Locking Squads - Server Admins use your head

[Pure_beef]

So i have recently been on a few servers that have the rule: no locked squads. At first I agreed with this, i mean locking Alpha squad with just two people in it, is a waste of squad space and is more than likely going to be useless.
However recently I have started to make kit/vehicle specific squads such as Sniper or APC and whilst with squads like "sniper" there can only be really 3 members - 2 snipers and one marksman. However i ended up with 6 people in my squad, who were pretty much no help to a sniper squad. Instead they follow me around and give away our posistions with tracer fire from there guns. So i lock the squad (kicking out non snipers) and i get a warning from admin.

Surely admins should realise that if a squad is Specific about what they want and there is only limited space for the members then they should allow the leader to lock it. Having other players in squad that are not contributing is a waste of a player that could be usefull in another squad.

Your thoughts please

[jOHNNYdOUBE]

You mean, No ONE MAN Locked squads??

[Tartantyco]

-Just inform the admins that you'll lock the squad and tell them why, they usually listen.

[Welshboy]

Just kick them when they join, takes less than a few seconds.

[spybaz]

In my experience, locked squads are a source of frustration and usually nooberism:

1) Most perma-locked squads are ineffective (read solo sniper and/or a locked APC squad that does NOT behave as an APC which is, of course, an Armored PERSONNEL CARRIER!!). This is from my own personal observations, playing every day. These squads tend to do everything except achieve the objectives, like they are own their own private training mission within a fully fledged war zone, hogging assets. However, I do agree in locking squads at the start of a round until you have all the people that you want on your squad on board.

2) If people lock down a squad with less than 6 people in it then new players joining a server may be unable to join or create a squad of the required 3 people that makes a squad effective ( a real frustration of mine!).

3) If you lock a squad that isn't full then no one can hop into your squad briefly to chat and inform you of other squads activities. This saves typing that may or may not be even noticed by the locked squad on that personal training mission

Just a personal opinion and experienced observation. I know some people will disagree. Locked squads are generally frustrating to me on quite a few levels regarding their lack of impact on the overall outcome of any given battle.

[xXRich07Xx]

Eh, myself and other PRT members sometimes make a custom squad and then lock it. Simply to avoid noobs and jack@$$3$

[spybaz]

Edited:
To me, it is more conducive to the overall success of PR if experienced squads help train new recruits!

[xXRich07Xx]

To me, the 'jack@$$3$ ' is the one who will not help train new recruits!

(I'm too old for this!)

So that would be you then?

Let's not start a flame war.

Over the past two weeks there has been a spike in garbage play and play more akin to Halo 2
than a realistic game.

I've seen players drive around in small circles with the forklifts, and run team mates over, people who punish repeatedly even though it was obviously an accident, and people who can type but refuse to communicate with their squad, and instead just follow the squad willy nilly doing what they want without regards to the squad or commander's orders. And if you kick them from the squad, they hunt you down and TK you.

[spybaz]

No flame war, man. My post was in haste and I will edit it. You are entitled to feel as you do about noobs. It's all good. I'm just saying that I think noobs should be helped learn and not admonished. I was a noob once and I appreciated having a good squad teaching me the ropes way back then.
Of course, if the noob in question has not read the manual and is being annoying by asking too many questions and destroying too many assets then, yes - kick him.




PS: "people who punish repeatedly" - can you punish TKers in PR? I have never seen the option. I must be losing it.

[McBumLuv]

On some servers, yes, on others not. It's a server option whether to have it an option or to not punish TKs.

[Gaven]

I'm personally a fan of small 3-4 man squads. I find them to be much more effective than a 6 man squad, tactics require changing though.

It's tough to do it when you can't lock the squad though.

[Cassius]

There are valid reasons to lock the squad. APC does not need to have 6 men, unless there is so much armor that there is left over to make a mech infantery squad. Ambush squads do not need to take guns away from other squads as well.

Load up TS and you have a 32 man squad. It works if you only talk when you have something important to say.

[[uBp]Irish]

basic criteria for locking squads as how i see it.

