Marksman and Sniper?

[EXP-NoBody]

does their rifle's bullet speed is the same?

and what's the difference between this 2 kit..(i know their rifle and optic is abit different.anything else?)

PS: and i am finally can kill ppl with my rifle (about 7 ppl..not that bad right?)

[Perpetrator]

does their rifle's bullet speed is the same?

and what's the difference between this 2 kit..(i know their rifle and optic is abit different.anything else?)

PS: and i am finally can kill ppl with my rifle (about 7 ppl..not that bad right?)

The search button is your friend. Voila.
Should help you. And try not to make any more threads like your "why can't i hit anyone" thread... it all comes with practice.

[OkitaMakoto]

Sniper for longer ranges, ghillie suit, slightly different kit, should be used with spotter to take out key personnel on the enemy team such as SL's, Medics, and Commanders.

marksman for medium range, standard uniform, slightly different kit, should be a part of a full squad providing cover from more distant targets. Provides more accurate ranged fire for the rest of the squad.

Any more and youd have to wait for someone elses reply.

You could also request each kit and see their loadouts, not to mention the PR wiki pages on the two.
http://guide.realitymod.com/index.php?t ... ion_Rifles

[Ninja2dan]

As is mentioned in other topics, the two kits are completely different in both their roles and the weapons themselves.

As for the ballistics of the projectiles, they should be the same because they are both firing the same round (7.62mm). In real life the sniper rifle will generally be more accurate at range due to the limited recoil of a bolt-action compared to a semi-auto DMR.

Regarding the differences of the two kits, in case you were not able to locate that information in the manual, wiki, or other topics, I will help explain briefly here.

The sniper is part of a small (usually solo or two-man) unit whose primary job is to provide accurate long-ranged observation of targets, with a secondary role of long- and medium-ranged engagement of high-priority targets. Sniper teams will usually travel ahead of the rest of the team, and set up their hide in a location which allows them to watch enemy units and report their actions to their team, allowing friendly units to keep one step ahead of the enemy and to engage them with the proper level of force on their own terms. Sniper teams at times will also cover smaller units while they cross choke points and dangerous terrain, or during firefights the sniper team will engage priority targets that present a greater threat to the other units such as crew-served weapons, officers, other snipers/marksmen, and unbuttoned vehicle crew. A sniper can also act as a forward observer for battlefield support such as artillery and air strikes.

The marksman is pretty much just another infantry soldier, but carries a longer-ranged rifle within his squad. His weapon allows him to spot and engage priority targets further than the rest of his team, often allowing his unit to engage the enemy before their weapons are in range of the markman's unit. A marksman is trained in long-range accurate fire, but is not trained in the other field crafts that snipers are. A marksman will wear the same uniform as his squadmates, not a ghillie suit like snipers often use. You can think of the Designated Marksman as a special weapon soldier just like a SAW gunner or grenadier, his weapon is suited for a specific role WITHIN his squad. Marksmen are in no way meant to operate alone and are best used when they are moving in the same formation as their unit.

As for the weapons that these units use, a sniper will carry an M24 or M40 (or similar, not sure which is in use in PR at this time). This weapon is a bolt-action weapon which has a longer range and slightly slower fire rate than the marksman's rifle. Marksmen are equipped with an M21 or similar, which are semi-auto magazine-fed weapons. Due to the extra recoil and often heavier weight of the marksman rifles, their range is slightly less and are not known to be as accurate when used in the DMR role.

I hope this information helps.

[OkitaMakoto]

But compare the weight and recoil of an AK to an M16 and we might have a flaw in the argument about weight reducing recoil If I understood you correctly that is...

It, of course, depends on much more than simply weight...design and whatnot...

Don't you all DARE start a debate on the m16/ak :glares:

[Alex6714]

But compare the weight and recoil of an AK to an M16 and we might have a flaw in the argument about weight reducing recoil If I understood you correctly that is...

It, of course, depends on much more than simply weight...design and whatnot...

Don't you all DARE start a debate on the m16/ak :glares:

He probably means with the same round.

7.62 is a little bit different from 5.56

[SiN|ScarFace]

m21 and m24 fire the same round.

[OkitaMakoto]

He probably means with the same round.

7.62 is a little bit different from 5.56

ok ok ok... What about.......ummmmmmm ak74 and m16?... or are those different lengths/weighted rounds?

*edit* fires 5.45.... not 5.56....
Curses!

bad example, ok, but Im still gonna say, design, role its designed for, and quality, etc play a large role in the recoil of a weapon

[OkitaMakoto]

The 556 and 762 dif was already pointed out, i cant believe i skipped over that. But im talking generally, no longer just inn this case, that other things come into play

My complete noob mistake on the 556 762 overlook though


typed this one handed, just burned my finger making rice, sorry hehe

[OkitaMakoto]

Well, Ill be first to say im no gun expert but i was always told that a bolts design and materials and the like could have a great impact on the recoil direction/force

Could be wrong though, wouldnt be the first time

[Bob_Marley]

Semiautomatic rifles have lower potential accuracy in theory as they have more worky bits. And worky bits are built to certain tolerances. Now, with a bolt action rifle you have fewer worky bits so a lower overall space for error.

Say, for example, a bolt action rifle has 1 worky bit, while a semi has 5. All tolerances are to 1/1000th of an inch. On the Bolt action there is a potential 1/1000th of an inch variance, on the semi its 5 times that. In most situations it doesn't make much different though.

At least thats what I've been informed is the case in the worky bit - accuracy relationship.

[Ninja2dan]

To better clear up the concerns from my previous statement, I was pointing out that the semi-automatic M21 or M14 has a decreased accuracy than the bolt-action M24 or M40.

