Explosively formed penetrator (EFP)

[hyraclyon]

Yes, i did use the search function, and no, i was not able to find a topic suggesting the same thing. If this has already been suggested anyway, feel free to delete this topic.

The ieds currently used ingame are way too powerful for their size, i'm sure most of you agree. I mean, the things are tiny, just a bit bigger then a hand grenade. If explosives this small could be as powerful as they are ingame, we could just as well chuck hand grenades at tanks to destroy them. An ied the size of the ones that are currently ingame would maybe destroy a HMMWV, but an apc wouldn't be harmed by it at all. And since PR does everything to be realistic, i believe the damage done by these should be changed. But then the insurgents will lose one of their most important weapons i hear you say. Well, allow me to introduce the EFP:

Explosively formed penetrator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.yaps4u.net/images/USaccusesI ... 1/efp3.jpg

I'm sure most of you already know what they are, if you don't, follow the links. So what i'm basically suggesting here is adding these EFP's into the game as a limited pickup kit (about 2 or 3 on a map the size of Al-basrah, to prevent exploiting), and keep the current IED's for the ambusher class but make them less powerful. But, since EFP's are know to be tank killers, they should be able to destroy any vehicle currently in game. Then to keep the balance, they should be big to make them easier to spot. This way, the only chance to use them effectively would be to put them behind a corner or hide them very well. Please note that i myself am no modder, and i am not asking the devs to put their precious time into this either. But maybe a community modder might be interested to pick this one up. Moddeling it wouldn't be too hard i recon, since most of the model would be a round tube. (Note that in the pic in the second link the EFP has a stand, this is not always the case and is not really needed, but it would make it easier to spot though.)

What i think would be harder though, is code it. Maybe it could be done by that when you detonate it, a rocket equal to the one of the RPG shoots out, but with higher damage. Then the dust effect that is used when building a firebase could also be added, for the sake of realism. (If you don't know what i mean, check out youtube and search for EFP, those things produce a lot of smoke.)

So anyway, if it has already been suggested i apologise, and otherwise feel free to discuss

[Howitzer]

The ieds currently used ingame are way too powerful for their size, i'm sure most of you agree. I mean, the things are tiny, just a bit bigger then a hand grenade. If explosives this small could be as powerful as they are ingame, we could just as well chuck hand grenades at tanks to destroy them. An ied the size of the ones that are currently ingame would maybe destroy a HMMWV,

A lot of the mass of an hand grenade is meant to create fragmentation during the explosion , The explosive charge on an hand grenade must be at least 10 times smaller than a full Ied , book size charge.

[hyraclyon]

So something like an anti-vehicle claymore with a really small angle of effect?

Pretty much, yeah, the only real difference being that he claymore shoots a lot of small projectiles while the EFP launches just one. ( so smaller angle of effect yeah)

A lot of the mass of an hand grenade is meant to create fragmentation during the explosion , The explosive charge on an hand grenade must be at least 10 times smaller than a full Ied , book size charge.

You are right, but still, real-life insurgents most of the time use big artillery shells as IEDS. These create an explosion that is almost equal to the one currently seen in PR, but the PR ieds are not the size (much smaller) of an artillery shell.

[Drav]

the way of modelling it would be that it launches a projectile when detonated, not an explosion....

PS Someone in that Humvee had Lady Luck looking down, a little lower and they would have all been read out on the news.....pretty scary looking thing.....

[Zimmer]

The ieds currently used ingame are way too powerful for their size, i'm sure most of you agree. I mean, the things are tiny, just a bit bigger then a hand grenade. If explosives this small could be as powerful as they are ingame, we could just as well chuck hand grenades at tanks to destroy them. An ied the size of the ones that are currently ingame would maybe destroy a HMMWV, but an apc wouldn't be harmed by it at all. And since PR does everything to be realistic, i believe the damage done by these should be changed. But then the insurgents will lose one of their most important weapons i hear you say.

The IED portrayed in PR was made because they used C4 model as IED's before. So the model is just to portray an actual IED. The size is problibly because the smaller size means less job or they had to do some model who was similar to the C4 so the animation could just be reused. Make believe.

[Drav]

It would still work better being done via the damage system unless it actually goes faster after it hits something.

And I mean a LOT faster, this is not a good idea if the only time it will be noticed is if you hit a fence with it.

Why Jonny? I agree that it would be better wih the damage model, but I can't think how that would easily be achieved. It looks just like a very fast very dangerous rocket launcher anyway. The fact that it misses the humvee in that video shows that the blast radius is small enough to be represented by a projectile. A small fast projectile with a massive effect emitter would do the job nicely I'd ve thought.....

EDIT: Sorry, would make more sense if I posted the video I was talking about!!


http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos. ... 465&page=1

[Bringerof_D]

Pretty much, yeah, the only real difference being that he claymore shoots a lot of small projectiles while the EFP launches just one. ( so smaller angle of effect yeah)



You are right, but still, real-life insurgents most of the time use big artillery shells as IEDS. These create an explosion that is almost equal to the one currently seen in PR, but the PR ieds are not the size (much smaller) of an artillery shell.

but to mention those artillery shell IEDs are either in the trunk of a car, or buried out of sight

[SleepyHe4d]

The ieds currently used ingame are way too powerful for their size

The size of the IED is just to simulate an IED being well hidden, if you have to then just imagine the thing you put down being a cell phone or something for detonation. It's not like they can code it in where you can actually bury huge artillery shells. That's what I've always assumed the reason was for the small IED size at least.

Either way I think your idea would be pretty pointless and not really contribute to gameplay at all. :\ If they did do something like that then it should be the pickup trucks being able to drop the large IEDs.

[Drav]

Sweet, in that case, wanna do it? I'll model the explosive itself if you like......

[hyraclyon]

Either way I think your idea would be pretty pointless and not really contribute to gameplay at all. :\

Gameplay will be affected by it believe me. As a first you will have to hide them better to prevent spotting. Limiting them to about 2 on one map will most certainly promote the use of IED's. RPG's are not very effective in taking out tanks but are still used for it way too much, and the IED's we have now aren't either (they shouldn't be anyway for their size like i already said, but since there is no alternative now...) I myself use them a lot, and the only thing it does to the challenger on al-basrah is kill the guy on the .50, and only if the tank drives right over them, the ied damages the tank significantly enough to be able to take it out with about 2 rpg hits. But adding these EFP's will allow the use of better ambush tactics, and insurgent squads will be able to take the fight to the tanks without dying over and over again. But it should be a rare kit though, since In real life efp's are only used by the better supplied insurgent groups, with mostly foreign connections. You can kind of see it as the heavy AT-kit, but for the insurgents. And used in a different way of course.

Be easier for the DEVs to do it, it will only take about 1/2 an hour at most to make a mock up.

True, but i don't know if the devs like the idea. Maybe a dev can comment on this so that when people start working on the efp and are finished, they don't have to hear that the devs don't want it ingame at all.

[Drav]

I had nothing to do for half an hour so I knocked up a model for this quickly.....

[hyraclyon]

Wow, thats quite impressive for half an hour of work

[hyraclyon]

What the?!?

I though this was a warhead for an RPG, not a new weapon?

Lmao you were talking about it all the time but didn't know what it was? Told ya follow the links

EDIT: to further clarify this: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=760_1211553873
That is the weapon i mean. The vid isn't graphic or anything, i just put it up to show what i mean with the term EFP. And hey, it doesn't even have the **** music these vids usually have