AT Class under powered!

~WPN~ Buggies · Post by **~WPN~ Buggies** » 2006-04-04 04:48

Surely you cannot send an AT gunner into combat with just the AT missle and a pistol? How often do you see AT gunners in the field with just a pistol. Can you change this? The class needs some sort of shoulder fired weapon you would think?

DangChang · Post by **DangChang** » 2006-04-04 05:32

The pictures you're probably seeing of soldiers running around with a rifle probably isn't an AT soldier, more like a light AT soldier. Did he happen to carry an AT4? AT4's weigh in at about four pounds, while the SRAW weighs in at about twenty-two. Because one isn't enough to take out a tank, they give you three (should be two In my opinion).

EDIT: Whoops, AT4 Weighs about 18 pounds.

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-04-04 05:37

2 and a PDW should be enough in my opinion. The AT rockets are getting a boost in power for .3 though, so you won't have to wait too long for this to be balanced.

Neuromante · Post by **Neuromante** » 2006-04-04 05:41

^ I agree on this, they should be two. And more splash damage should be added too. BTW going back to the topic, I remember the devs saying something like so to explain their choice on these forums: "We did this for teamwork purposes. Protect your AT guy, or be raped by armor."

Post by **Katarn** » 2006-04-04 05:46

rifleman will still be able to destroy an AT gunner at range, and ideally, that's whom the enemy would like to aim for, assuming they're an organized enemy. Splash damage I believe will not be boosted, but I don't think you'll have to worry about that, since we might be incorporating an RPG-7.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-04-04 06:58

i dont mind the splash damage on the AT rockets, i rather fire an AT rocket because im out of pistol ammo at someone and have it not kill them, then having noob tubers using rockets all the time

weidel · Post by **weidel** » 2006-04-04 07:06

If introducing the RPG-7, why not go all the way and introduce the SMAW or the AT-4 for the marines. Then they will be able to field a proper weapon besides the AT weapon instead of just a pistol. Then the AT soldier will be a rifleman with a specialty when handling vehicles, just like the medic is a rifleman with a specialty when handling wounded.

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-04-04 07:08

weidel wrote:If introducing the RPG-7, why not go all the way and introduce the SMAW or the AT-4 for the marines. Then they will be able to field a proper weapon besides the AT weapon instead of just a pistol. Then the AT soldier will be a rifleman with a specialty when handling vehicles, just like the medic is a rifleman with a specialty when handling wounded.

^PR is going to implement something like this, I think they are putting the AT-4 in.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-04-04 07:27

I really belive that it should take 2 soldiers to take an Abrams out becuase this encourages team work and in reall life i think that a small team of insurrgent with RPG would be needed. (mEC should carry RPG adn made more arab with head scarfs and all)

Another 2 ideas are:
A single rocket can be carried by a soldier, wihile not droping his main rifle.
But it would take 4 shots to destroy a MTB. THis is a perfct number beucase a small squad (4) of men with mabey 2/3 rockets would not be able to take one out but a larger one with more single rocket carring men OR the new class i suggest below would have no probs atall.

Could mantian a class that carries 2/3 and no rifle. Dont think in reall life you can carry 3 beucase most of the rockets are diposable tubes and it would be very bulky.
However this could be improve if a non disposable launcher was found (mabey the javlin) and 1 man carried the launcher and a single shot while a 2nd man carried his own rifle and 2 rounds OR no rifle and 3 rounds! THis would take 2 shots to disable a MBT.

I belive this could improve gameplay considerable - tanks are less fearfull of dying becuase the majority of enemies will not be equipted with the big anti tank rocket but at the same time alot of soldiers (carring 1) will be able to have a crack at one.
Fair for all sides i think and would mean you could really set up a defensive position with one of the big missiles becuase 2 men working together could, if accurate take out 2 MTB's.

THIS whole system can be improved by making maps larger and more open.
Including more small jeeps (hunvees and the like). WHERE men gain point for transportign people around e.g 2 points = 2 people/ 4 = 4people.
Providing more cover, both natural and man - made that enbles fire fights to happen.
These things would ensure one anti tanks man can not sit near the centre of the map and destroy ever tank he sees - making vehicles life's easier BUT the terrain and the new transport system would enable anti tank crews to work more effectively. And if a AT crew foudn them selves with out transport there threat would be signafcantly diminsished, due to Very long walk to get to the enemy!

