Phasing out the Spec Ops Kit?

[Tirak]

I was playing Assault on Mestia today and was debating on taking the Spec Ops kit, I find it very useful on that map as engagement ranges are far shorter and the explosives can put a dent in militia defenses. Anyway, I suddenly realized, although many of you may have already thought of this, that the Engineer is really the poor mans Spec Ops, and now, with the addition of Aimpoints/EOTechs/Whatever sights to augment the ironsights, the advantage of the more user friendly sight of the Spec Ops kit is negated. This brought me down the path that the Spec Ops is beginning to take second seat to a well balanced squad, his GLTD is also operated by an Officer as is the sidearm, his C4 and Rifle are nearly duplicated by the Engineer and lets face it, nobody uses the SLAMs.

So my question is this, do you believe this is a conscious attempt by the Devs to phase out the Spec Ops kit, or am I just reading too much into things, and what could be added, if anything, to the Spec Ops kit to make it worth using.

[steve_06-07]

I use the SLAMS FYI, and last time I checked I'm a somebody, but you're pretty much right, the Spec Ops is just a manifestation(big word) of 2 kits (Officer and Engineer) into 1. Maybe give the Spec Ops something that NO OTHER kit has, or get rid of it.

[DarthDisco]

the Spec Ops is just a manifestation(big word) of 2 kits (Officer and Engineer) into 1.

But that's the point. Special Operations soldiers are supposed to be multi-purpose units who are trained and equipped to complete a variety of tasks. In PR currently, these tasks include but are not limited to: Infiltration, Reconnaissance, Demolitions, Close Quarters Combat, Forward Observation, and Assassination.

Now It is true that several of these roles can also be performed by other PR kits, and some of them even do them better. But none of them are as versatile, and there in lies the strength of the Spec Ops kit. Like a Sniper, Special Operations soldiers are "force multipliers" which means that they are capable of performing, with a small force, missions that would otherwise require a much large number of troops.

Utilized appropriately, the Spec Ops should be a boon for any team fielding it in PR. Players using the kit should focus on staying attuned to the layout and position of friendly squads and re-evaluate their role on the battlefield accordingly; Big assault going down? Get your SOFLAM up and spot enemy troop movements. All quiet on the front? Keep it that way by sneaking into the enemy rear and destroying assets. Got some teammates looking to start a party? Use your grapple to help them get over walls and then your carbine to help clear tight spaces.

The moral of the story is that, as PR kits become more and more specialized, the Special Ops, ironically, remains one of the few kits capable of multi-role actions. Continue to use it in that fashion, and all will be right with the world... Unless something is changing for Spec Ops in 0.8 in which case none of this means anything.

[Harrod200]

Maybe give the Spec Ops something that NO OTHER kit has, or get rid of it.

Ever hear of the grapple?

On certain maps, the engineer has a grapple but the Spec Op always has it. On maps like EJOD or Qwai, that grapple opens up many possibilities. Bypassing enemy defences by going over them, or simply taking the high ground...Unless I have vehicles in my squad, I'll take a Spec Op member over an Engi any day.

[Tirak]

@ Disco:
The Engineer can do anything the Spec Ops can, and in some ways better, except for mark targets with a GLTD, but there's so few maps that support the use of the GLTD, that's almost a non issue. A disciplined player will be able to get the same milage out of a Mountineer Engineer as a Spec Ops Kit if not more so. The Spec Ops kit as a sidearm, but using it is pointless as your carbine will be more effective and the moment you kill someone, they'll inform their squad so the silenced part of it is fairly useless. The Carbine has an easier to use sight and is fully automatic, but so is every other basic infantry rifle except for the US Army and Marines, whoes burst fire mode emulates how a player would use the automatic mode in the same way. The C4 is a staple of the Engineer class, and while you can make a case that the SLAMs give him a decided advantage in explosive power, it is rare a Spec Ops player can survive long enough to need to use his entire complement of explosives, add to that the inability to control their detonation and allowing you to retreat from the area before detonating your charges, and they become more of a liability than an asset to a Spec Ops player who is playing in iconic Spec Ops fashion. Some have made the argument that the Grappling Hook is another huge advantage, but the Mountineer Engineer type has the same hook, and when he doesn't have that, he's got his shotgun to breach doors and barriers that most other infantry try to find other ways around, add in the Engineers AT Mine to allow him to reign even more havok in the middle of the enemies motorpool, and the Spec Ops seems to be at a disadvantage.

