Possible solution to civie kills....

[RCMoonPie]

Right now on the insurgent modes......civies are pretty much shot all to hell.
Yes there are punitive damages for doing so.....but they arent harsh enough to curb the behavior.(in my and others opinions)

I propose this:
Create a "civie class" on the Brit side.
Make it a selectable, yet limited kit so it isnt abused.

It would look the same as the civie on the insurgent side with the exact same load-out....with one exception.....the brit civie carries a knife as well.
This would be used for obtaining information from enemy civies.

It would curb killing civies since the biggest reason/excuse for civie casualties is not being able to see if a player is a civie or an insurgent due to draw distance.
Most people take that 50/50 chance and gamble that it is an insurgent.
Brit side would be forced to observe the civie's actions before engaging.

With this proposal....you might be killing a friendly civie.
It would then also count as a TK.
I would also make it so that if this occurs.....the player instantly dies and respawns at the main symbolizing an arrest, much like what is in the current game now.....but with less tolerance.

Insurgents could of course kill the Brit civie....but they take a chance on a TK as well. They would have to observe the civie;'s actions to make sure they werent aiding the Brit side.

This would work for both sides.
It would keep the Brits always checking their fire.
It would also keep the insurgent civie class a little more honest to their role, and acting a little less "brave" as they would have to be watching their backs from people that look like them selves.

Discuss.

[Conman51]

the only way i can see this as real is liek a mercanary group, blackwater...but i dont even think they do that....i just say check your fire...and if u hit a civie...force him to take a field dressing!!!!..throw it at him!!!!..cuz he wont want to heal him self so u can get punished

[RCMoonPie]

This thread has NOTHING to do with mercenaries or anything of the like.
Do not redirect the thread please.

[Anderson29]

i say take the rocks away..... i tell u that any person throwing rocks at a soldier in a fire fight would be killed and with out any punishment to the soldier. becasue the way civis play in game is just ****. i think they should just be taken out of the game mode. civis, with out a doubt are the most unrealistic aspect of this game. and i think the punishment is tough enough cuz alll civis do is runn into oncoming fire and dive on grenades and attack soldiers with rocks...need i say more?

[RCMoonPie]

I think the rocks have a place in this game and i think the damage is adaquate.

But to improve on your suggestions....

I think civies should be given a empty place in their kit.....symbolizing that they are empty handed.
Next.....make it so they can be killed if they are "aiding the insurgency"

Empty handed civie = good civie.
Civie carrying rocks, binos, wrench, bandages, hook = bad civie.

I would also bring back the ability to shoot a civie on a rope.....this would cut back on those who abuse the ability by climbing and standing on light poles.

But....this thread is about Brit civie player as described above.

[NiGHTWoLF]

Having brit civis wont fix the problem your trying to solve. You'l just end up with more tk's. The idea of moving someone back to main is pretty poo too, unless it was an extreme show of aggression in RL a tank gunner/soldier, woudlnt be arrested mid firefight.

[RCMoonPie]

Having brit civis wont fix the problem your trying to solve. You'l just end up with more tk's.

So.....youre saying you think people will just keep firing regardless of whether it was an enemy civie or a friendly civie?
I respectfully disagree.....if integrated......
TK's would be punishable and also further inflict loss of points for the individual as well as the team.
The idea forces people to check and double check their fire when it comes to civies or insurgents.
So only those who fire indiscriminately need worry about punishment....or (hopefully) getting booted from a server for repeated infractions.
IMHO...We dont need that type of player in PR anyway.

The idea of moving someone back to main is pretty poo too, unless it was an extreme show of aggression in RL a tank gunner/soldier, woudlnt be arrested mid firefight.

This element.....whether you think it is "RL" or not......is already in game.
This is what happens when 3 civies are killed.
My proposal is less tolerance for those who would kill the proposed "friendly civie".

[Threedroogs]

the only time i kill civis is when they climb up something and are spotting the hell out of my squad and throwing rocks and generally screwing everything up. i just aim and fire and take my extra minute spawn time. the extra minute doesnt mean anything to me so it's no big deal. i would like to see a 2+ minute spawn penalty for killing a civi, although that still wouldnt stop me in the situation above.

sometimes civis put themselves into positions where it is very clear they are working with insurgents and getting my boys killed. in these situations, they are legitimate targets.

[ostupidman]

Like I have said before...many times...and I'm sure there are people who want me to stop saying it. Civies are not civies at all. They are unarmed combatants.

[RCMoonPie]

the only time i kill civis is when they climb up something and are spotting the hell out of my squad and throwing rocks and generally screwing everything up. i just aim and fire and take my extra minute spawn time. the extra minute doesnt mean anything to me so it's no big deal. i would like to see a 2+ minute spawn penalty for killing a civi, although that still wouldnt stop me in the situation above.

sometimes civis put themselves into positions where it is very clear they are working with insurgents and getting my boys killed. in these situations, they are legitimate targets.

I agree....as mentioned above.....the game model should be revamped to where there are times when civies can be killed.