Sniper Squads: Really only need 2 people, and the 2nd person does NOT need to be a sniper to be effective

Logistics Squads: Again, 2-3 people is ideal, with 1-2 people doing the logistics truck, while the 3rd person might drive a transport truck.

US Army Maps: 5 People is what I usually lock a squad at, just because having 6 people means that 1 person is left walking if I get a Hummvee.

Armor/APC: Depends on the SL. Sometimes people run full 6 people (3 Tanks/APCs/Combination with AAV's/Logistics Trucks for repairs), but I sometimes like just running 2 people in a squad for 1 vehicle so communications are nice and clear. Relay information through your commander (hopefully) and he'll relay it to the infantry.

Helo Transport: On maps like Muttrah/Barracuda, I lock my squad at 3 pilots. This reallllllly pisses people off especially on Muttrah because there are upwards of 6 helicopters, but I only need 3 people. I play on TG usually, where Helicopters are designated to a squad. This helps because in case someone get's shot down/crashes we have reserve helo's up ready to get going.

Air/CAS: Depends on what you want, but usually lock at around 3. Spotter, 2 pilots, or any combination.


The way these work makes for easy communication between commander and the squad. I too am mad when i see admins say "no locked squads" when the whole point of my squad only requires 2-3 people to be done. Any more and the effectiveness of our job goes down.

[sentinel]

To people like me and my brother who actually aim at zero death matches, the 6 man squads that go from flag to flag running and gunning is not much of an option. Most of the people don't take PR as serious like we do or they play it the vanilla style, the wrong way. One man locked squads only happen in servers that have the you must join a squad rule, this only forces loners to make one man squads so they get their sniper kit. Or forces a SL to use simple tactics that the extra noobs in their squads can handle, so they run and gun from flag to flag. The 6 man squad can work like a dream if they are all dedicated badass frontline infantry types, not guys who are too shy to use a mic or idiots who talk about what they have been eating while playing.

A usefull tip to people who like to think outside the box on servers where you dont have to be in a squad..> Make a squad, take the kits, leave the squad, don't DIE. Use TS or Vent to communicate. I don't advice people to go lonewolfing thats just stupid, but you can play as a squad without being an actual squad.

[vilhelm123]

I'm pleased to say that T&T operates a no locked squads rule.

People who lock squads are normally the kind of people who ruin pr for me. Claiming that other people don't play as well as they do or that all people outside of their clan/without tags of a well known clan, are vanilla noobs and don't have mics. I honestly cannot see a reason to lock your squad other than you wish to be anti social and think your better than the other players. People go on and on about how they are in a sniper squad or an apc squad or they are flying the attack heli. So? On what grounds does that mean other people can't join your squad? If I'm doing something that doesn't need more than a few people when other people join I tell them politely that this squad not really being lead and I won't be annoyed if they would rather go and join another squad but are welcome to stay if they want. Like you some people aren’t interested in being social and squading up with others so they just want to lone it about in any old squad, would it hurt to have a sniper at the bottom of your apc squad? You don’t need the space and other squads don’t want it and by making his own squad he‘s just wasting space.

The excuse that 'we're all on ts' (or now mumble) is also a **** one. If you and your clan mates lock yourselves away in a squad A. Your not making your clan look very good no matter how many kills you get and B. How on earth do you plan to recruit new members?

If a squad member is being a twonk and lone wolfing, taking a sniper kit that you don't want, soloing an apc or murdering a number of kittens in front of your mother then by all means kick them but that doesn't mean you should be locking your squad.

Locking an apc squad is just so pants on head retarded it actually makes my brain hurt. But it only needs two crewmen I hear you cry, so? Two words for you people, mechanised infantry . If you have some dedicated infantry tagging along your teamwork and survivability go up 200%. Also when you turn up to help out a squad in trouble your infantry can get stuck in and clear out the enemy that you have pinned down. People commonly reply to that argument by saying that the squad you've helped can clear them out. Most of the time said squad is healing up and working out how to get its dead members back on the field. So your squad members really aretheir guardian angels at that point in time.

Just kick them when they join, takes less than a few seconds.

