Adding a stamina penalty for going prone.

[Billy_Crook_Foot]

Just a little something to perhaps influence prone-spammers in a small way.

Obviously, having no stamina left should not prevent someone from proning (or getting up). So in effect, a player could still prone/stand/prone/stand ad naseum and the only difference will be when they try to sprint or jump.

Cheers.

[BloodBane611]

Not a particularly effective way of influencing it. Also, prone spamming is realistic. No one takes their time to hit the dirt when the bullets start flying. Given, in BF2 you hit the dirt like a gymnast, even with 100 pounds of gear on, but still.

[Symplify]

You do a sort of leap in BF2, hence the "dolphin dive", and I'm sure that most people just go down, they don't greater the impact by leaping on it like a wrestler.

I don't get what you mean, you didn't really elaborate. Could you do so?

[Billy_Crook_Foot]

The original thought came from trying to get the crouched stance to be a more popular option for mid-range engagements. As it is, it is much easier to just hit the deck for maximum accuracy in the shortest amount of time (also smallest target).

Sure, nobody would bother with crouched stance for long distance fighting as this is the time for going prone. I think that for close range or ranges up to 100m should be shoot-and-move from the crouched position and perhaps less proning. Hence the idea that we have some small penalty to proning that may influence how people play. Sure, people will still dive on contact and if they stay there for a few seconds there will be next to no effect from this tweak.

However, if they get up/prone/run again/prone they'll be bleeding off their stamina. Again, this won't make much of a difference unless they then decide to sprint away.

Essentially, it would reward people who crouch by preserving their stamina - allowing them to double time it away, while at the same time adding a slight hindrance to continual proners.

AS in the first post, you can still get up and down if you don't have any stamina left (obviously) but it would be impossible to sprint (or jump). Similarly if you go prone and stay prone, your stamina will be recovering while you engage (no noticable penalty).

[Sadist_Cain]

Realism side of things it's good...

Soldier in full combat gear dives to the floor, Stands up, dives to the floor, Stands up, Surely that would effect his stamina? I couldnt keep dolphin diving all day

[RCMoonPie]

Combat gear is heavy....but not that heavy.
You arent carrying a full pack here.....that is why the RP looks the way it does.
Packs have been dropped.
Combat gear and "humping" gear are two different things.
Combat gear exists of just that...items needed to bring the fight to the enemy.
You arent bringing food, pack, sleeping bag or any comfort items.
Just weapon bullets and mission critical items.

I dont think a drop in stamina is necessary.
This tactic is very realistic.
I see a target or I am taking fire....I want to be prone if cover and/or concealment is not available and also so I can more accurately return fire.....this way I myself am a smaller target.
Then I will get up and run if I neutralize the enemy or if firing pauses to attempt to get to cover. And I will certainly repeat as necessary.

No need to add a "penalty" for using this realistic tactic...
other than because you dont like it.

I frequently use the crouch from behind cover, and I frequently see it used.
Why penalize stamina for diving down into a position that gives better accuracy and protection.....and ultimately adds realism to this mod?

[Epim3theus]

I like it as an added punish for the abbility to shoot accuratly while going prone. They can't take that away so make it undesirable in an other way. Maybe even make it so you won't be able to get up after going prone for like a set number of seconds. I mean irl when someone takes a dive to take cover he won't be want to get up again soon. So in game you will be an easy target if you prone dive and kill an oponent, you will be at a greater risk than when you would when you had crouched or just stayed upright.
Because i still get killed by prone divers when i turn a corner, who seem to shoot with no loss of accuracy.

[Psyko]

Just a little something to perhaps influence prone-spammers in a small way.

Obviously, having no stamina left should not prevent someone from proning (or getting up). So in effect, a player could still prone/stand/prone/stand ad naseum and the only difference will be when they try to sprint or jump.

Cheers.

Good idea. i agree with you there, it defenitly will hinder the want to emmediatly jump up to your feet and run away or run in a stupid pattarn.

And on that note, the sprint speed should be slowed, the walk speed should be slightly increased, this way people wont be so quick to run around like lunatics without thinking of what they are supposed to be doing. and the crouch speed with particular weapons should be increased, i cant stand the fact that i cant sweep rooms quickly with an M4 or a pistol!!!

[gclark03]

Just increase (by a few seconds) the time it takes to become accurate while prone. This would encourage people to crouch when fired upon in the open, as well as forcing them to find a safe piece of cover/concealment behind which they can prone.

[RCMoonPie]

Just increase (by a few seconds) the time it takes to become accurate while prone. This would encourage people to crouch when fired upon in the open, as well as forcing them to find a safe piece of cover/concealment behind which they can prone.

I mean this in the most respectful way possible....
This is utterly rediculous.

You mean to tell me that in real life....if you were fired upon.....out in the open.....with no cover immediately available.....you would just take a knee?

You would definitely get a well-deserved Darwin award!

[RCMoonPie]

I like it as an added punish for the abbility to shoot accuratly while going prone. They can't take that away so make it undesirable in an other way. Maybe even make it so you won't be able to get up after going prone for like a set number of seconds. I mean irl when someone takes a dive to take cover he won't be want to get up again soon. So in game you will be an easy target if you prone dive and kill an oponent, you will be at a greater risk than when you would when you had crouched or just stayed upright.
Because i still get killed by prone divers when i turn a corner, who seem to shoot with no loss of accuracy.

Let me get this straight....you want people punished for shooting accurately?

Why do you want it to be undesireable to shoot accurately?

