How to fix Basrah for online play

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jayceon515
Posts: 436
Joined: 2007-07-24 14:19

How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by jayceon515 »

This is not another suggestion to let you dev guys know that Basrah crashes very often and you should fix is for the next release since I'm sure you already know that. It's rather a post in which I'll try to point out a few things that are very easy to do and make it more stable or fix it completely so it won't crash like back in the 0.6 days.

In 0.6 Basrah was changed significantly (for all you out there that didn't have the chance to try out 0.5 Basrah you have absolutely no idea what you missed). Map got a new game mode and around 1300 objects were added. Including the completely destroyable village.

Some of you may think that there is something wrong with the insurgency mode and that it causes the crashes. Wrong. It's really a coincidence that both insurgency maps - Basrah And Op Archer - crash very often but that's because they both have too many networkable objects.

How I understand the meaning of a networkable objects is that that's an object that you can either move or destroy/kill which means that all networkable objects are: destroyable statics (Afghan village objects, destroyable fences, road signs, destroyable bridges), vehicles, weapons caches, rally points, commander assets, pickup kits, deployable ammo crates from certain vehicles and player models (the little coalition or insurgent soldiers running around the map you're trying to shoot).

Current version of Basrah has 706 destroyable objects (at least that's what the editor says). Now add 15 British vehicles, 38 insurgent vehicles, 15 insurgent rally point which contain one pickup kit, 9 weapons caches (3 at a time) which also contain a pickup kit and player controlled commander assets (some of which spawn another vehicle) and deployable ammo crates and RP's. The number of these on the map and the number of players on the server usually make the difference whether in the end of the round the server will crash or not.

Basrah 32 doesn't crash. That's mostly because there are far less vehicles, insurgent RP's and less weapons caches to destroy. Only the 64 size does and it does quite often.

Now the get to the point of this suggestion (the explanation above is for everyone else who don't know that so you can get the point now).

There are some destroyable statics on the map that don't really affect the gameplay and don't make the map any better just because they are there. I'll only point out the ones that have no lightmaps and would only need to be found and removed.

1) 4 destroyable rail bars at industry that don't really affect the gameplay.
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2) 24 destroyable fences north of industry. I really don't know why they're. They don't make the map look any better or don't affect the gameplay at all. You can't take cover behind etc.
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3) 2 destroyable fences at former Suburbs flag which I remember weren't there in 0.5
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4) another destroyable fence just across the river from hotel. That fence is pretty much useless since it doesn't block you from entering that area.
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5) 2 identical road signs at hotel. There should really be just one. There are quite a few more road signs around the city. Maybe some if them could get removed as well. All of them are destroyable of course.
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6) 2 destroyable fences at former Facility flag. Only the right one shows up in game. The left one isn't there. It only shows up in the editor so if there's only the right one it servers no purpose.
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7) destroyable container door at former South VCP flag. Same as above. It doesn't show up in game only in the editor.
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8) destroyable fence at Suburbs flag. Looks quite weird and has no impact on the gameplay. There's another one just down this alley or whatever this is.
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9) 4 destroyable sandbags on both sides of the bridge just north of VCP. I never really understood why they are there. Server no purpose and since they are destroyable you can't really take cover behind.
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Let me remind you that every networkable object counts :wink: Especially on the server where it means if the server population is above 40 players at the end of the round it will most likely crash. I know this first hand since I'm an admin.

And as I've already said in another thread some insurgent vehicles should get removed. They have 38 vehicles including the boat which is useless and pretty unrealistic. Dirt bikes should IMO go too. They're useless since the don't serve their purpose of driving of road because they explode and also promote very unrealistic tactic - ambusher on the back seat dropping IED's next to the tank and the driving away blowing the tank up. Definitely happens in Iraq everyday. Not!

And there's another suggestion unrelated to the one above. Basrah sky was changed after 0.4 and 0.5 but now we have this ugly lightning for 2 releases. I think it's about time to change that to make it fell "fresh". It only takes about 2 o 3 seconds to put a sky.con in the server.zip.

