Ideas on how to bring back that "Insurgency feel" to the Insurgent team.

[DavidP]

Ok some of you may remember this thread. Well here are a few Ideas to bring that 'feel' back.


1. Spawn points and Spawn times. Bring back the Insurgent Scattered Spawn points from .75. This will help give the feel to the Coalition forces that you are "Surrounded on all sides." But to prevent Abuse by the Insurgent team. Make them non-respawnable, Only place them in enclosed or hidden areas, Give the US/UK a 5 point ticket boost for destroying them. And Most importantly Limit the Ammo they have to 3-4 times more that that of an Ammo bag, So when it's gone it's gone! This will prevent RPG/PKM spam that plagued .75 Insurgency maps. And reduce the spawn time to .75 levels.

2. Caches. Okay Caches in .75 were a ***** unless you were an Engy/Spec-ops/AT or stole an Ambusher kit. In .8 it's too easy to blow caches. Honestly it is! 30 rounds from an M4/M16 is enough to send it burning. 1 nade = Dead cache. How about bringing up the Hit points to 2 Nades and Increasing the Clip count to 3? That way instead of having some lucky US/UK ******* stumble upon a cache, Fire off his mag or throw a nade and run! They would have to take their time and be wary of Insurgents. Also I think that Caches should be able to be repaired.(I can't tell you how many times some lucky prick found a cache, fired off 20 rounds, got killed, then came back with his squad and finished it off with another 10). During that time a Civi could use his wrench(even though as unrealistic as it seems) To repair it.

3. Hideouts. Here's the thing about Hideouts. They are extremely rare and hard to get building, And serve no other purpose other then as a poor replacement for the .75 Scattered Spawns. They should be reduced to 2 per map and given more usefulness. Such as Ammo supply Abilities and Extremely Light Medical Abilities.(Which i will get into later). Also someone here suggested that Hideouts act like tunnel networks. Where you enter in one spot and exit another. I like it. But maybe it could be done like it was in C&C Generals. The Commander(You) could make an Exit anywhere on the Map but it had to be built by a Worker. Well how about the Commander Hut turns into the Entrance and the Commander can deploy exits anywhere on the Map, but they need to be built by Civis? Positions 1 stays as the Commander Position. Positions 2-6 act like exits. Position 2 is the Exit for the Commander's Hut, Positions 3-4 are the Exit's to the First hideout built, and Positions 5-6 are the Exits to the Second Hideout built. When you get in you logically get in the nearest open position. And to keep people from staying inside them for too long. Give them that 30 second "You must be commander to operate this vehicle at this position" line. But when No extra Hideouts are built positions 2-6 exit at the commander hut.

4. Weapons Allocation. As of .809 2 weapons spawn on every cache RPG and PKM. I miss the .75 weapons spawn of every weapon being random. And I think that could return albeit in a different way. Keep the 2 weapon spawn on each cache, But let only 1 of them be a PKM or RPG. Let the Other be another pick-up weapon other then the 2 already mentioned.

5. Collaborator. Ok so what was the Problem with Civies in .75? They would get themselves killed on purpose. What's the Problem with .8 Collaborators? Their spawn is too long when they are needed more now then ever. Someone here suggested that Collaborator spawn time be the reverse of .75. 30 Seconds when captured and 120 when shot. That is an excellent Idea. Well here's the Problem Collaborators get shot now more than ever. With no Penalty for the US/UK for shooting them(Other then spawn time). It's really unfair to them because how do you know you're shooting a Civi? From Mid-High range it's hard to tell who's hostile and who's not It's good for the regular Insurgents but not for Civies or Soldiers. I propose 2 things be done. 1 in the First weapons slot Collaborators given something called the "Surrender Ability." Here's how it would work. When you press 1 your hands go up and you can't move. If you are Arrested while Surrendering your Spawn time is 30 seconds. When Shot it's 10. The Soldier is punished by given a warning and 60 second extra spawn time, He does it 3 times he's 'Court Marshalled' by being shot. Any other time you are shot as Collaborator you're spawn is 120. But the Soldier is not punished. Because how is he supposed to know you are not hostile? To keep this ability from being abused it takes 2 seconds to deploy/undeploy. And Civi's no Longer are Killed for picking up Kit's.(Because how many times were you the last of your squad and wished you could pick up that AK lying next to you?) And if you drop your civi kit it's gone instantly.