That is the single most unsocial thing you can do in the history of pr. If I catch people doing it on T&T I kick them for being anti social and breaking server rules. If a server has a rule of no bad language putting ’You’re a S**T pilot’ into chat is still seen as being rude. Nothing if different in this situation your just trying to be clever and think that breaking the rules is ok as long as you do it on the sly.

A usefull tip to people who like to think outside the box on servers where you dont have to be in a squad..> Make a squad, take the kits, leave the squad, don't DIE. Use TS or Vent to communicate. I don't advice people to go lonewolfing thats just stupid, but you can play as a squad without being an actual squad.

This idea is massively flawed by the fact that alot of servers operate a kick for not being in a squad system.

One of my first experiences of pr was with two members of the LP clan way back in 0.5 (their names escape me). I didn't have a mic but it didn't matter to them and they were a great pair of lads who talked me though pr as we went along. Playing that game with them had me out and buying a mic the moment the shops opened the next day. Excluding people because they haven't shelled out for a mic for a MOD they just got is just the kind of thing that means people don't like a great game like pr because of the idiot that they met in game who treated them like a retard just because they lacked a microphone.

[Kirra]

I'm pleased to say that T&T operates a no locked squads rule.

People who lock squads are normally the kind of people who ruin pr for me. Claiming that other people don't play as well as they do or that all people outside of their clan/without tags of a well known clan, are vanilla noobs and don't have mics. I honestly cannot see a reason to lock your squad other than you wish to be anti social and think your better than the other players. People go on and on about how they are in a sniper squad or an apc squad or they are flying the attack heli. So? On what grounds does that mean other people can't join your squad? If I'm doing something that doesn't need more than a few people when other people join I tell them politely that this squad not really being lead and I won't be annoyed if they would rather go and join another squad but are welcome to stay if they want. Like you some people aren’t interested in being social and squading up with others so they just want to lone it about in any old squad, would it hurt to have a sniper at the bottom of your apc squad? You don’t need the space and other squads don’t want it and by making his own squad he‘s just wasting space.

The excuse that 'we're all on ts' (or now mumble) is also a **** one. If you and your clan mates lock yourselves away in a squad A. Your not making your clan look very good no matter how many kills you get and B. How on earth do you plan to recruit new members?

If a squad member is being a twonk and lone wolfing, taking a sniper kit that you don't want, soloing an apc or murdering a number of kittens in front of your mother then by all means kick them but that doesn't mean you should be locking your squad.

Locking an apc squad is just so pants on head retarded it actually makes my brain hurt. But it only needs two crewmen I hear you cry, so? Two words for you people, mechanised infantry . If you have some dedicated infantry tagging along your teamwork and survivability go up 200%. Also when you turn up to help out a squad in trouble your infantry can get stuck in and clear out the enemy that you have pinned down. People commonly reply to that argument by saying that the squad you've helped can clear them out. Most of the time said squad is healing up and working out how to get its dead members back on the field. So your squad members really aretheir guardian angels at that point in time.

Here you go:

If i am making an APC/Tank/Chopper squad i will most likely lock it. Why? Simply because its so much more effective to have the driver as a SL so he can set markers on enemys instead of using time to explain where they are with the compass markers.

What's the point of having 6 guys in a squad where the SL in driving an APC? He will not be able to put down rallies, and he will have to drive back and forth all the time to pick up the guys who just respawned after dying.

What's the point in having more than 3 people in a sniper squad? The rest will simply do nothing more than watching the sniper shooting people far, far away and on ocasions kill some lone guy who gets too close.

It's just more effective to have people that do different roles in different squads so you won't waste your manpower on unessesary things. Instead of having 4 inf guys in your APC its much better to let them be in a 6 man inf squad and support them if needed.

Its better to have 2 APC squads than just 1 because it doesn't limit one of the drivers by not allowing him to set attack markers on enemys. Those 2 APCs can still cooperate just fine. Especially when you have a commander.

[xXRich07Xx]

Vilhelm I'm retarded simply because I want to have a good time with clan mates?

