First I’d have to say that the PRM developers have done a great job as they strive for realism but now I’m starting to wonder if possibly they are pushing the envelope.
I started with .4 and though to myself “wow. This is the game I’ve been searching for.”
It’s come a long way since those days.
The BF2 engine itself is designed to be an arcade FPS, not a simulator forcing the developers to Mickey Mouse some of their features and some features simply aren’t available. Several of the more obvious are:
To enter a tank you have to climb on and enter through the turret.
Fine but BF2 doesn’t allow mantling so instead of simply climbing on , you have to stand somewhere and hop up and down until you find that sweet spot where you can hop high enough to get on board.
Weapons are more deadly and act more like their RL counterparts.
This is good but the BF2 engine doesn’t allow leaning so if you’re under cover and want to see where the fire is coming from you have to expose your entire body (something you really don’t do in RL) to the far more deadly weapons instead of simply “peeking” over/around your object.
Squads are a good idea but fraught with shortcomings when it comes to striving for realism. They are limited to 6 players, there is no inter squad communication available and you can’t chose and outstanding nor remove an incompetent squad leader
Bullet penetration doesn’t work that well with the BF2 engine as you can take cover from a .50 MG behind a Hollywood type tree or wooden container that is impenetrable whereas in RL, these objects would simply disappear in a fog of wooden splinters as would you.
Throw in convoluted server rules (ie attacking uncaps, HAT “sniping” etc.) and for me anyway, some things are quit frustrating and the fun factor diminishing rapidly.
These are simply just some of my thoughts.
Are the developers going too far?
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com_kieffer
- Posts: 180
- Joined: 2007-04-02 15:51
best way to have fun is plying in a clan. Always get goodteamwork, you know the peolple you play with and their shotcomings and have a way better experience. getting good combined arms support is hard playing on a public server but with half a dozen other guys on TS its commonplace. Nowdays i never go playing PR alone, always go anf find a couple squad mates to play with.
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DirtyRat
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 2007-03-21 12:33
What you have to admire about this mod, is that the developers whilst taking concerns and views on board, always give us the experience they want you to have...it's not watered down for the few, and the servers are all running exactly the same configurations.
This also means however that players like myself who prefer more infrantry based combat on smaller maps do have to change how they approach the game significantly, I know people who no longer play PR because they find it too boring, they just want action, and they fail to grasp PR is as much RTS as it is FPS, communicating with your team and manouvering are as much part of the experience as the combat.
This is what that really differentiates PR from anything else, but it also means players who are used to a more arcadey approach to realism have a very steep learning curve indeed, and many will simply not have the patience to get to grips with the game.
I've offered before, I work as a voice producer, and I'd love to see a vBF2 esq tutorial, so noobies can jump into the game without having to read a huge manual and thus enable them to enjoy the experience straight away.
These people might then go back (as I did in 0.4) and read the manual, watch tutorial videos etc because they want to know everything there is to know, they are now passionate about the game.
This also means however that players like myself who prefer more infrantry based combat on smaller maps do have to change how they approach the game significantly, I know people who no longer play PR because they find it too boring, they just want action, and they fail to grasp PR is as much RTS as it is FPS, communicating with your team and manouvering are as much part of the experience as the combat.
This is what that really differentiates PR from anything else, but it also means players who are used to a more arcadey approach to realism have a very steep learning curve indeed, and many will simply not have the patience to get to grips with the game.
I've offered before, I work as a voice producer, and I'd love to see a vBF2 esq tutorial, so noobies can jump into the game without having to read a huge manual and thus enable them to enjoy the experience straight away.
These people might then go back (as I did in 0.4) and read the manual, watch tutorial videos etc because they want to know everything there is to know, they are now passionate about the game.
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Rudd
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 21225
- Joined: 2007-08-15 14:32
This is gaming...
Think where we were only a few years ago- the original CnC times watching 2d cartoons with simplistic gameplay. Now were at the stage where we have a game, and mod that is intense and more realistic than most games ever try to be.
