Requestable parachutes

[gclark03]

Reading the "Pilot Kits" thread, I discovered a great idea that hasn't actually been suggested yet: requestable parachutes.

All credit goes to Portable.Cougar for the idea. This thread exists only to give the idea necessary exposure.

Every kit has a parachute-equipped variant in the Object archive. Therefore, it should be possible to write a Python script that spawns the parachute-equipped variant of the player's kit with the press of a button, but only at the main base.

This would allow legitimate paradrop gameplay, but with some limits: the parachute request should operate on the same timer as any other limited kit request. This basically means that if a squad wants to drop with, for example, a Sniper, a Spec Ops and an Officer, that squad would have to wait a few extra minutes for the Sniper and Spec Ops to request their parachutes.

I've also thought of limiting the parachute request to non-specialist kits (no Sniper or HAT drops at all - maybe Spec Ops).

Does this seem plausible?

[MardyBum93]

i can understand people really wanting to use paradrops in-game, i think it would be so cool. unfortunately i think it would over power the game play and would make it alot easier. making this a request option is a good idea but... surely everyone would request one and then if a squad was called "paratroop" how would it be assured that they could get their kits. for example everyone in the squad has a parachute except one guy and its because some random has taken it. wouldn't be fair. i find same principles go for the specialized kits. i dunno something about it just doesn't seem possible to make it realistic enough

[Blakeman]

I actually wouldnt mind this but I would go another step and make the 'parachute' kits be ground spawn pick up only in the main. It would only be one squad leader parachute kit, 1 medic parachute kit, and 4 riflemen no optic parachute kits. This would give one squad the chance to drop in and set up behind enemy lines if they can get the lift there, but make it an extremely limited ability and only available on certain maps. If the chute was also made to only 'reload' like a mine or ammo then it would make those parachute kits even more valuable. The paratroops would be limited in that if they change out kits to LAT/MG etc then they would lose the ability for future drops.

[gclark03]

In response to MardyBum, what do you mean by "easier"? Parachutists still need to be airborne for 30 seconds to land safely, which means that people won't be parachuting off rooftops again. It's a specific tool for specific situations.

I'm still stuck on the issue of parachute abuse, but not for that reason. Parachutes, in fact, aren't all that powerful unless there are pilots willing/able to take everyone to a sufficient altitude and coordinate a drop. One good way of keeping parachute-request abuse under control is to slightly nerf the parachute kit, but I'm a little skeptical about that idea.

In response to Blakeman, I had always intended it to come from the main base only. Thanks for reminding me to mention it. The rest of your suggestion nerfs a parachute squad too heavily, in my opinion.

Portable.Cougar, could you post the details of your idea for requestable parachutes?

[Airsoft]

Might be useful on Barracuda but I don't thinmk it's really that necessary.

[Outlawz7]

Would accomplish the same thing as if a transport helicopter landed you somewhere, only with para dropping you wouldn't get a supply crate down next to you and in the long term people would get fed up with tons of people always parachuting down behind them.

[gclark03]

No, not really.

Troops can be dropped at altitudes over 1000, which is the maximum range for AA. One good parachute squad is capable of dropping in behind enemy AA, which is exactly why Airborne divisions exist.

I know abuse is a problem, but I'm trying to come up with a way to limit the feature's effectiveness without bringing in the Paratrooper kit, which has already been suggested and denied.

What I've come up with, as stated before, is a way of specifically nerfing the parachute kits, so that average Joe doesn't request a parachute if he doesn't actually need it.

Example limitations:
Optics Rifleman: Less ammo, 1/2 grenades, no ammo bag
Irons Rifleman: Less ammo, 1/2 grenades
Combat Medic: Much less ammo, 1 smoke grenade, 1/2 field dressings
Combat Engineer: Much less ammo, no mine
Officer: Less ammo, 1 field dressing, 1/2 grenades, no sidearm

The point of a paratrooper squad is to be dropped "behind enemy lines" - that is, behind or on top of armor, AA or infantry - and quickly construct FOs, destroy AA or distract enemy infantry. If they want their limited kits, they can set rally points and create FOs if they do their jobs correctly.

How can this be done without creating maps around the concept and without attracting too many Rambo noobs?

[Rudd]

Paradrop in daytime = fail

time spent gaining altitude in PR = fail

I've read in 3 Para by patrick bishop, that the parachute training isn't actually considered as a battlefield tool anymore, its to gain the mentality of 'Green light = GO GO GO' amongst the paratroopers who are now helo inserted.

So, I think the concept is flawed.

But if it HAS to be done, can this code limit the number of paratroopers on the map to one squad? preferably if the squad leader had to set something up or whatever. I mean 'you cannot request the parachute kit as you're squadleader does not have the para leader kit' to avoid random paratroopers in multiple squads.