6. Medical. Right now it's harder then Ever to get Medical Aid as an Insurgent because of 2 factors. 75% health requirement for bleed, And Limit on how many Field dressings the Collaborators carry. I propose that a So called "Medical Cache" is created and a "Doctor Kit" be returned. The Cache is like a Regular cache except it only Heals you. It doesn't have to be destroyed by the US/UK to win.(It will heal them aswell so it's a touch choice for them to make), It Spawns randomly on the Map and the Doctor kit spawns there. The Doctor Kit can be picked up by anyone on the Insurgents team(That means not for you Coalition forces). The Kit Contains the Surrender Ability, Rocks, Binocs, and Field Dress. But it has a Medic Bag aswell. Same spawn time as Civi.(I'm thinking 3 of the caches per map, and 3 doctor kits) The reason I would like it to be picked up by anyone on the Insurgent team is that there are 2 Insurgent Models White and Blue shirt. That cannot be randomized per kit. Since Civi already has the White shirt. So that gives an Advantage to the Insurgent with Molotovs and Cell Leader when blending in.(Thus making the Collaborator Problem in .8 compounded greatly) This Leaves RKG-3 Insurgent and Ambusher as easy pickings. And believe me guys People in PR are smarter then your average FPS'er. They hesitate to fire unless they are confident you are hostile.(Especially me on Ramiel. Blue Shirt = Fire at Will. White Shirt = Hold for Confirmation. And I've taught people that squaded with me in the past to do the same.)

7. Ambusher. .809 Ambusher has it tougher then ever. Sure Binocs are Nice, and the RKG-3 is great! But still SKS in your hands = Highest chance of being killed in a group. I propose that Ambushers lose their SKS and be similarly Equipped to Civi's. Knife, Shovel, Cell Phone, Rocks, Ied, RKG-3, Binocs. And changed the Model to be that of the Civi's.(So 4 white shirt's Per team.) Again this throws another wrench into the machine. Makes Coalition forces think more than ever about engaging.

8. Weapons, pick-ups and General Kit changes. I think that Insurgent Kits should be Split into 2 sub categories "Combat" and "Special." One would have Shovel(Combat) and the Other Binocs(Special). Combat would be the Generic Cannon Fodder Insurgents. And Special would be more suited to do a specific task. And More pick-up kits be created. You know what what? I'm gonna run this down kit by kit.

Current
Cell Leader(Special): He needs to get more defense oriented. Remove the Grenade Launcher(I really don't think that Cell Leader's go out with Grenade Launchers and make themselves A high priority target do they?) and Bring back Smoke grenades for the Insurgent team. Keep the Molotovs ofcourse.(Smoke Grenades were useful in .75. Surrounded on a cache? Pop a smoke and run)

Insurgent Molotov(Combat): Lose the Binocs keep everything else. Knife, Shovel, AK47 1+8, Molotov x2.

Insurgent RKG-3(Special): Why kid? He's just a limped War Vet. The RKG-3 is already used as a frag grenade. In .75 the War Vet felt like a More experienced Insurgent. He felt almost like an Insurgent Spec-ops, Or like the Commanders Right Hand man. I think he should get back his .75 loadout. Knife, Ak47 1+4 Mags, frags x2, 1 Smoke, Field dress. But keep his .8 binocs(Less AK Ammo then Insurgent for balance, But More versatility)

PKM(Combat): I think that PKM is heavy is it not? Remove 1 Box of ammo, 1 Molotov, and Binocs. Keep em closer to caches since their Gun has a Voracious appetite for Ammo.

RPG: I can't really classify this kit Either way. I think it's Just perfect in .8 and needs no changing.