Current Basrah lightning:
ImageImageImageImage
Very bright sky and terrain against very dark buildings. Very realistic :roll:

Current Basrah with 0.5 lightning (got it from 0.5 Basrah from SP map pack)
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Same view distance, a bit thicker fog that makes it feel more dusty and more realistic lightning for buildings. Brings back the good memories of 0.5 aka the "golden age" of Basrah. :rolleyes: I tested this 0.5 Basrah sky.con and on the same video settings I had more FPS than with the current sky.con

Also note the color of the Challenger on 0.5 lightning.
Compared to this RL picture taken in 2003 in Basrah.
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Sorry for the long post. Hope it is constructive enough and I want some replies from the devs.
Outlawz7
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 17261
Joined: 2007-02-17 14:59

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Outlawz7 »

I endorse :thumbsup:

Perhaps some of the Insurgent vehicles could be removed and the rest would have shorter life and respawn time to compensate?
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tanky
Posts: 202
Joined: 2008-03-29 13:12

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by tanky »

I must get lucky as i never see crashes on Basrah and I play it alot, but Op Archer crashes every round without fail...shame coz its a freaking awesome map! ...well then again i would prob love an empty un-textured room (without windows or a door) for a map, so long as it had insurgency mode on it! lol
Shiftys1023
Posts: 109
Joined: 2007-07-31 21:48

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Shiftys1023 »

I like 0.5 more coz it looks more iraqi. And tanky you must have been playing on empty servers :lol:
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Flanker15
Posts: 266
Joined: 2007-02-23 09:37

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Flanker15 »

I endorse aswell!
I like the lighting change and anything that lets me play Barash again is good.
Help Project Reality in Australia, join the bigD community!
http://www.bigdgaming.net/
Blackie
Posts: 169
Joined: 2008-02-17 15:35

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Blackie »

Dont you DARE take away my dirtbike !!!! :evil: :-)
Rhino
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 47909
Joined: 2005-12-13 20:00

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Rhino »

we have and still are fixing up basrah and the ins mode to be a lot more stable :)
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SuperTimo
Posts: 2079
Joined: 2007-07-31 09:25

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by SuperTimo »

if you put a typhooon on it all problems will cease immedietly :D
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jayceon515
Posts: 436
Joined: 2007-07-24 14:19

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by jayceon515 »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:we have and still are fixing up basrah and the ins mode to be a lot more stable :)
You said that before 0.756 patch was released...
And you know as well as I do that ins mode has nothing to do with the crashes. 0.613 wasn't crashing at all.
What about that sky? Can we get something new to make it look more fresh? It takes less time to do that than eat a candy.
Rhino
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 47909
Joined: 2005-12-13 20:00

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Rhino »

jayceon515 wrote:You said that before 0.756 patch was released...
And you know as well as I do that ins mode has nothing to do with the crashes. 0.613 wasn't crashing at all.
What about that sky? Can we get something new to make it look more fresh? It takes less time to do that than eat a candy.
ye but at the same time we kinda did lots of changes that I wasn't fully aware of which had a negative impact on it, mainly to the game mode itself with random RPs etc. Now the team is fully aware of the probs etc.

If you give me the new sky.con ill shove it in :)
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jayceon515
Posts: 436
Joined: 2007-07-24 14:19

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by jayceon515 »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:If you give me the new sky.con ill shove it in :)
Sure thing :-)

