Realism!

Schiller · Post by **Schiller** » 2006-02-11 03:40

Played at gloryhoundz the other day, must say I am beeing a little disappointed with all the newcomers. They think of the mod as a slightly different BF2. Realism has to be encouraged!!!

- Take away random aim totally!! Introduce a realistic balistics system instead so you take shots in a realistic way when enemies are far away.

- Damage has to be increased, it's no realism in having to put 5 bullets in your enemies.

- Increase spawntime to a minimum of 1 minute

There changes would increase teamplay and make it all more realistic!

By the way, why are grenade launchers so damn inaccurate?

DangChang · Post by **DangChang** » 2006-02-11 03:52

This should be in the Suggestion forum.

Anyways, I would have to disagree of your ideas

1. Making bullets hitting exactly where you aim defeats the purpose of snipers, and plus there are is no breathing when looking down your ironsights so it makes it even easier.

2. Damage is good enough. It takes one hit in the head to kill. The reason it takes five bullets to kill for you is because you're either shooting a person wearing kevlar or you're hitting them in the limbs.

3. The spawn time is good enough...not to much and not too little. Besides, its a server side setting. Having a one minute spawn time would scare most players away.

Schiller · Post by **Schiller** » 2006-02-11 04:02

1. Breathing could be introduced.
2. I was teached that the kevlar we used in the swedish army was intended for grenade defence, not bullet-proof.
3. Is it better to have a big community with a half-realistic mod or a realistic mod with fewer players? I think more than I want tougher conditions on the battlefield, that's why we are here right?

DangChang · Post by **DangChang** » 2006-02-11 04:41

I'm no modder, so I know nothing of implementing breathing. Kevlar nowadays can stop a 7.62x39 at point blank(it hurts like hell, so I've heard) so I don't know what they taught you over there. As for the spawn time, you've still got to maintain fun in a realism game.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-02-11 05:21

The thing I really like about the accuracy as it is now, is that MGs force you to keep your head down and to be in cover, where as with an assault rifle, you have to be at least in medium range, and even then it takes more than a few shots to make a clean hit.

This forces you to maneuver, or else it would just be one big shooting fest from one side of the map to another (in open maps), and players would wreak havoc in city maps, when they were forced to be at shorter range.

It would eliminate suppressing fire if the bullet accuracy was increased (even if better ballistics were put in place), because instead of pinning your enemy down and flanking him, and having intense, long firefights when flanking isn't possible, you'd end up waiting until your enemy pokes his head out and taking him out right away, and vice versa.

For these reasons, accuracy is perfect the way it is-- really makes the gameplay and dynamics.

Malum · Post by **Malum** » 2006-02-11 05:24

Schiller wrote:Played at gloryhoundz the other day, must say I am beeing a little disappointed with all the newcomers. They think of the mod as a slightly different BF2. Realism has to be encouraged!!!

- Take away random aim totally!! Introduce a realistic balistics system instead so you take shots in a realistic way when enemies are far away.

- Damage has to be increased, it's no realism in having to put 5 bullets in your enemies.

- Increase spawntime to a minimum of 1 minute

There changes would increase teamplay and make it all more realistic!

By the way, why are grenade launchers so damn inaccurate?

1. DEFINITELY. RANDOM? How is that REALISTIC?

BREATHING, DEFINITELY.

2. DEFINITELY, INCREASE

3. Leave spawn time alone, 30 seconds is enough.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-02-11 05:28

Malum wrote:1. DEFINITELY. RANDOM? How is that REALISTIC?

It's pretty good the way it is now, considering there are other factors besides just aim, so the conditions aren't exactly firing range conditions (you have to deal with fatigue, fear, etc).

Think about it-- that's why firefights often last hours with only 15 casualties or so.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-02-11 05:33

Only thing I think needs to be done as far as when a person is hit is that their aim needs to shift around or become extremely inaccurate. I'ts annoying to hit someone and then have them hit the dirt and light into you. Other than that breathing would be cool, but don't hold your breath(

) as that will probably come (if at all) later than the minimod. Spawn time at one minute would be horrible. Imagine being killed in the field, waiting the minute to respawn, then waking up in the middile of an enemy bombing run. Not fun.

EON_MagicMan · Post by **EON_MagicMan** » 2006-02-11 05:41

'[R-PUB wrote:BrokenArrow']Only thing I think needs to be done as far as when a person is hit is that their aim needs to shift around or become extremely inaccurate. I'ts annoying to hit someone and then have them hit the dirt and light into you. Other than that breathing would be cool, but don't hold your breath( ) as that will probably come (if at all) later than the minimod. Spawn time at one minute would be horrible. Imagine being killed in the field, waiting the minute to respawn, then waking up in the middile of an enemy bombing run. Not fun.

Bingo! Breathing would be cool on top of what there is now (and then accuracy could be increased a little), but there's really no urgency in that.

As for the being hit thing, I'm surprised I've never even thought of that. A sharp jolt of the players aim to the side/upwards/downwards, and then a decrease in accuracy for a second or two afterwords would be perfect! Also, if anyone's ever played Raven Shield, the player vision blurs for a split second-- that would be pretty cool to see, considering blur is already done so much *read

verdone*, this would be a usage that actually works (only if it was more of a graphical effect than an effect made to screw the player up, so it should really only blur for like, 0.3 of a second).

lonelyjew · Post by **lonelyjew** » 2006-02-11 06:05

DangChang wrote:Kevlar nowadays can stop a 7.62x39 at point blank(it hurts like hell, so I've heard) so I don't know what they taught you over there.

This would be the standard round, not the armor piercing round right?