Flame bait more.

[vilhelm123]

What's the point of having 6 guys in a squad where the SL in driving an APC? He will not be able to put down rallies, and he will have to drive back and forth all the time to pick up the guys who just respawned after dying.

What's the point in having more than 3 people in a sniper squad? The rest will simply do nothing more than watching the sniper shooting people far, far away and on ocasions kill some lone guy who gets too close.

For the apc why not budge over and let someone else squadlead and make yourelf less of a light tank and more of an armoured personal carrier?
Or maybe something like this?

some people aren’t interested in being social and squading up with others so they just want to lone it about in any old squad, would it hurt to have a sniper at the bottom of your apc squad? You don’t need the space and other squads don’t want it and by making his own squad he‘s just wasting space.

It's just more effective to have people that do different roles in different squads so you won't waste your manpower on unessesary things. Instead of having 4 inf guys in your APC its much better to let them be in a 6 man inf squad and support them if needed.

Whether more effective or not a team with locked squads has a horrible tendancy to look like this: (based on a muttrah game)
2x 6 man infantry squads
1xsniper squad locked, alot of the time one person and the other sniper off somewhere else taking up space.
1 or 2 locked apcs squads.
1 or more Locked squad for a cobra/attack huey that people will fight over like hungry children fighting for the last slice of cake.
1 or more messy infantry squads with a leader who is either not very good or just not leading.
2-3 transport squads squad normally at least one of these will be locked, maybe more.

For all their 'effectiveness' people still are num nuts when locked away, and if they are good at what they do then why should they not allow others on board to join them and learn from them. If people want to stick around then fine its their call. Just because they can't tag along in your squad doesn't mean that they are going to become a god of pr and squadlead a team to victory or forefill a vital roll in another squad.

Vilhelm I'm retarded simply because I want to have a good time with clan mates?

It's fine if you want to have a good time with your clan mates, but why lock yourself away? Why not allow someone else in to learn from you or just enjoy a game with you?

If you and your clan mates lock yourselves away in a squad A. Your not making your clan look very good no matter how many kills you get and B. How on earth do you plan to recruit new members?

Point A is particular mate, if your locked up in a squad then you stand to learn nothing from the other players and they stand to learn nothing from you.

[Kirra]

For the apc why not budge over and let someone else squadlead and make yourelf less of a light tank and more of an armoured personal carrier?
Or maybe something like this?

Because if i am going to effectively drive an APC i need my attack markers. You see, in real life, the APC crew is pretty well trained so they respond to each other much faster while in PR you have VOIP delay, and then you have the time it takes for your gunner to find out where "145" is on the compass. And that time is pretty precious when someone is deploying his HAT.

If im not the SL, i can't use the APC to its full potential, i will constantly let targets get away because i can't tell my gunner where they are quick enough and in the end will probably get killed because of it.

I would rather have a separate 6 man squad in the back that can cap flags and clear out tight areas instead of having 4 guys that have to rally point. Because those 4 guys are slowing me down, and i am slowing them down. Its much better for them to be in a bigger infantry squad and ask for transport and support when needed.

Whether more effective or not a team with locked squads has a horrible tendancy to look like this: (based on a muttrah game)
2x 6 man infantry squads
1xsniper squad locked, alot of the time one person and the other sniper off somewhere else taking up space.
1 or 2 locked apcs squads.
1 or more Locked squad for a cobra/attack huey that people will fight over like hungry children fighting for the last slice of cake.
1 or more messy infantry squads with a leader who is either not very good or just not leading.
2-3 transport squads squad normally at least one of these will be locked, maybe more.

For all their 'effectiveness' people still are num nuts when locked away, and if they are good at what they do then why should they not allow others on board to join them and learn from them. If people want to stick around then fine its their call. Just because they can't tag along in your squad doesn't mean that they are going to become a god of pr and squadlead a team to victory or forefill a vital roll in another squad.

Trust me, if there is a commander around this kind of separation works very well. Its much easier for him to talk to important vehicles directly instead of asking that squad to tell that APC to go there, pick some guys up and support them over there.