on fewer maps, I think that would be a total mistake. Forcing players to play new maps and devise new strategies is realistic, as real soldiers can easily be deployed to places which they have little to no intel on in a real conflict.

As for surrendering, there is already a way to do that. Have your whole team kill themselves, and let the enemy take the flag. But in real life, very rarely will surrender in a modern conflict.


Most of your suggestions have been made before, but many of them are good. HAT kit and SOFLAM both very good.
[R-CON]creepin - "because on the internet 0=1"
Spec
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 8439
Joined: 2007-09-01 22:42

Post by Spec »

As for surrendering, there is already a way to do that. Have your whole team kill themselves, and let the enemy take the flag.
No, no! They all put the field dressing in their hands, and slowly walk out of the base, surrounded by enemies aiming at them. When they are out of the base, the enemy is moving into it to clear it, while other enemy troops are bringing the arrested people away.


... sry, was dreaming :P
Spec
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 8439
Joined: 2007-09-01 22:42

Post by Spec »

The G3 isn't worse, it's different. It's use favors a totally different strategy, but nobody really sees that.
Yes, yes, okay. But it should be more accurate than the M16 when standing still, thats my opinion. I'd rather have even more moving deviation.
Death_dx
Posts: 379
Joined: 2007-11-09 21:37

Post by Death_dx »

I think weapon damages are fubar, but that's just me. Pilot kits should be limited on a long *** pool time, to reduce the airport ****** numbers and make it more worthwhile for a pilot to bail out and get picked up. Right now it's more effective to just kill yourself as a pilot when you've bailed out.

Your suggestion about being critcally wounded is kinda of pointless, a minute is the suicide spawn time, if the player isn't using an especially valuable kit, what's his incentive not to either suicide or just run into enemy fire.
SleepyHe4d
Posts: 221
Joined: 2008-02-11 10:25

Post by SleepyHe4d »

Yeah, I guess surrendering is kinda a bad idea. I forgot there was something called mapvoting anyways. ;) The problem is a lot of people just ignore it so it'd be nice if it would take less people to make the vote successful. :p
CAS_117 wrote:And Sleepy BHD is not always a great reference material for military research.
Lol, the only thing I was using it for was an example of running and I think that was portrayed realistically. Wouldn't you just keep running no matter what if it means death if you stop? ;)
Death_dx wrote:Your suggestion about being critcally wounded is kinda of pointless, a minute is the suicide spawn time, if the player isn't using an especially valuable kit, what's his incentive not to either suicide or just run into enemy fire.
Well that was supposed to complement the having only one spawn point idea. If there were no rallies and stuff squads would have to stick together better and also stay alive together. It would be more troublesome if you let someone respawn at the base instead of just reviving him after the battle and this would give way more opportunities to revive people. Like I said this would also complement transport roles and you'd see a lot more squad airdrops or squads using apcs and things. It's not really realistic that everyone is just using apcs as inf attack vehicles right now, of course this idea might not help that part.
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