What percent of PR PunkBuster kicks impact the innocent?

[TF6049]

If the percent is above 70%, I petition removing PB auto-kicks in favor of admins.

Thoughts?

[Spec]

Should be up to the server admins. Though they should quickly lose the license if they use the lack of auto-kicks to allow teamkilling, cheating or similiar.

[SodaUnion]

The answer to your question would be somewhere about..... 100%

[Harrelson]

If the percent is above 70%, I petition removing PB auto-kicks in favor of admins.

Thoughts?

Compared to other first person shooters like call of duty, i think PB is broken on bf2 though i lay the blame solely on dice and their unpolished code.

[Vege]

Without PB it would soon come to
YouTube - Quake 3 duel - czm vs fox (hub) Part 1
vs
YouTube - Pro-Player playing Quake III arena

Where everything would be torn to peaces for best playability, effects, sounds, you name it.
PB just removes the casual cheating which it does quite well. Never really had problems with it.

Even thou it's allowed in Quake series, i would not like to see green enemies in PR.

[GR34]

probably about 85% to 95% are innocent kicks

[UntenablePosition]

I can't remember the name, but there is one server that posts the reasons for kicks and I have seen " multihack" with a bunch of numbers and "aimbot" as reasons for kicks.
I thought that meant that nilla hacks worked in PR but only until some auto PB audit catches them.
If the hacks I saw vids of years 2-3 years ago work in PR then we need PB because I think they would be devastating in PR because of the lack of enemy knowledge compared to nilla BF.

I would be interested to know if it is possible to make the game code copyrighted in such a way that if you wrote a hack for it you could be prosecuted or at least sued for it.
The amount of time and money that goes into stopping cheaters has to be enormous, not to mention the frustration.
But I have a feeling that there is little than can be done in a permenant manner to stop hacking/cheating.

[Alex6714]

You know, I got one kick by PB yesterday, so I updated PB for the first time in months, yes months of not having a single PB kick (except ping on some servers if that counts) without even touching it, so the problem can´t be with PB, rather the relation between it and your OS/software setup.

[JohnTheRipper]

I'm a victim of punkbuster, because of that fucking error were it's says punkbuster heartbeat has stopped, happens a lot when i try to join servers and sometimes every few rounds or in the middle of a match.

Also someone please tell me: is Krispy Kream out of business or is it still alive and going to continue on.

[bloodthirsty_viking]

i get kicked every day i play, i have updated pb many times, i only have a few mods=P and i run windows xp.......
i get kicked for many resons and have been kicked for almost everyone... and it ONLY happend after i installed pr..... so i think its pb's fualt for not adapting=P

[[DVB] Avalon.ca]

i think removing PB the harm would out way what ever benifit a single player would have. as a pain as it is some times, it dose keep the kiddy cheaters away. you imagin have a 1000 cheater influx too the mod? what fun!

[Rix]

When I left PR for awhile because of performance problems I was able to play all servers, played alot of Tactical Gamer, then when I got back I was banned from every server by PB.

Went out and bought a new bf2 for 10 bucks and then I wasn't banned, guessing someone got ahold of my CD key.

[GreedoNeverShot]

I rarely, but do, get kicked
and of course there is always the ---->

[TF6049]

Without PB it would soon come to
YouTube - Quake 3 duel - czm vs fox (hub) Part 1
vs
YouTube - Pro-Player playing Quake III arena

Where everything would be torn to peaces for best playability, effects, sounds, you name it.
PB just removes the casual cheating which it does quite well. Never really had problems with it.

Even thou it's allowed in Quake series, i would not like to see green enemies in PR.

You have a point. I am just saying disable auto-kicks like MD5Tool mismatch etc. Essentially it can collect evidence for the admin and ban those who have been banned by a human, but the software is often extremely inaccurate (this is one reason why there is an ethical debate about UCAVs not having human operators BTW).

If over 10 million years your clock was off by .000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds, PB would fuss it's head off. Whereas a human could care less.

[Ace42]

I would be interested to know if it is possible to make the game code copyrighted in such a way that if you wrote a hack for it you could be prosecuted or at least sued for it.