What ur going on about sounds more like a BF2 engine rant tbh.
And the "convoluted" server rules are there for good reasons, to ensure each round is a reasonable length and on equal terms.
Think where we were only a few years ago- the original CnC times watching 2d cartoons with simplistic gameplay. Now were at the stage where we have a game, and mod that is intense and more realistic than most games ever try to be.
What ur going on about sounds more like a BF2 engine rant tbh.
And the "convoluted" server rules are there for good reasons, to ensure each round is a reasonable length and on equal terms.
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Expendable Grunt
- Posts: 4730
- Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54
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Begbie
- Posts: 422
- Joined: 2008-03-25 08:22
I think you nailed it there. This is the spammy BF2 engine. it is meant for kind of fun, arcade type of gaming not for "realism" in type of armed assault. Ive been playing since 0.4 and I think 0.5 was the best version because it was a lot of fun. I still play sometimes, but not nearly enough as I used to because it is just not so fun anymore because of the gameplay changes.BeerHunter wrote: The BF2 engine itself is designed to be an arcade FPS, not a simulator forcing the developers to Mickey Mouse some of their features and some features simply aren’t available.
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General_J0k3r
- Posts: 2051
- Joined: 2007-03-02 16:01
i have way more fun now. i think it depends on taste which, as everyone knows, is not debatableBegbie wrote:I think you nailed it there. This is the spammy BF2 engine. it is meant for kind of fun, arcade type of gaming not for "realism" in type of armed assault. Ive been playing since 0.4 and I think 0.5 was the best version because it was a lot of fun. I still play sometimes, but not nearly enough as I used to because it is just not so fun anymore.
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DavidP
- Posts: 951
- Joined: 2007-03-23 04:20
I remember the first day i met rhino on devfile. Showed him how to grief in the airport and also how to deploy rallies as insurgent so close my whole team could spawn rpg.[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:
Ahh the god ol' days of .5 basrah. On second thought i really should'nt have showed it to him because they took away my precious Base raping. 
173555082
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Rhino
- Retired PR Developer
- Posts: 47909
- Joined: 2005-12-13 20:00
I dont rememberDavidP wrote:I remember the first day i met rhino on devfile. Showed him how to grief in the airport and also how to deploy rallies as insurgent so close my whole team could spawn rpg.
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Expendable Grunt
- Posts: 4730
- Joined: 2007-03-09 01:54
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charliegrs
- Posts: 2027
- Joined: 2007-01-17 02:19
the devs have stated many times that for all its faults, the bf2 engine is the best for this mod. and i have to agree with them. it provides a solid base to start with, could you imagine trying to make this mod with a game like unreal tournament? you would have to start completely from scratch. also alot of games dont have enviroments big enough for this mod. and they dont support enough multi-players. people have suggested a million times switching the mod over to crysis or some other **** game, but the devs have always shot those suggestions down due to the reasons i stated.
known in-game as BOOMSNAPP
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paco
- Posts: 218
- Joined: 2007-04-02 18:46
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Alex6714
- Posts: 3900
- Joined: 2007-06-15 22:47
In my opinion the DEVs have gone too far for whats possible on public servers. They are forcing teamwork, which is fine by me, but it just doesn´t happen. Which is why most games are not fun anymore. Its sooo necessary now to work as a team (which I really like btw) but only 1 out of 15 games have a reasonably good team that works together.
Just simple things like: "Guys there is a tank at mine, G2"
Not: "Choppa gogogo who cares where" or "pickup by that enemy tank over there" "run run run, we don´t need defense we are so l33t we just capture and winz!"
In fact, I have had the most fun either with a few clan members or people I know and mostly basrah where we can go round as a squad, whore Armour, ambush, search for caches without relying on the rest of our team not to be a bunch of failures.
Just simple things like: "Guys there is a tank at mine, G2"
Not: "Choppa gogogo who cares where" or "pickup by that enemy tank over there" "run run run, we don´t need defense we are so l33t we just capture and winz!"