[supahpingi]

this will have ppl getting the paraschute kit,and then from each squad we will have a member waiting at choppers with a paraschute kit so unless only 1 squad is allowed to have them(dedicated para squad)then i dont see this working out very well

[GreedoNeverShot]

They would be useless, as you say, because they can't stop armor, they are too weak to attack flags, they can't build FO, and they are too weak to provide support except against infantry. They would be good for nothing more than putting a rally down and spotting targets.

You would need Spec Ops and Light AT, to be effective. If so, a paratroop squad could drop from high altitude, then take out enemy AA, vodniks guarding the coast, infantry, FOs, place rallies, and spot targets.

In this case, the would be the first people in and they would soften up the enemy, so helicopters could land and advances could be made.

Oh..... and we wouldn't have squads jumping out of helicopters with pilot kits...

[.blend]

I dont think theres any more of an abuse problem than with any other special kit or any vehicle for that matter. The first few days everybody would be all over the parachute kits, but that would subside after the noobs get bored with them.

[Rabbit]

Paradrop in daytime = fail

time spent gaining altitude in PR = fail

I've read in 3 Para by patrick bishop, that the parachute training isn't actually considered as a battlefield tool anymore, its to gain the mentality of 'Green light = GO GO GO' amongst the paratroopers who are now helo inserted.

So, I think the concept is flawed.

But if it HAS to be done, can this code limit the number of paratroopers on the map to one squad? preferably if the squad leader had to set something up or whatever. I mean 'you cannot request the parachute kit as you're squadleader does not have the para leader kit' to avoid random paratroopers in multiple squads.

actually there have been to combat jumps in these last two wars. The 3rd ranger batt was one and the 173rd was the other.

[Smuke]

I agree with this idea, it would add a new spice to gameplay, and add a incetive for people to stick together, if coded corectly.

[IAJTHOMAS]

actually there have been to combat jumps in these last two wars. The 3rd ranger batt was one and the 173rd was the other.

Only one i could find info on was the 173rd drop:

On 26 March 2003 (not 23 March, as sometimes reported), the 173rd Airborne Brigade conducted a jump into Northern Iraq in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. ...

Soldiers landed in the Bashur Drop zone effectively opening a northern front in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Kurdish controlled area was expected to be friendly and little resistance was anticipated...

the jump was considered "permissive," meaning the soldiers did not expect to be shot at as they descended. Parachute insertion made sense because it saved time given the relatively small ramp capacity on the airfield....

In early 2004 the 26 March 2003 jump was classified as a combat jump, even though the objective was a coalition-held forward operating airfield.

173d Airborne Brigade

Doesn't sound they dropped in to an area occuppied by the enemy in the same way you would in pr, basically hopping over the first line of defence.

Plus, if this were to be done i'd rather all were paras or none, rather than having 6 random paras attached to normal inf.

[Blakeman]

Why not just simply fly the transport up to 1200m, fly behind the enemy lines (preferably around the edge of the map) and then land?

Because the enemy can...

Hear the helo...
Shoot the helo killing everyone at once...
See exactly where everyone will be getting out...

Because the friendlies can...

Crash the chopper on landing...
SL can redirect the LZ even while dropping...
Go in silently...

[MonkeySoldier]

What you could do is limit the amount of para kits you can request to six. That would mean you would have just one full squad on the battlefield with a parachute. So in order to be effective, you have to have a dedicated squad. (but you can only get one full squad) So you won't have a sky filled with noobs and lone wolfs thinking they're cool, since they would get shot immediately. I would say, allow parachutes for almost every kit, except for scoped rifleman, heavy AT, Spec-Ops (a Spec-Ops don't always have to deploy to the battlefield via a parachute, so not needed for this class, it's powerful enough), grenadier kit (unless you won't give the rifleman class an ammo bag) and the sniper kit. Yes, I'd say giving a LMG guy a parachute won't be overpowered since the para's will already be outnumbered and out gunned. The light AT kit would be useful against APC's/ jeeps, but he's screwed against a tank. And since he hasn't got optical sights like the heavy AT, he will have a bigger chance of missing the targets. But then again, it all depends on the map. On a map like Barracuda it might fit, but I can't think of a different map atm. Just my 2 cents.

[gclark03]

IMHO, these paratrooper squads need to earn their limited kits by creating rally points and FOs, instead of dropping with them. I don't know if that's realistic - I don't know if any of it is realistic, hence the thread - but it's a lot better for gameplay than parachuting Spec Ops madness.

[Gore]

I agree with Rudd, only 1 squad (6 players per team) and no parachutes for special kits.

[gclark03]

I think we can live with that change.

Is this still a viable suggestion? Is it realistic at all? I'm having second thoughts, but I think it would be a good addition to PR anyway.