Post 0.75 - weapon deviation didn't need to be changed

Halcyon · Post by **Halcyon** » 2008-03-21 23:56

Post 0.75 the weapon deviation is back to what it was from 0.6, which is to say every single rifle is as accurate as a sniper rifle.

I can't even turn a corner without immediately getting hit from 500 meters off by a scoped rifleman. It also seems that people don't need to wait a few seconds from a full run before firing, as I've witnessed time and time again someone in a full sprint, see me, drop to one knee (or prone spam which is worse) and immediately open fire, hitting me on the first shot which is usually a head shot.
Marksman kits are now 100% accurate, and in my opinion are more accurate then sniper kits. Every shot is a guaranteed hit, and the rate of fire makes it the prime choice in long range engagements

To make this worse, each team gets five...yes FIVE marksman kits plus two additional sniper kits. That's 7 sniper kits per a team of about 30 players on average.
That means 25% of the team has a sniper kit, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Each team should get at the maximum 1 sniper kit and 2 marksman kits. In my opinion, when you have a team of 30 players or so, 1 kit of each balances it out.

Whatever was done to the accuracy and deviation of the weapons needs to be switched back to what it was pre 0.75. This is turning into vanilla again, where firefights last for all of 2 seconds.

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-03-22 00:01

Actually, I think it is 10^8 times better.

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2008-03-22 00:19

If I can't run, instantly put my cursor on their head, pull the trigger and have them die... then the game sucks.

In fact, there should be more sniper rifles. A whole squad of them. Hey! A sniper only map!!! That woud be awsume! omgz then their are lotz uf snipez in hills n top of telafone poles n stuff or in treez pretend to be leafs omg tat wid rule!!!111 i can shoot them in teh shoulder spin them round thn shoot theyre ganglia pleez devs can u due this pleeze cuz im ur board of counter strike it getz old

Post by **Spec** » 2008-03-22 00:22

okay...

Is it really that bad? Or is it just me who cant aim?

Alex6714 · Post by **Alex6714** » 2008-03-22 00:31

Well tbh, I didn´t think it needed changing in the first place. I like my weapon to go where I point it. An accurate weapon is one to fear, supression not needed, pop your head up you die. Not oh, he won´t get me because of deviation! Hahaha.

But this is way better than the 0.7 deviation.

G3 actually is better than the knife now!

Halcyon · Post by **Halcyon** » 2008-03-22 00:44

Alex6714 wrote:supression not needed, pop your head up you die. Not oh, he won´t get me because of deviation! Hahaha.

I don't think PR is the mod for you.
You should stick with BF2 vanilla.

[SyK]K22 · Post by **[SyK]K22** » 2008-03-22 00:56

i liked deviation becuase know one can sprint and then perfectly aim, your breathing will be speratic and u cant drop down and instantly aim so i liked .7 deviation better.

and come a all sniper squad or map and that ever rifle should be like a sniper rifle is very vanilla idea.

Post by **Nickbond592** » 2008-03-22 00:59

Halcyon wrote:I don't think PR is the mod for you.
You should stick with BF2 vanilla.

oh how i lol'd

Post by **Katarn** » 2008-03-22 01:03

.75 deviation is definitely not back to v0.6. It is somewhere in the middle of .7 and .6 and that's exactly where we need to be. No longer is it too extreme like in v0.7 where I couldn't hit a man sized target at 50m with my G3 and no longer can a G3 peg me from 400m while I'm running like in v0.6. And the settle time definitely exists in v0.75, it's about 2 seconds long.

Wolfe · Post by **Wolfe** » 2008-03-22 01:06

Then something is wrong because I too am being head-shoted on the run too often, by the guy who pops up behind a wall and instantly fires.

.7 was fine.. the only change needed was the G3 and sniper rifle accuracy... but it seems like everything was boosted to near .6. Too bad. A step backwards imo.

Why is it necessary to kill everything in your field of view so quickly? Are we that impatient and bored? Can't we have a firefight that lasts longer than 2 seconds?

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2008-03-22 01:08

i actually like it now, it seems the devs have got close enough to the perfect compromise

Halcyon · Post by **Halcyon** » 2008-03-22 01:13

[R-DEV]Katarn wrote:no longer can a G3 peg me from 400m while I'm running like in v0.6. And the settle time definitely exists in v0.75, it's about 2 seconds long.

Katarn, people ARE shooting from 400m with a G3 and pegging players in the back, myself included.
0.75 brought great changes to the G3, as it was severely flawed in 0.7 coupled with it's recoil.

However, you can't base the justifications of changes to the deviation solely on the G3's 0.7 performance. Yes the G3 needed to be changed, but not every other single weapon.
And...there's no way it's 2 seconds. I cited examples in my original post.