Stating that they will both have near-identical accuracy because they both have about the same weight and fire the same rounds is very incorrect, I know this because I have trained and qualified with both weapons during my military service and have also used both during law enforcement work.

The bolt action rifles have minimal moving parts during firing (trigger assembly, etc) compared to the semi-automatic rifles. Although the bolt-action rifle fires slower and generally holds fewer rounds, this is of little concern for a true Sniper. The movement of the bolt assembly during fire of a semi-automatic causes those rifles to fire slightly less accurate at long ranges. Although the ballistics of the rifles should be about the same, I was speaking about the firing accuracy based on additional aspects.

Soldiers using the DMR will not always deploy the rifle in the prone with the bipod extended, while a sniper will always fire his weapon from such a position except under rare conditions. Firing a 7.62mm semi-automatic rifle without fixed support will cause the shots to generally be less accurate, especially due to the recoil and movement of the bolt assembly. As you can see, I was not talking about the accuracy of the base rifles, but the accuracy of the shots in the hands of a soldier and not, for example, when attached to a fixed mount.

A good example is to take an M4A1, and try firing it on semi. As long as you delay each shot slightly, you should have good accuracy when engaging a target at say 150m. Now switch your selector over to auto and fire off a few bursts at the same target. Although it's the same weapon, the accuracy will be greatly different from the semi shots. Another example is to fire the same M4 on semi in the prone supported position, and then fire it in semi from the standing unsupported position. Your accuracy between the two stances will show a difference.

So my point was that a sniper, based on the manner in which they engage their targets, will have a higher level of accuracy than a designated marksman. Both the rifles themselves and the manner in which those weapons are employed will cause the accuracy between the two to vary. Does this now help solve the arguement?

[Ninja2dan]

This is the only thing you said I don't agree with. Its really fundamental that a heavier rifle will have less recoil than a lighter one shooting the same round. Also, a semi auto action will even have less, simply because the energy spent on working the action.

Not to mention weight and recoil have no bering on range capabilities of a cartridge.

Please read my post above yours, for a better summary of my statement and its intent. It is true that with the firearm itself, semi-automatic rifles will present less felt recoil than a bolt-action rifle firing the same round. BUT, in the hands of even the most skilled shooter, semi-automatic long-range rifles have been proven to offer less accurate fire at extended ranges.

While the recoil in a semi-automatic rifle might be slightly less, the forward cycling action of the bolt assembly creates additional movement and those movements cause the weapon to be unsteady until the bolt has fully stopped cycling. Also, bolt-action rifles have minimal moving parts which means less barrel harmonics or movement of the barrel during firing. Due to the assembly and nature of a semi-automatic rifle, the barrel is not as "tight", and the gas tube/etc does interfere with accuracy at those extended ranges.

A short summary of Barrel Harmonics and its effect on accuracy:

From the moment that trigger is pressed and the firing pin strikes the primer until the bullet leaves the muzzle, a series of many vibrational impulses begin in the rifle, all of which are transmitted to the barrel in various magnitudes. These include such minor things as; the trigger sear releasing the firing pin, the firing pin moving forward, striking the primer, and the cartridge being moved forward. The powder then begins to ignite, and the bullet starts moving forward and engages the rifling. Because of the twist of the rifling, the bullet while it is being propelled forward, begins to spin imparting a small but measurable torque, but more importantly as it traverses the barrel it also sets up a circular vibrational pattern, or arc. The heat of the burning powder along with the pressure wave generated by the expanding gasses start another vibrational pattern that is induced into the barrel. All of these movements cause the barrel to stress and vibrate with a number of different harmonic patterns which if not controlled by some means cause each projectile to leave the muzzle at a slightly different point in the vibrational arc. Some people speak about the "whip" of the barrel, which would imply to some, that the barrel simply vibrates up and down like a buggy whip. Although there are some of the vibrations that are traveling in this direction, the main vibrations are circular. If this were not true, then a 3 shot group from a rifle would always be in a vertical string. This would be because, one would leave at the bottom of the "whipping action", one would leave from the center and one from the upper travel of the "whip". As we all know this seldom occurs, and if it does, it is usually caused by the barrel being under a heavy stress, such as way to much pressure exerted against it, caused by improper bedding, usually of the barrel. Most 3 shot groups you will see will be virtually triangular in shape, this is caused because as the barrel vibrates through its "circular arc" one bullet leaves the muzzle at say 12 o’clock, another at say 4 o’clock and the third at maybe 8 o’clock. The larger the arc of the barrel, the less accurate the rifle will be, and the larger the triangle. As a rule the less mass a barrel has, (the thinner) the more it is affected by the vibrations, this is the reason that a "heavy" barrel seems to shoot more consistently than a sporter barrel, and is also easier to tune.

Due to the higher number of parts that are in motion upon firing a semi-automatic, you can see why harmonics are much worse and why accuracy will be effected more than with a bolt-action.

Also, my statement regarding accuracy (as explained in my previous post) was not just about the firearms, but the shooter himself. Both weapons are used in different circumstances, both are often fired from different stances, both are often fired at different rates, etc. The purpose of the DMR is NOT to be as accurate as a "Sniper Rifle", but only to provide an extended-range engagement capability within a squad.

There are many other soldiers, law enforcement professionals, and even hunters on these forums who I can assume have fired both types of weapons. I have little doubt that those same people would agree with me that when you desire maximum accuracy, bolt-action rifles always win. Don't get me wrong, I prefer semi-automatic myself. But having fired pretty much every weapon in the US arsenal, from WW2 to modern, ranging from .22-caliber pistols to 155mm Howitzers, as well as most weapons from non-US nations...I have no doubt in the accuracy of my claims.