Why wouldnt you be able to get to your feet so soon IRL?

And the best quote ever....

Because i still get killed by prone divers when i turn a corner, who seem to shoot with no loss of accuracy.

So basically you are upset by people that have better skills or are faster than you for whatever reason, be it faster reflexes, faster system, faster connection or whatever?


It sounds like to me that a few of you here need to spend some time doing some target practice!

Going prone is one of the most natural and learned basic instict movements used in combat tactics.
It is taught in basic, and it is practiced and drilled over and over.
I happen to know from experience it is taught at Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Parris Island.
It is taught as movement under fire.
The mantra:
"Im up...
They see me...
Im down...
Knee...
Butt...
Prone...
Roll..."

Im up.....walking, moving, patrolling
They see me.....enemy has made contact or may have seen me
Im down.....I am lowering my profile and becoming less of a target
Knee.....I drop to my knees
Butt.....I place the butt weapon on the ground while falling
Prone.....I am now prone and facing my enemy's direction
Roll.....if under fire I roll to a side in hopes of surviving my enemy's fire and having the drop on me.

It is also taught that of the 3 basic firing positions; standing, kneeling, and prone....prone is the most accurate of all.

[Falkun]

RCMoonPie, explain how it is realistic for a person to be able to take aim while in the midst of going prone and have fully accurate fire. That is the issue here.

[RCMoonPie]

RCMoonPie, explain how it is realistic for a person to be able to take aim while in the midst of going prone and have fully accurate fire. That is the issue here.

No....the issue is wanting to penalize for going prone.

Explain to me how you can compensate for it in game, without subtracting from the obvious realism, that it absolutely 100% realistic for one to go prone out in the open without cover?
Also how can you compensate for it in game, without subtracting from the obvious realism, that one is more steady and accurate in the prone position?

You can't.

And to make it so someone is not accurate because of hitting the dirt is inaccurate as well.
I have placed well-aimed tight groups personally at 200 yards.....over and over and over and over.

I enjoy and want realism in this mod too....it is the closest thing I have to my "previous life".
But there is a tendency to over think this thing way too often.

[Jaymz]

In RL if you proned and shot at the speed you can do it in BF2, you'd be more likely to shoot yourself.

[RCMoonPie]

In RL if you proned and shot at the speed you can do it in BF2, you'd be more likely to shoot yourself.

Thats why I play PR and not BF2 anymore.

If it can be done without "penalty" Im for it.
But dont punish for using a viable tactic and for having accuracy....it is anti PR.

[Jaymz]

I meant the BF2 engine in general. Here's the problem,

Right now in PR you can hit prone and fire within a fraction of a second after hitting the ground, that's not realistic at all. Taking away stamina can't be done but that's not going to be much of a solution anyway. What we need to be able to do is have a slower first person prone animation and/or a delay of about a second or two before you can shoot after proning.

[DarthDisco]

I agree with Jay completely.

The solution to this problem is extremely simple (in theory). I think even the most stringent supporters of the dolphin diving tactic would have to admit that a real life soldier takes more time to be able to return fire when transitioning to a prone position, than while standing or even taking a knee.

All that we want to do is accurately simulate this in the game so that players will be forced to take into consideration whether or not they have the time to go prone, line up a shot, and fire. The delay does not have to be a long one. We are talking about a penalty of 1 to 2 seconds maximum.

To Jay: I keep hearing various "it can be done," "it can't be done," comments. Can you or another DEV clarify? Is it possible with the BF2 engine, to simply lock the firing of a weapon when assuming a prone stance? Perhaps using a manner similar to the current Tank/APC weapon lockouts?

Furthermore, assuming that the change is possible, can you or another DEV confirm whether it is being considered for a patch or future release?


Thanks a lot Jay

[markonymous]

And on that note, the sprint speed should be slowed, the walk speed should be slightly increased, this way people wont be so quick to run around like lunatics without thinking of what they are supposed to be doing. and the crouch speed with particular weapons should be increased, i cant stand the fact that i cant sweep rooms quickly with an M4 or a pistol!!!

now why would you be able not to run as fast in-game as in real life? im sure that the running speed in bf2 is about the same as in real life. Also running in stupid patterns is very possible in real life too might be a good idea if you dont wanna get shot. And why in gods name would we increase the crouch speed for the m4? why would crouch with an m4 be faster then with m16?

[Psyko]

I mean this in the most respectful way possible....
This is utterly rediculous.

You mean to tell me that in real life....if you were fired upon.....out in the open.....with no cover immediately available.....you would just take a knee?

You would definitely get a well-deserved Darwin award!

No. if your being fired upon, you can hit the dirt. if your worried about manouverability whilst in prone, perhapse it would be benifisial for the prone movement speed to be increased. it would emulate rolling side to side, and wouldnt take so long to get back behind cover. taking a knee is the american method of sweeping rooms, corridors, and street corners. but when your out in the open (in trenches, against rampards and ditches, and behind short scenery) you would defenitly be spending most of your day on your *** pressed against somthing, or on your belly with only your head and shoulders exposed.

realisticly, guys only do lots of movement in rapid succession when they get a major adreniline rush because they are being shot at, and after 30 seconds they are exausted to the point where they have to take a breather for a couple of minutes, not seconds, and you dont have to be a heafty gentleman to be effected by the effects of exaustion. so dolphin diving, and going from prone to crouch and prone and crouch is too energy consuming in reality.

[DeadboyUSMC]

I never placed my rifle butt on the deck when going prone... You should have chicken-winged it RC.