In fact, I have had the most fun either with a few clan members or people I know and mostly basrah where we can go round as a squad, whore Armour, ambush, search for caches without relying on the rest of our team not to be a bunch of failures.
Last edited by Alex6714 on 2008-03-26 20:05, edited 2 times in total.
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Top_Cat_AxJnAt
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: 2006-02-02 17:13
I'm totally aware of just about ever PRs shortcomings but i am also aware of the most of the of what makes PR totally unique and marvelously original, the extent of which is great enough for me not to be distracted much or atall by its many shortcomings.
And anyhow the inability to vault walls, the need to climb on top of tanks does not stop PR allowing players to have comparatively (with other FPSs) realistic firefights, in which any level of knowledge of modern RL infantry or vehicular tactics can be applied to good affect and although the lack of bullet penetration , small squad size and limited squad communication does reduce the realism and scope of such engagements, these problems can be overcome with use of simple programs like TeamSpeak and a good understanding of the operational requirements of all assets and therefore one can provide the communication, command/order and support systems to all players and their equipment that is required to effectively use RL tactics.
e.g. 1 Squad dedicated to APC and another to infantry, with both SLs on TS - sounds much simpler that my above description!
Again, you have to ask you self: How much do i value the importance of Real Life Military tactics in all areas, being crucial to success and therefore making game play more complex but highly rewarding if you like trying to use such tactics?
And to be honest, up until this version, the majority of RL tactics have not been useful, more a novelty. Therefore if your answer to the above question was "highly value", you will ofcourse say that the developers have made not made PR too realistic and/hence too complex (can get complexity with out realism) and that the DEVs should develop those aspects of PR much more.
However if your answer was "of very limited value", then the opposite of the above is the case and the developers have most definitely gone too far. LOL
And anyhow the inability to vault walls, the need to climb on top of tanks does not stop PR allowing players to have comparatively (with other FPSs) realistic firefights, in which any level of knowledge of modern RL infantry or vehicular tactics can be applied to good affect and although the lack of bullet penetration , small squad size and limited squad communication does reduce the realism and scope of such engagements, these problems can be overcome with use of simple programs like TeamSpeak and a good understanding of the operational requirements of all assets and therefore one can provide the communication, command/order and support systems to all players and their equipment that is required to effectively use RL tactics.
e.g. 1 Squad dedicated to APC and another to infantry, with both SLs on TS - sounds much simpler that my above description!
Again, you have to ask you self: How much do i value the importance of Real Life Military tactics in all areas, being crucial to success and therefore making game play more complex but highly rewarding if you like trying to use such tactics?
And to be honest, up until this version, the majority of RL tactics have not been useful, more a novelty. Therefore if your answer to the above question was "highly value", you will ofcourse say that the developers have made not made PR too realistic and/hence too complex (can get complexity with out realism) and that the DEVs should develop those aspects of PR much more.
However if your answer was "of very limited value", then the opposite of the above is the case and the developers have most definitely gone too far. LOL
Last edited by Top_Cat_AxJnAt on 2008-03-26 20:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Jonny5
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 2007-12-27 21:28
No, they haven't gone too far at all. This mod was suggested to me by someone who new that I couldn't afford to pay for VBS1. I think it's a program used to "train" SWAT, military etc, so it's seriously hardcore and not even considered a game. I want to feel like i'm a soldier and this is as close as i'm going to get without joining the armed forces.
I'm glad they are pushing the boundaries. If I ever find the game boring its because i've ended up on an uncoordinated squad and all the others are either non english speaking, locked or full. Solution? I've gone back to reading the wiki so I can learn how to best lead my own.
I'm glad they are pushing the boundaries. If I ever find the game boring its because i've ended up on an uncoordinated squad and all the others are either non english speaking, locked or full. Solution? I've gone back to reading the wiki so I can learn how to best lead my own.