[fuzzhead]

Spec Ops will be MUCH more useful in v0.8...

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

[maverick551]

Gotta love the devs and all their mischief.

I for one am very happy to hear this. The Spec ops class, if used appropriately, can really disrupt the enemy in many ways. Glad to hear that they have not been overlooked for .8!

[Harrod200]

Spec Ops will be MUCH more useful in v0.8...

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

Call it "Unarmed Field Surgeon". Nobody'll ever use that.

[Tirak]

SOB Kit- Special Operations Battalion.

[Conman51]

Spec Ops will be MUCH more useful in v0.8...

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

maybe some thing like comanders body guard or sum thing

nah maybe like demo man

[Scot]

Call it Grunts Toyboy... thats gonna put everyone off!!

[rangedReCon]

Just call it "The most awesome kit on the face of this virtual planet" reverse psychology FTW!

[SGT.JOKER]

Spec Ops will be MUCH more useful in v0.8...

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

The dev's have spoken!

and thats very good to hear

[Waaah_Wah]

@ Disco:
The Engineer can do anything the Spec Ops can, and in some ways better, except for mark targets with a GLTD, but there's so few maps that support the use of the GLTD, that's almost a non issue. A disciplined player will be able to get the same milage out of a Mountineer Engineer as a Spec Ops Kit if not more so. The Spec Ops kit as a sidearm, but using it is pointless as your carbine will be more effective and the moment you kill someone, they'll inform their squad so the silenced part of it is fairly useless. The Carbine has an easier to use sight and is fully automatic, but so is every other basic infantry rifle except for the US Army and Marines, whoes burst fire mode emulates how a player would use the automatic mode in the same way. The C4 is a staple of the Engineer class, and while you can make a case that the SLAMs give him a decided advantage in explosive power, it is rare a Spec Ops player can survive long enough to need to use his entire complement of explosives, add to that the inability to control their detonation and allowing you to retreat from the area before detonating your charges, and they become more of a liability than an asset to a Spec Ops player who is playing in iconic Spec Ops fashion. Some have made the argument that the Grappling Hook is another huge advantage, but the Mountineer Engineer type has the same hook, and when he doesn't have that, he's got his shotgun to breach doors and barriers that most other infantry try to find other ways around, add in the Engineers AT Mine to allow him to reign even more havok in the middle of the enemies motorpool, and the Spec Ops seems to be at a disadvantage.

The spec ops kit has 3 times more explosives than the engineer kit. The silencer is useful as hell at times, coz the enemy wont be able to find out where it came from. 3 field dressings make it much easier to survive with little to no backup, and the carbine is better than an assault rifle at close range (IMO).

Also, SLAMs > C4. All you have to do with a SLAM, is put it there and it will blow up in 60 sec. Even if they kill you right after you put it on a bunker, it will still blow up.

[cyberzomby]

Nice! Curious as hell to all the new classes that will be much more usefull!

[Outlawz7]

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

Call it 'medic'.

[musp3r]

now we just have to think of a name that doesnt attract such smacktarded players..

Call it a scout...innocent young scout-boy.

[gazzthompson]

nah maybe like demo man

he said doesnt attract

[Scot]

Call it Timo... no one on Earth could be attracted to that



JOKES!!

[Ironcomatose]

Awesome to hear that fuzz. Im sure you guys will think of a name with no trouble.

@ TheScott, where has timo been BTW? Have not seen him around for a bit.