~WPN~ Buggies · Post by **~WPN~ Buggies** » 2006-04-04 19:13

Anyway... my post was lost in all this. What I am saying... give the AT class an M4 or something.

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-04-04 20:06

~WPN~ Buggies wrote:Surely you cannot send an AT gunner into combat with just the AT missle and a pistol? How often do you see AT gunners in the field with just a pistol.

Anyway... my post was lost in all this. What I am saying... give the AT class an M4 or something.

(High-res)

(High-res)

Once again, we won't be giving the anti-tank gunner classes rifles in PR because it detracts from both realism and gameplay. Single-shot, disposable light anti-armor weapons will be an optional or random item in the rifleman classes.

LAWs (including the SRAW) are issued at the squad level, with a single launcher/round being carried by a couple of riflemen in each squad as a defense against an armored threat or other hardened-target. They are not the weapon of a "full-time" dedicated anti-tank gunner.

For a USMC Assaultman (the MOS title for SMAW and Javelin crews) in the rifle company weapons platoon, the TO&E loadout is the SMAW Launcher, 2-3 rockets and a sidearm. For his assistant gunner, an M16 (basic load is 210 rounds [1 ready mag, 6 in LBE] but more is generally carried) and 2-3 rockets. Anything else is based on METT. For a Javelin team in the battalion weapons company, TO&E says one round for each team member will be carried, since the missiles and the command launch unit are much heavier than the SMAW rockets and launcher. This is why Javelin teams usually travel mounted on the HMMWVs of the battalion weapons company.

Even in old Soviet motorized rifle platoon TO&E, which is still in use in many places, the squad RPG-gunner doesn't have a rifle, just a sidearm, but does have an assistant gunner.

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-04-04 20:10

By those images I vote to also remove the sidearm....

Eddie Baker · Post by **Eddie Baker** » 2006-04-04 20:11

'[R-PUB wrote:Wraith']By those images I vote to also remove the sidearm....

The sidearm is on the Marine's left hip in the third photo. This is to show that they do not carry rifles.

This is taken from the Intro to MOS 0351 (Anti-Tank Assaultman) student handout published by the USMC School of Infantry at Camp Lejeune, which can be found here

c. Equipment Organic to the Assault Section. In addition to the personal equipment and mission essential load that an Assault man may have to carry, there are specific items that can also be assigned to that individual.

(1) Section Leader. The section leader is equipped with:

(a) One lensatic compass.

(b) Technical Manual number 08673A-10/1.

(c) Binoculars.

(d) M-7 or M-9 Bayonet.

(e) M16A2 rifle.

(2) Gunners. Each of the six SMAW gunners within the section will be equipped with:

(a) Telescopic sight.

(b) MK153 SMAW.

(c) Two SMAW rockets.

(d) M9 9mm pistol.

(e) K-bar.

(3) A-Gunners. Each of the six A-gunners/ammo men will be equipped with:

(a) Two SMAW rockets.

(b) M16A2 rifle.

(c) M-7 or M-9 bayonet.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-04-04 20:11

THat what i said earlier.brilliant ideas kicked an then sat on. thank you
if any one read it porperly it adresses the main point as well as expanded it , comenting on the whole class.

Post by **Wraith** » 2006-04-04 20:15

Kicks self in the face!!!!! Didn't see the grip or the holster there. I have gotten way to used to thigh holsters and not hip...

Pence · Post by **Pence** » 2006-04-04 20:27

K-bar?

And the riflemen have bayonet's.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-04-04 23:33

so for clarification, we are keeping the dedicated AT with the SRAW and 9mm and adding a light AT weapon as a selectable option for the assault class? if that is the idea, then its perfect.

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-04-05 00:29

That seems to be the popular idea now. The AT clas cant have a rifle and a very powerful AT weapon cause it would be a superman class.

[ZiiP]DarkJester · Post by **[ZiiP]DarkJester** » 2006-04-05 00:32

One of my guys was asking about this today... makes perfect sence now it's explained.

The concept can only increase the idea of working as a squad, and can therefore only be a good thing...

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-04-05 00:58

Can we make the anti-tank rockets faster? And how does the SRAW really work? Does it lock onto an armored target?