Code: Select all

Lightmanager.init
Lightmanager.skycolor 0.588235/0.647059/0.694118
Lightmanager.ambientcolor 0.670588/0.745098/0.945098
Lightmanager.sunColor 0.913726/0.862745/0.662745
Lightmanager.sunSpecColor 0.952941/0.956863/0.890196
if v_arg1 == BF2Editor
LightSettings.TerrainSunColor 0.75/0.75/0.75
LightSettings.TerrainSkyColor 1.00/1.00/1.00
LightmapSettings.waterSunIntensity 0.8
else
terrain.sunColor 0.75/0.75/0.75
terrain.GIColor 1.00/1.00/1.00
terrain.waterSunIntensity 0.8
endIf
Lightmanager.staticSunColor 0.68/0.62/0.55
Lightmanager.staticSpecularColor 0.96/0.96/0.89
Lightmanager.staticSkyColor 0.79/0.79/0.79
Lightmanager.singlePointColor 0.92/0.91/0.89
Lightmanager.sunDirection -0.458512/-0.817348/-0.348868
Lightmanager.enableSun 1
Lightmanager.effectSunColor 0.94/0.93/0.89
Lightmanager.effectShadowColor 0.63/0.62/0.58
Lightmanager.defaultEffectLightAffectionFactor 1
Lightmanager.hemilerpbias 0
hemiMapManager.setBaseHemiMap Levels/operation_full_clip/groundhemi 0.000000/0.000000/0.000000 2048.000000 500.000000
Lightmanager.treeAmbientColor 0.85/0.87/0.88
Lightmanager.treeSunColor 0.48/0.64/0.38
Lightmanager.treeSkyColor 0.78/0.66/0.54

if v_arg1 == BF2Editor
else
run /Common/Sky/SkyDome/skydome.con
run /Common/Sky/Flare/flaresprite.con
endIf

Skydome.skyTemplate skydome
Skydome.cloudTemplate cloudlayer
Skydome.hasCloudLayer 1
Skydome.hasCloudLayer2 1
Skydome.scrolldirection 0.02/0.01
Skydome.scrolldirection2 0.015/0.015
Skydome.cloudTexture common\textures\cloud\Cloud06
Skydome.cloudTexture2 common\textures\cloud\Cloud02
Skydome.skyTexture common\textures\sky\skycloudy01
Skydome.domeRotation 180
Skydome.fadeCloudsDistances 500/800
Skydome.cloudLerpFactors 0.65/0.48
Skydome.flareTexture common\textures\sunflare\lens_corona01
Skydome.flareDirection -0.46/-0.82/-0.35

Renderer.fogColor 209.00/194.00/163.00
Renderer.fogStartEndAndBase 0.00/340.00/2.00/0.60

I changed the view distance from 350 which was in 0.5 to 340 which is used currently so there won't be any other change except the lightning :-)

At least reconsider the other suggestions about those destroyable fences and stuff. I really want to make sure this map doesn't crash in the future releases.

Looking forward to 0.8 :-)
fuzzhead
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 7463
Joined: 2005-08-15 00:42

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by fuzzhead »

Thanks for the post jayceon515.

Indeed, basrah and op archer crashes because of the hard limit of networkable objects in BF2.

Its funny you post this, as I only just a few days ago completed an audit on Al Basrah. Well, the networkable count is basically cut 2/3's by my audit so we are hoping it is playable once again :

Ill respond to your list:

1) Done.
2) Done.
3) Keeping them.
4) Done.
5) All road signs removed (like you said, anything for stability, esp. stuff that does not affect gameplay whatsoever)
6) thanks I will look into why this is happening
7) will look into
8) replaced.
9) will look into

sky.con... good idea, im no art guy, i know some prefer 0.5 some prefer 0.6..... i would like to see a whole new sky anyways, liek you said, spice it up, so it feels new!

in addition to the changes above, we have gone QUITE a bit further to reduce the amount of networkables.

- removed the random insurgent rallypoint system. insurgents will use a new spawning system that does not rely so heavily on networkable objects (there was over 100 rallypoints created with the old system). more info be posted up when this new system is finalizied.

- all helmand buildings replaced with non-destroyable ones. this was 300 networkable objects in itself. this will cause alot of bitching, but we feel its necesary for server stability. the afghan (kashan) single destroyables and wall pieces will still be kept the same. The main problem with the helmand buildings was that each building consisted anywhere from 6-20 destroyables, which quickly add up..

- theres a bunch of other destroyables that were removed. basically anywhere that we could cut networkables out, we did. stuff that is good for gameplay we kept, like blocking doorways and stuff like that.

Thanks for this thread, its both insightful (for new guys) helpful to devs, and overall a pleasant read. I wish there were more threads that were like this, instead of filled with spam most the time :P

any other questions just ask away jayceon.
Rhino
Retired PR Developer
Posts: 47909
Joined: 2005-12-13 20:00

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Rhino »

jayceon515 wrote:At least reconsider the other suggestions about those destroyable fences and stuff. I really want to make sure this map doesn't crash in the future releases.