DEFkon · Post by **DEFkon** » 2006-02-11 07:04

I'd love to see a more robust damage system implimented altogether, the system as is works great for BF2, but not so great if your doing realism. A system where the directional damage indicators are replaced with something like the "shellshock" disorientation system would be far more immersive and disorienting would be a good start. Another would be somehow implimenting a wounded system like OFP where if you got hurt bad, you couldn't stand up. I've always thought that was a briliant combination of gameplay and realism, because it meant that even if your first shot didn't kill that the follow up shot was on a nearly stationary target.

My dream damage system would something like.
- When recieving damage you get a reddish "shell shock" esq blurr of disorienting pain, but without any directional indicators.
- Stamina as well as health is also effected by damage.
- Damage gets broken down into 3 stages. Minor, Major & untreatable. Minor damage is fully treatable and a full recovery is possible. Major damage effects mobility. Bleeding occurs, and requires a medics direct attention for aproximatly 15-30 seconds. Sucsessful treatment stabilizes the patient and returns partial mobility (Max stamina and health reduced by 50% ). Untreatable damage represents injuries that are beyond the scope of a battlefield medic.

-- in addition to that it'd be really neat if someone could figure out a way of being able to pick up and carry a wounded team mate. (perhaps having the wounded player techincially listed as a vehicle, so another player could drive/move them? That way squad mates could bring a immobilzed team mate to a medic to heal...

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-02-11 09:37

Wow, Great posts... I like every ones Ideas. Is it possible to code "Scope Sway" into the game or just increase deviation when wounded?

dawdler · Post by **dawdler** » 2006-02-11 09:57

DEFkon wrote:-- in addition to that it'd be really neat if someone could figure out a way of being able to pick up and carry a wounded team mate. (perhaps having the wounded player techincially listed as a vehicle, so another player could drive/move them? That way squad mates could bring a immobilzed team mate to a medic to heal...

Would never work. Complex animations like that arent possible on a vehicle (the devs has said so). Besides I dont think one can suddenly make the player drivable when dead.

Noetheinner · Post by **Noetheinner** » 2006-02-11 16:56

dawdler wrote:Would never work. Complex animations like that arent possible on a vehicle (the devs has said so). Besides I dont think one can suddenly make the player drivable when dead.

although having to read old posts would work wonders!

T.Bos · Post by **T.Bos** » 2006-02-11 17:06

i know i am new but there are new players who play the game like its still the normal bf2 poeple stand near flags that arent able to be captured

they run at there own and the where 12 medics in the game and nobody revives you

Money Fist · Post by **Money Fist** » 2006-02-11 17:19

DEFkon wrote: Another would be somehow implimenting a wounded system like OFP where if you got hurt bad, you couldn't stand up.

Flashpoint really was classic

lol just a few ideas

leg shot = 0 stamina
arm shot = fecked accuracy
body shot = decreased turn speed

RazersEdge · Post by **RazersEdge** » 2006-02-11 17:56

I like the way Ghost Recon1 did it. If you got shot in both legs you were no longer useful in any way. I think medics should be able to fix up minor injuries but decreasing accuracy if injured should be a must. If it is possible to implement a positional damage system (You have percentages on EACH major body part and damage to individual parts has different results.) For example if I hit you in both legs I dont think you're gonna be able to keep running up on me and blow me away with your assault rifle. You are going to be screwed plain and simple. And as to what money said. A body shot should cause constant damage to the player and result in less stamina. Also if I have a sucking chest wound... my aim is gonna be VERY off... its kind of natures way of telling you to slow down.

And as for the respawn system I think it would be much better if it was a "Reinforcements" system where you would have to start at the back and then move up to the front. Or for some maps have a high altitude paradrop insertion from a plane or possibly just a set spawn point. We've seen it done in BFV and 1942. And its been done for Special Forces so I dont think it would be such a problem to do it for Reality Mod. Its kind of annoying to kill one guy on the enemy team only for him to spawn back on his leader during a heavy firefight, stand up, and then hit you with a grenade launcher because he figured it would be a useful thing in this firefight.

And grenade launchers could be made more accurate if they were made harder to aim. Same with sniper rifles. Add a system where you have to adjust your sights for distances. This way you have to judge distances accurately and then adjust accordingly. That way if somebody nails you from 500m away its gonna be pure skill in them doing so.
I am of the personal opinion that we need Squad Level sharpshooters as an option instead of snipers. So you'd see something like an M16A2 with an Acog4x. Or an M14 DMR, and for the MEC you'd see... OH WAIT the SVD is meant to be a Squad level weapon anyways! AMAZING! And the chineese would have... What they have already. Maybe we could give the MEC and PLA an equivelant weapon to the M24 for long range. I dont know maybe make the M24 the squad sharpshooter for the americans and add in the M82A1 for the long range shooter (maybe make it so our lovely lil 50cal can disable cars ect from afar)

Odct_Jolly · Post by **Odct_Jolly** » 2006-02-12 03:46

I was teached that the kevlar we used in the swedish army was intended for grenade defence, not bullet-proof.

That is true if you are using standard armour with no ceramic/metal plates but these plates make your armour weight around 50 lbs or so, so an assault soldiers shouldn't be able to sprint much

Sgt. Jarvis · Post by **Sgt. Jarvis** » 2006-02-12 04:15

It's not only kevlar, if it was just kevlar you would have broken ribs and severe internal bleeding, but there's that ceramic plate that lessens the impact for you. Also if the AP round can go through cars, it couldn't be stopped by kevlar...

Anyways, Jesus Christ...I will walk away from this mod if they go semi realistic...I can't stand that that's why I never played FH.

Post by **Happy** » 2006-02-12 22:27

The usefulness of body armor. http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos. ... tent=73563