The terms of use for any server can include expressly forbidding cheaters from playing on it. Anyone cheating on the server would be guilty of "unauthorised access" in the UK, and thus liable to prosecution.

While it wouldn't result in a conviction, it is not uncommon for people using suitably popular servers to warn the owner of the IP range that if they do not deal with their wayward user, their whole IP range / hostmask will get banned. ISPs when threatened with their entire membership being denied access to a resource, or with the data protection act, are kinda obliged to terminate a user's account and will generally not only blacklist the user (so they can't just sign up for a new account), but will also pool blacklists with other ISPs.

[UntenablePosition]

TY, I didn't think there was much you could do but I don't think, and I am totally guessing here, that there are truly that many hackers out there and if they could be reached in some legal way it would make millions of people's lives so much less stressful.

Hearbeat stopping, I get them often but always in conjunction with a the damn McAfee pop up, so I always figured the pop-op blocked something for a nanosecond and PB kicked me.
I used to update the PB regularly and for a time I was forced to delete and and reinstall PB every time I played but I haven't had a problem in several months.
I know I am jinxing myself and tonight it work it all but it seems to me that PB could be more understanding as it concerns their updates and provide some warning.

[waldo_ii]

What a horrible question. It reminds me of the kind of questions that are asked in Fox News. If someone from Fox heard that 95% of PB kicks were on the innocent, they would use that as reason enough to assault PB. It is a simple enough question that most people would quickly assume is legitimate. Those who have put thought into it see it as a wretched, biased question, but it is difficult to explain, so the asker always wins.


The base of why this is a horrible question is this: When PB sees someone cheating, that is it for them. One kick, one ban. When PB notices something is messed up, but isn't sure it is a cheat, then it will merely kick you until the problem ceases to exist. PB stops maybe 95% of cheaters. A lot of these people are the casual "Download an aimbot and play and be totally awesome and be number one" kind of people, who could also enjoy the game and play legitimately. The other five percent, well, I don't understand them.

Say you have this group of 1000 players. Ten of them are cheaters. Over a course of, say, six months, there are 200 kicks. Ten of them were the kick/ban variety, where they caught the cheaters. The other were heartbeat failures, handshake failures, Windows API oddities, etc, and only resulted in a kick. This group of 990 players do not experience cheaters ever after the first week. Were they inconvenienced? Yeah. But they got to enjoy the game.

Now, say we had a similar group, but PB did not exist. These ten cheaters made countless games unenjoyable (sp?) for many people. Some of the 990 saw one of these ten and decided either "Ohh, I want to be number one" or "I'll defeat them with my own hacks" or something of the sort, and they started cheating. Suddenly we have dozens more cheating, and few games are enjoyable.

Without any sort of cheat-prevention, a strong cheating community builds up, making the game enjoyable for only those who actually think that everyone else is a super pro and they are an incredible newb, and those cheating. The game is ruined for people who play fairly and want a clean, fair game.


It doesn't MATTER what fraction of PB kicks are legitimate. The small fraction that is legitimate keeps the game ALIVE and FUN. Frustrating? Yes. Can't deal with it? GO PLAY A CONSOLE.

[sCobra]

I get the "handshaking failed" thing occasionally, and I can only join certain servers for a short period of time before it tells me it something is wrong with my shaders.

[alvina]

I had alot of problems with even playing PR, so yesterday I uninstalled BF2 and PR+levels. I then reinstalled BF2+patch and then PR+levels. I then Updated PB manually. So the only problem I got when joinging a server is a kick for HANDSHAKING wich you can fix by entering another server and cancel the loading when about 3% before enter the server you gonna play on. Thats the only problem you will get if you install everything from scratch. Before that I recived, Handshaking, md5tools, shader problems, you name it.

* Note! Delete everything with BF2 thats been left after uninstall. It took me atleast 1month before I decided to take time to do all this, but its worth it!

[nick20404]

Uninstalling PR is not going to do anything, If you guys are having PB problems delete your PB folder and download it again and reinstall simple as that. If you are having handshaking failures there is something wrong with your connection or firewall. I rarely ever get kicked for anything PB related and removing it in favor of admins would be the stupidest idea ever, admins can't see when people have hacks on like PB can and 50% of the time there isn't an admin on a server.