Looking forward to 0.8 :-)
We have already removed a load of dest fences, stop signs etc. We are keeping some dest fences that have a impact on gameplay, like ones covering driveways and allyways which must be destroyed for players to reach them which is good, but most of the ones like the ones in the industry have been removed.
[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:- all helmand buildings replaced with non-destroyable ones. this was 300 networkable objects in itself. this will cause alot of bitching, but we feel its necesary for server stability. the afghan (kashan) single destroyables and wall pieces will still be kept the same. The main problem with the helmand buildings was that each building consisted anywhere from 6-20 destroyables, which quickly add up..
have you already done that? thought you wanted me to do that? Will get the LMs fixed for it :)
Last edited by Rhino on 2008-07-19 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Scot
Posts: 9270
Joined: 2008-01-20 19:45

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Scot »

Swweeet! DEVs rule!
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Sabre_tooth_tigger
Posts: 1922
Joined: 2007-06-01 20:14

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Sabre_tooth_tigger »

some insurgent vehicles should get removed. They have 38 vehicles including the boat which is useless and pretty unrealistic.

I'd like insurgents to keep their boat, I've read they do use them and maybe allied forces get one also.

Its shame the boat will not pass under all the bridges so it could be used to cross the map in an alternative way since the riverbanks create a natural cover to movement


BAGHDAD, April 24, 2006 —
The Tigris River runs through Baghdad and, with more than 35 miles of waterways in the Baghdad area, many coalition advisors and Iraqis believe this is the major supply route for insurgents. Until recently, it has gone virtually unprotected.

We believe that the insurgents have been using the rivers as a means of transporting their supplies because there are no checkpoints and no one on the water to stop them,”
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/a ... 06dg1.html
Last edited by Sabre_tooth_tigger on 2008-07-19 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
jayceon515
Posts: 436
Joined: 2007-07-24 14:19

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by jayceon515 »

I'm really glad you lead DEVs agree with me on this crucial point I was trying to make and the map is most likely going to work as it should in the future :-)
I guess everything that had to be said here is done and this thread can be locked so you can avoid unnecessary spam that mostly comes into this kind of threads.

0.8 is IMO going to be the best PR release ever. Really looking forward to it :-)
Cyrax-Sektor
Posts: 1030
Joined: 2007-10-15 21:12

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by Cyrax-Sektor »

New spawn system for the Insurgents? :o Good to know for people making Insurgent maps. :) Must say Insurgency is my favorite game mode, and Basrah my favorite map. Great news regarding Ins. .8.
White Rock
Posts: 181
Joined: 2008-07-19 23:04

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by White Rock »

- all helmand buildings replaced with non-destroyable ones. this was 300 networkable objects in itself. this will cause alot of bitching, but we feel its necesary for server stability. the afghan (kashan) single destroyables and wall pieces will still be kept the same. The main problem with the helmand buildings was that each building consisted anywhere from 6-20 destroyables, which quickly add up..
The two story buildings in village and slums right? Its sad to see them go, it's so awesome using ieds to blow one of them up and walking trought the wreck to count the bodies. :(

Is there ANY chance of them being left in? in a modefied state and so on?
combatwombat
Posts: 165
Joined: 2008-04-17 01:24

Re: How to fix Basrah for online play

Post by combatwombat »

White Rock wrote:The two story buildings in village and slums right? Its sad to see them go, it's so awesome using ieds to blow one of them up and walking trought the wreck to count the bodies. :(

Is there ANY chance of them being left in? in a modefied state and so on?
I have to agree - I really like having destructible buildings. Nothing makes you feel like you are in a warzone than buildings getting blown to pieces all around you by tank shells and RPGs...

Making these buildings indestructible might also change the balance slightly: I've found that destroying the village/slum with heavy guns makes it a lot easier for infantry to go in. With indestructible huts, insurgents would have a bit of a leg up
Last edited by combatwombat on 2008-07-20 02:38, edited 1 time in total.
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