SVD/SMLE scoped(Special): Since they are both Sniper weapons. I think the Should not have Molotovs or a Shovel. Because honestly, how many times are you gonna get up and close to an Enemy squad as a Sniper? Should you not be Looking through your scope, or Scouting through your Binocs? Not Building Stuff? Also the SVD needs an Ammo Increase to 1+4.

SMLE unscoped(Combat): I really really like the Unscoped SMLE. I just think it should lose the Binocs. And increase the Ammo count to 1+8.

SA-7(Special): Lose the Shovel and 1 Molotov. Remember in .6-75 how abused it was when it had the AK47?

Proposed

AK47 with GP-25(Combat): With the GP-25 gone from the Cell Leader, a Grenadier Pick-up kit would be nice.

G3A3(Combat): Ya I know it's been shot down before. But damn It's a good gun and they are plentiful in the ME.

SKS(Combat): If the Ambusher does not have the SKS. I think there should be a pick-up kit of it for those who like using it.

M16A2(Combat): WTF? M16A2 for the Insurgents? Well yes. It's good weapon and it would really diversify the Insurgent team even more.(Maybe limit it to Semi-Auto only?)

PPSH(Combat): Who does'nt want this weapon for City Combat?

9. Vehicles. This is gonna be short I promise. To alleviate the Technical shortage Problem on some maps. I suggest that when a PKM gunner(Or any Insurgent really) is in a car, his accuracy increases greatly!(Come on who does'nt do driveby's when they drive in former spawn cars?) And why not give the Insurgents jet skis(2 person preferably) on Basrah?(I always thought that the Palace dock was missing something.) They'ed be more realistic then the RIB.




Ok guys that's all for now. I'll edit this post if I have anymore ideas.


Please feel free to add your own.

[Tirak]

Yes, to all of it. I especially like the surrender ability, perhaps make though that it can only be used in crouch as to expose less of a target, I can see civis lining up as human shields for insurgents and activating the surrender ability.

[Pariel]

That was a well thought out post, and I think I agree with most of it. Will go and think some more about it though.

[DavidP]

Ok guys. Tomorrow i'm gonna clean-up my Original Post and explain it a bit better, because i wrote this in such excitement some of my ideas are not getting through. And i'm tired from my night shift.

[Rapier]

Well, when I play as an insurgent, I still have that "KILL ALL THE AMERICANS" urge deep down inside of me. Same thing when I play as US. "KILL THOSE SAND PEOPLE. BLOW THEM UP, C4 ALL THE WAY, WOOHOO! AVENGE MY BROTHERS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES TO TH-that's enough of that".

[Solid Knight]

I'm too busy watching the collaborators crank dat Robocop to even notice that I'm bleeding.

[CodeRedFox]

1. Spawn points and Spawn times. Bring back the Insurgent Scattered Spawn points from .75. This will help give the feel to the Coalition forces that you are "Surrounded on all sides." But to prevent Abuse by the Insurgent team.

This was a major cause of server crashes, sorry wont be coming back unless we can find another way to code it

3. Hideouts. Here's the thing about Hideouts. They are extremely rare and hard to get building, And serve no other purpose other then as a poor replacement for the .75 Scattered Spawns. They should be reduced to 2 per map and given more usefulness. Such as Ammo supply Abilities and Extremely Light Medical Abilities.

As far as a ammo medical resupply, no. The reason is if you can get ammo from it why protect the caches (and you know that will happen)

4. Weapons Allocation. As of .809 2 weapons spawn on every cache RPG and PKM. I miss the .75 weapons spawn of every weapon being random.

Again as above server crashes

Your other suggestions are good and hope you all will talk more about it.

[gazzthompson]

maybe wrong thread but i cba to make a new 1 , how about we reduce hideout distance on basrah to like 200m , 400m is a long way on that map

[EOD_Security-2252]

All of it sounds great, obviously coderedfox has some points that are road blocks to your plan, but I think random weapons is not really important. I do, however, think INS should get more spawns. We could compromise between the 0.8 spawn count and the .756 spawn count, sound ok? My only problems/suggestions come are about the medical stuff.
I think the caches should give you ammo and there would be separate "medical caches" where you could get health, but not ammo. There could be like 2-4 randomly placed medical caches on the map, they would be marked to INS (use like a red cross), Coalition wouldn't be informed of the medical cache positions, Coalition can destroy the caches and the caches won't respawn.
Also, with the doctor kit, I don't think doctors should be given rocks. The doctor kit should just be some random Iraqi/Afghani Civilian who happens to be medical specialist. He's not an Insurgent in any way, the only reason he helps the Insurgents is because he's bounded by his morals to help hurt people. BTW, could we make it so the doctor can heal Coalition forces as well and still get points?

