Suicide Missions

[Salah ad Din]

Hello PR community.

Over in the Tournament forums, there is an ongoing discussion, whether the use of Suicide Tactics should be allowed for regular armies and the Militia, or not. Insurgents are of course entitled to these actions, but what about MEC, PLA, Brits, USMC, US Army and Militias?

I would like to hear the opinions of the non-PRT-community on this.

First, whether you think it should be allowed in the Tournament Rules, second, what is your opinion on using these tactics on a public server (compare with H-AT sniping rules on some servers).

Here are some links, that prove that regular armies actually DO have Suicide Units that are especially trained for this kind of tatctics:

Iran suicide bombers ‘ready to hit Britain’ - Times Online
israelinsider: diplomacy: Sunday Times: 40,000 Iran suicide bombers ready to hit US, UK targets
Qods (Jerusalem) Force, Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC - Pasdaran) Iran Intelligence
War with Iran would be Navy, Air Force show - Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Army Times
Iran navy in suicide attack pledge - CNN.com
Iran's Suicide Brigades: Terrorism Resurgent - Middle East Quarterly
http://www.meforum.org/article/1059

[cyberzomby]

I dont think the regular army's should use it. Maybe the MEC but Its just weird to waste all those resources and moneyz on a suicide attack. Insurgent stuff is MUCH less costly so it wont be a big problem if they lose some in a good self destruct!

I also dont like HAT sniping. A thousand dollar costing missile against a regular infantry man instead of a tank? Thats crazy

[Salah ad Din]

Did you read the links? Also, one ticket and a Vodnik are very cheap compared to an Abrams MBT.

[torenico]

I do my own suicide attacks on PR.. fun as hell, those guys running whit SKS and AK's.. i remember that.. my buddies running and getting shot.. on Mestia.. obiusly it was an old Version..

[cyberzomby]

I did see the links there. Thats why I said: MEC maybe.

[Rudd]

I would say no suicide missions

Generally soldiers won't do stuff that has no chance of them coming back alive?
Iran is an exception due to the lengths it had to go to defeat Iraq "the army of god"

HAT sniping is fine because:
1) It takes teamwork
2) If you arent aware you can easily be ambushed
3) It requires lots and lots of ammo to be continuous

I would like to hear the opinions of the non-PRT-community on this.

I'm giving Salah ad Din a bit of credit that between is own memory and the fact I have a campaign ribbon in my sig he can figure out I was in C6, moreover I held the above opinion b4 I joined the PRT for the reasons stated, my opinion has not changed, so I'll bloody well say my opinion

[Spaz]

I would say no beacuse its a stupied tacit I don't care if they do it IRL I just think its stupied.

[Masaq]

Nick0, any member of these forums can post. If someone posts a thread in here, it's open to everyone - PRT or not. Got that?

That said, this thread cannot be purely about about the PRT, because PRT issues need to be debated in the PRT forum... AFAIC, it's open to everyone as a general debate on suicide tactics in-game and how they relate to RL.

As soon as it becomes a moaning session about the PR Tournament, it's getting locked. I'm not having any arguments/discussions from the PRT spilling out into the main forums.

[Sadist_Cain]

I would say not

I'd say that the scenarios we have with regular armys are such that they do not warrent suicide tactics and that it just serves to disorganise and N00b up a server

[M_Striker]

yeah, i would say no. Plus. pretty much all of those link point to suiciding Iranians? Of course Iranians...

[steve_06-07]

They should have suicide bombers dressed as insurgent civilians(maybe a MINOR difference in the way they look), they carry rocks and everything like a regular civilian, but they also have a detonator to blow themselves up!

[fuzzhead]

Define suicide tactics. Please mention as many specific scenarios as possible.

[steve_06-07]

Like a suicide bomber, a human wave attack, suicide car bombs, kamikazes etc.