But I still think it needs to "hurt" a little more when you kill a civie.
Maybe the entire squad should be punished as well.
Maybe this act of group punishment/embarrassment will somewhat curb the infraction some.
At the same time something needs to be done about curbing the "superman civie" way of playing.

What about creating another civie class for the insurgents as well?
What about an "unarmed" civie?
The rock throwing, binocular weilding civie could now be killed....but carries with it minimal punishment.(as is now)

But the "unarmed civie" would carry max punishment...instant arrest....no kit selection....cant leave the main-base for 5 minutes maybe?
They could only be killed without punishment while driving/riding a vehicle with other occupants. If riding alone.....you are punished.
"Is that a bombcar.....or just a civie on his way to evening prayer?"
It would keep you guessing and randomize the situation a little more instead of just shooting all cars.

But what would the unarmed civie's role be in the game?

[sharpshooter]

I think the civies are fine now, and we just need more harsh punishment for killing them, instead of after killing 4 of them you die make it now 2.

[RCMoonPie]

Like I have said before...many times...and I'm sure there are people who want me to stop saying it. Civies are not civies at all. They are unarmed combatants.

You are only half correct.

What if I chose the civie class and just stood there in front of a building next to the street?
Does that make me a combatant?
My actions certainly arent "combative".

It isnt until I have been observed actively aiding the insurgency(throwing rocks,spotting targets, fixing vehicles, etc) that I am considered a combatant.....and only then can I be considered part of the insugency.

Thats why I proposed being able to kill only those insurgents who are in the act of aiding the insurgency....
Civies with something in their hands.
Rocks.....being thrown.
wrench.....fixing vehicles
binos......spotting targets
bandages......healing insurgents(possible grey line here....could be self healing)
hook.....allowing insurgents to gain higher ground.

This way civies would stay hidden while doing these things and not be so bold out in the street.
Just standing around wouldnt get me killed.......but standing on top of a building(or light-post) with binoculars out would.

[Enderjmu]

hm... too bad we can't have AI Actors... couldn't you make something like the Birds that flee when you get too close? except civilian cars that move along a track by default, and stop once you enter a cone extending 10m in front of the car. Rather than activating when you get too close, they stop when you get too close or they get too close to another vehicle.

hardcoded, probably. and it'd be a lag-fest since it's another set of Networkable Objects in Insurgency... methinks.

and what's the purpose of Civilians, except as Medics and Vehicle Repair (meaning collaborating with the insurgents, meaning you can shoot them, I think?)

I say either shoot 'em or remove 'em. they don't serve a purpose other than British Tickets and Insurgent Help.


Although having a British Civilian is good, but it'd only encourage civilians to stick with their gun-toting friends, jumping on Grenades for them, spotting for them, repairs, medic... if you just have empty-handed civilians, it's useless! it's not as if you can go and eat lunch in BF2. If there are empty-handed civilians, but you KNOW that they've been aiding the insurgency...

Just having empty-handed civilians ruins the fun! I'd say little-to-no penalty for shooting them (i.e. if you kill 10 during the whole round, you're disabled of kits for the rest of the round), but you can still arrest them for Tickets.

[M_Striker]

uhhh.. why are the british carrying civilians onto the front lines anyways? it's not like the army drags along civilians for help ??:

[Enderjmu]

hah, that'd be funny... if this was 1799 India, then the british could carry along a miles-long trail of Civilians into a foreign land!

Although in this case it'd be a British Collaborator, rather than an Insurgent Collaborator.

[Enderjmu]

hah, that'd be funny... if this was 1799 India, then the british could carry along a miles-long trail of Civilians into a foreign land!

Although in this case it'd be a British Collaborator, rather than an Insurgent Collaborator.

[Grizzly]

Allied Civie = Reporter, I know it has been suggested before but do the opposite thing when a Reporter is killed add 10 tickets to the Allied team. I picture the insurgency game mode as the allied tickets represent the backing of the war from civilian population, do your job war goes good and if you don't find anything and just keep getting killed war goes bad. My reasoning is that if a Reporter is killed it would bump the backing for the war. This is just my interpretation of how tickets affect the teams.

[ostupidman]

Your right MoonPie. What I meant that the way they are used civies are unarmed combatants. No one just sits around on a corner with a civie during play....unless they are AFK lol. The way in which they are used and depicted ingame they would be fired upon like all the rest.

[Bringerof_D]

man with a rock is just as deadly on the battlefield as a man with a knife, heck he's worse cause he's got better range! and infinite ammo.

ok i agree that the civi class should either lose the binoculars, or be completely removed. i doubt anyone who conciders themselves truely to be a neutral, would be spotting and giving info and intel to one side, not to mention the fact that they arnt huddled in a corner of their homes praying or running for their lives the other way instead of charging at you with rocks.

i would however like to see this if only for just a short period of time to see how this works, it might work well as well makes the game a little bit more fun. it would show the whole neighbor against neighbor thing in politcal situations like this. as well the brit civi with the knife isnt arresting, more like reporting him to the british to be arrested.