[Rudd]

2. Caches. Okay Caches in .75 were a ***** unless you were an Engy/Spec-ops/AT or stole an Ambusher kit..

Agree, it would be more realistic also if it was harder to destroy a cache, but if it was to be this way uk/us would need a SLAM type explosive on a spawn kit for it to really feel good

I just think that some cache locations need to be thought of again, not so much on Korengal because the terrain is so hard, but on ramiel for example. Need more caches in basements and stuff like Archer.

4. Weapons Allocation.
I'd like that too, but only if kit options were increased with grunt kits, not so much RPGs and sniper rifles and stuff. More variation on AK kits

5. Collaborator.I propose 2 things be done. 1 in the First weapons slot Collaborators given something called the "Surrender Ability." Here's how it would work. When you press 1 your hands go up and you can't move. If you are Arrested while Surrendering your Spawn time is 30 seconds. When Shot it's 10.

I really like this idea, no idea if it can be coded, but it is really good. I do think that the "O **** I HIT A CIVI" feel of 0.7 is just gone now. its more like "oops...ahh well...who cares"

6. Medical.

Nah, you'd need a static building really to be a NGO aid station or a hospital, civi doctors don't tend to charge around battlezones when the wounded are being piled up on their front door anyway.

7. Ambusher. .809 Ambusher has it tougher then ever.

Disagree, SKS pwns in 0.8

[DavidP]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]coderedfox;816416']This was a major cause of server crashes, sorry wont be coming back unless we can find another way to code it [/quote] Ok then. How about coding it like the spawn cars from .5? Treat them like immobile vehicles, That you can only spawn on the outside of.(Like the MEC heli in Dcon mod for Bf2) Or if Vehicle spawning was also a problem or is not coming back ever. Then I don't know.

As far as a ammo medical resupply, no. The reason is if you can get ammo from it why protect the caches (and you know that will happen)

Wow i did'nt think of that. But yes you are correct. Hmm what if when built Hideouts didn't give ammo. But an Ammo bag pick-up kit? No wait that would not work either. Hmm... I'll have to get back to you on this.

Again as above server crashes

Damn. Well how about assigning a Specific weapon to each cache? That spawn a select Order? Example: Cache 1 Spawns PKM + SVD, Cache 2 spawns RPG + PKM, Cache 3 spawns RPG + SMLE, Etc etc. It would be a set order. Would that work?

Your other suggestions are good and hope you all will talk more about it.

Which ones exactly? All of them or just a few?

[quote="Dr2B Rudd""]Agree, it would be more realistic also if it was harder to destroy a cache, but if it was to be this way uk/us would need a SLAM type explosive on a spawn kit for it to really feel good[/quote] What about instead of AT mines for Engies on Insurgency maps. They have a really really limped C4 charge that only works against caches?

I just think that some cache locations need to be thought of again, not so much on Korengal because the terrain is so hard, but on ramiel for example. Need more caches in basements and stuff like Archer.

True. On Basrah I Memorized all cache locations, Only half on Ramiel, and Almost 0 on Korengal.(I guess thats why my squad usually is in disbelief that I know where each cache is gonna be before a Marker is up. I even had one guy call me a hacker after I blew 4 caches in a row by myself in .75 basrah)

I really like this idea, no idea if it can be coded, but it is really good. I do think that the "O **** I HIT A CIVI" feel of 0.7 is just gone now. its more like "oops...ahh well...who cares"

Thank you.

Nah, you'd need a static building really to be a NGO aid station or a hospital, civi doctors don't tend to charge around battlezones when the wounded are being piled up on their front door anyway.