[Cyrax-Sektor]

A public player's opinion: I think it shouldn't be allowed, or at least discouraged, for conventional forces, but I think the Militia and Insurgents should get to do it. They're not fighting by normal means, and it adds some spice for both sides.

I believe on the Tactical Gamer server, suicide tactics are not permitted, except for the Insurgents. It "forces" realism, because I don't think the Marines rig a Humvee with C4 and drive it to enemy forces.

Suicide tactics:

-Attaching C4/SLAMs to the front of a vehicle and ramming an enemy vehicle or getting out and detonating.

-Crashing the jet/helicopter into an enemy target.

-Placing IEDs/C4/SLAMs on yourself and detonating when enemies are nearby.

-Jumping around dropping nades on the floor, avoiding fire, taking as many with you as possible and eventually killing self.

-Grenade launching the floor in front of yourself, taking as many as you can.

-Placing a mine, waiting for it to "set" and driving over it yourself in a vehicle to kill infantry.

[Conman51]

would suicide tactics also caount as

-ordering you and your troops to go into a impossible situation and getting all killed??

-the only suicide tactic taht i see appropiate is throwing your self on a grenade to save buddies...but not to kill...theres other ways of killing..like aiming your gun and not firing from the hip like insurgents do

[janh95]

suicide tactics.
if u mean like realistic ones.
-put a bomb under you cloths as a normal civilian walking to a US/GB patrol/checkpoint/w.e and detonate it
-get a car with a bomb and drive it to a checkpoint/patrol like a normal car and booom!!

[fuzzhead]

-Attaching C4/SLAMs to the front of a vehicle and ramming an enemy vehicle or getting out and detonating.

In v0.8 this will be VERY not worthwhile. no longer an issue.

-Crashing the jet/helicopter into an enemy target.

If your stupid enough to do this you should be kicked from the server/tournament. This is complete vanilla garbage IMO.

-Placing IEDs/C4/SLAMs on yourself and detonating when enemies are nearby.

In v0.8 this will be VERY not worthwhile. no longer an issue.

-Jumping around dropping nades on the floor, avoiding fire, taking as many with you as possible and eventually killing self.

Jumping around will be much less useful than before. dropping nades on the ground??? dont think this is a useful tactic, sounds just like bunnyhopping/smacktardery, I would kick if I saw a bunch of players do this...

-Grenade launching the floor in front of yourself, taking as many as you can.

Not possible in v0.8

-Placing a mine, waiting for it to "set" and driving over it yourself in a vehicle to kill infantry.

lol I have NEVER seen this before... is this even effective? really really stupid tactic IMO... grounds for kicking from server IMO


Thanks Cyrax-Sektor for the examples, any other suicide scenarios you can think of?


Keep in mind we do intend to have the INSURGENT faction use suicide tactics as its a very real concern in insurgent warfare currently.

[Eddie Baker]

Here are some links, that prove that regular armies actually DO have Suicide Units that are especially trained for this kind of tatctics:

Iran suicide bombers ‘ready to hit Britain’ - Times Online
israelinsider: diplomacy: Sunday Times: 40,000 Iran suicide bombers ready to hit US, UK targets
Qods (Jerusalem) Force, Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC - Pasdaran) Iran Intelligence
War with Iran would be Navy, Air Force show - Army News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Army Times
Iran navy in suicide attack pledge - CNN.com
Iran's Suicide Brigades: Terrorism Resurgent - Middle East Quarterly
http://www.meforum.org/article/1059

I wouldn't call the Pasdaran a regular army. They're a praetorian force that also employ unconventional and terrorist tactics outside and within the borders of Iran. Russia had a "suicide brigade" of women as a last line of defense for the Czar during WWI. They were not a regular army, either, just conscripted women with little or no military training.

As for "regular" army units on suicide missions (i.e., ones that practically guaranteed death or capture, even if successful), the only one that comes to mind is St. Nazaire in WW2. And they pulled it off.

[EOD_Security-2252]

Maybe Militia, but no military force would ever condone suicidial tactics.