Post by **PRC_Heavy_Z** » 2008-03-22 01:16

I personally feel this is a step forward. Back in 0.7, by moving the mouse and aiming in another direction, the deviation goes up so you'd have to wait every time you even make a minuscule adjustments. Of course you'd have to adjust your aim every time you move a rifle in reality, however it was over-exaggerated in 0.7.

Halcyon wrote:I can't even turn a corner without immediately getting hit from 500 meters off by a scoped rifleman... I've witnessed time and time again someone in a full sprint, see me, drop to one knee (or prone spam which is worse) and immediately open fire, hitting me on the first shot which is usually a head shot.

No offense but this sounds a little exaggerated. From what I've experienced, sprinting/jogging around and shoot usually result in the first bullet flying off no where near the target. This usually means the opponent probably never even knew he/she was being shot at (no snap/crack). and because the deviation decreases even as the gunner shoots away and the fact that it only takes around a second for the deviation to max out, it takes about only 2~3 rounds before the opponent gets hit. Therefore, this might be what you've experienced.

I agree the deviation system is not perfect and therefore changes should be made. However, I don't believe reverting back to 0.7's deviation is the best answer.

In my opinion, the modification that the deviation needs in order to solve the problems you've stated would be to make the deviation remain constant when shooting.

Here is what I mean:

A rifleman runs then stop and immediately starts shooting (at highest deviation), while he is shooting the deviation SHOULD NOT decrease but remain constant. When he stops shooting and he does not walk/ run (stationary), the deviation would then resume decrease till he is at max accuracy.

This would significantly hinder the accuracy of the trigger happy runners and prone-divers from hitting much of anything. Therefore solving the problem.

VipersGhost · Post by **VipersGhost** » 2008-03-22 01:17

is the settling time the same whether you are prone/standing/kneeling? It'd be amazing if it was possible to increase the settling time by a lot for guys that are prone (after moving/proning). Maybe its already there, I haven't tested it much.

It'd be a nice trade off...prone gives higher accuracy but takes extra time to settle due to the position. Kneeling yields a much quicker settling time but isn't as accurate as prone etc. Too many people just prone like no tomorrow because it carries no penalty in returning fire iirc. I tell you that when I see a deer I take a knee and a quick/accurate shot because proning would take to long to get set in a nice position typically.

Post by **GeZe** » 2008-03-22 01:27

[R-DEV]Katarn wrote:.75 deviation is definitely not back to v0.6. It is somewhere in the middle of .7 and .6 and that's exactly where we need to be. No longer is it too extreme like in v0.7 where I couldn't hit a man sized target at 50m with my G3 and no longer can a G3 peg me from 400m while I'm running like in v0.6. And the settle time definitely exists in v0.75, it's about 2 seconds long.

I haven't been able to play .75 (don't have access to capable computer), but from what you describe, .75 sounds just right.

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2008-03-22 01:33

What???

No way is the deviation fine as it is in .75 release. No way! Deviation has been reduced in .75 release. Suppression fire is very much needed just like in RL. Of course you won't need suppression if you are using a freaking rail gun that is a one shot kill to the head every time. Yes an accurate weapon is a thing to fear, but there is no real world assault rifle (ON THE F!@$ING PLANET) that is as accurate as what is depicted in game at the moment or in .6 release. The only assault rifle that needed to be tweaked in .7 release was the G3. Some R-Dev took it upon himself to screw with something that was working ok, and now we end up with assault rifle accuracy fairly close to what it was in .6 release. Which was/is TOTALLY unrealistic.
Since .75 has been released, I've heard players complaining all over the place on many different servers about getting head shot many times while in game. Something that was almost unheard of in .7 release unless you waited a long time to get steady. Why is that? Cause someone modded something that didn't need to be modded. I have gotten more head shots myself in 3 days of playing .75 than I did the whole time I was playing .7 release. And I play every day, for at least 3 hours or more at a time. Why you gonna add suppression effects and then at the same time restore the assault rifle accuracy back to uberaccurate status? Seems to me that one thing defeats the other, cause suppression fire is NOT needed with uber guns, just like in .6 release. Having assault rifles any where near the accuracy of the rifles in .6 release is TOTALLY unrealistic. I've told you that many times, and I for one know what I'm talking about. Several combat veterans that plays this game have said the same kind of stuff. Even the Military Advisors that are largely ignored have said the same sorts of things. Why is that? Why even have Military Advisors if you aren't going to listen to them? This R-Dev version/perception of reality is getting old. Either make Project Reality based on "REAL WORLD" realism or change the dam name of the mod to something like "Project R-Dev Reality". Cause it sure as hell is losing it's grip on "REALITY".

Post by **Katarn** » 2008-03-22 01:49

Rico11b wrote:FUCKING

My place, 6 o'clock?

Rico11b · Post by **Rico11b** » 2008-03-22 01:50

[R-DEV]Katarn wrote:My place, 6 o'clock?

I love your sig. Keep unzipping