Ya you are right. What about Medical Caches yes, Doctors No? Or what about making the Medical Caches a vehicle which can be "Garrisoned" only by a Civi who will act like a doctor and Increase heal rate?

Disagree, SKS pwns in 0.8

Only when you get to use it. Remember Blue Shirts = Clear to engage. White Shirts = Hold your Fire. Thats what I tell everyone who joins my squad(When i do lead, Which is rare now)

maybe wrong thread but i cba to make a new 1 , how about we reduce hideout distance on basrah to like 200m , 400m is a long way on that map

Wait a Minute that gives me an Idea! What if Insurgents could set down rally points that look just like the Old spawns from .75? Requires cell Leader kit to put down, And shovel to build, Max 1 per squad. Whole team can spawn on them.(Like Hideouts) But they require atleast 1 hideout to be built on the map.(Not counting commander hut ofcourse) And they supply No Ammo.

[panther501]

Sks is a much better weapon than what i thought it would be. I was able to make effective ambushes with this weapon. Its accurate, fairly powerful, and you are given enough ammo for it to be fired a lot.

[DavidP]

Sks is a much better weapon than what i thought it would be. I was able to make effective ambushes with this weapon. Its accurate, fairly powerful, and you are given enough ammo for it to be fired a lot.

Put the AK on semi. Same effect more ammo.

[EOD_Security-2252]

As far as destroying caches goes, Engs need to get Incendiary grenades. I know the US uses them a lot to destroy RPGs and stuff that they find. It wouldn't be hard to make. Also, it would be hard to abuse the incendiary because it would have a powerful damage effect, but this would be counter acted by the fact that the radius would be relatively small and there would be a bright red, flare-like effect where the incendiary was burning.
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I also really like Rudd's suggestion about a static building where you could go to get medical help. I still say that both teams should be able to use them sense doctors are usually morally bound to help everyone. Also, if it is a static, then there needs to be about 4 on each map (should be in city areas). Don't make it a large hospital, just like a small in-house practice kind of deal. I don't really know anything about Middle Eastern doctors, but in-house practices don't sound crazy, do they?

[Raniak]

I got an idea for hospitals. Can't you guys make the hospital a "vehicle" that do nothing, but when a "medic" in inside it, it heal the other "passengers" ?

That way they would have a way to heal themselves but they will need to go somewhere to be healed and there won't be any "magic bag" on the insurgent side.

[Rudd]

I suggest we move away from the hospital idea tbh, its a resuggestion, I was saying it was a better alternative to medical caches with doctor kits. hospital idea has always been shot down...and thats good imo really as its complicated to do imo.

If you did go down that road, make it an NGO, e.g. Sans Medicines Frontières do run casualty collection runs. There was a big problem in Mogadishu when they came under fire last year and could no longer enter the city. But its just not really doable in a combat zone, as doctors or NGO workers would give medical aid to any1 who requires it, despite affiliations.

But thinking about it, and I'm sure som1 has said this b4, but its a good idea...is for caches, or another version of medical cache to spawn field dressings around it- good for every1, more people defend caches, caches give more in return.

[Drav]

Insurgents need the ability to place 4 hideouts not 2, and the hideouts a minimum of 200m apart not 400m. This coupled with soldiers being suitably punished for civilian casualties + sensible collaborator spawn times will totally sort out INS imo. I'm loving insurgency now, but these issues make it very frustrating for insurgents, as the OPFOR are much more mobile and have more spawn assets available....

Really like the civilian 'surrender' ability tho, cool idea...

[DavidP]

Updated OP.

[EOD_Security-2252]

Well here's an idea - make one of those Mercedes type vans that sometimes are used as ambulances, then if you're in the back of the vehicle you get healed. Sound ok?

There needs to be taxis for civilians only to drive too, there are lots of those orange and white taxis in Iraq.

[Ecko]

What about adding a hospital or 2 too Insurgency maps, when inside you would automatically heal, plus it gives a side objective for both sides to capture and control the hospitals depriving the opposite side.

( :O someone else already suggested it, its still an awesome idea though!)