[Proposal] "Homeland War" Serbian & Croatian Factions

[Amon]

Hi there...
we are making this:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr ... -wars.html

So... if there are any free and willing modders to help us...
Don't be shy... we need as much help as we can get...

I have the "Idea" and "Will" to make this even if it takes 3 years...
But i cant do it myself... so... anyone?

We will have
2 Nations -Serbs/Croats
4 Factions
ZNG - "Zbor Narodne Garde" (Croatian National Guard) <- militia
HV - "Hrvatska Vojska" (Croatian Army)
JNA - "Jugoslavenska Narodna Armija" (Yugoslav Peoples Army)
VSK - "Vojska sSrpske Krajine" (Army of Serbian Krajina) <-Serb paramilitary

New vehicles -
M-84 MBT
J-22 "Orao" - ground attack/fighter plane
J-1 "Jastreb" or G-4 "Super Galeb" - Ground attack plane
Mig-21bis - Fighter/ground attack
M-60P - APC with machine gun and 60 mm anti-tank Recoilles gun
M-80 LT - Light Infantry Vehicle (armed with 20 mm cannon and 2-3 Malyutkas for Tanks)
Iveco truck - resuply
BOV VP - armored light transport (Unarmed)
BOV 3 - Light AA

4 maps
Vukovar for "Battle of Vukovar"
Dubrovnik for "Siege of Dubrovnik"
Western Slavonia for "Operation Flash"
Knin for "Operation Storm" <- The operation, which took 84 hours, was documented as the largest European land offensive since World War II,[5] It began shortly before dawn on August 4, 1995 and ended four days later.

[supahpingi]

suggesting things without having he capabilitys wont get you very far,and about every modder out here has something to do so this isnt the best time to start a new faction,with even a complete new battlefield

[Tannhauser]

Sounds like hardcore work if you ask me, almost ALL the equipment proposed requires new models, skins, etc...
I suggest you try learning how to model or maybe how to skin yourself first, it'll help give the community faction a start.

And you know, it's good to have more .. ''variety'' in terms of opfor factions. It's also good to see more non-NATO/US related wars, as those are usually unknown and relayed to second plan.

For a start, try and make a google spreadsheet listing the EXACT loadouts, weapons, vehicles, etc from each faction. Take example on the spreadsheets made by the IDF and Canadians community factions, it really helps modders know what is there to be done.

As for the number of factions .. and assets .. I suggest that you keep the number of stuff to be done to a minimum. 4 different factions is a lot, start off with making at least one, then the opposing faction. Try to reduce the ammount of work by looking for possible placeholders and prioritize infantry over vehicles (make the uniforms, then make the guns, nades, special weapons, knife, THEN focus on ground vehicles, THEN helos, THEN at the very last, planes.)

[Amon]

ok... the firs thing im gona build for the croatian army is.....

A Croatian "field dressing"... LOL! ^^

[J.F.Leusch69]

maybe start with a croatia ary first and leave the others out, cos those war(s) are set in the past and PR is more in the future than in the past... maybe you should give mapping a try, cos as far as i know a decent map is a huge goal for a new fraction like the germans have 2-3 pretty pretty nice maps (which might be ready for the first release) and some good fractions such as the norwayns and IDF mod lacks on mappers/maps, and the BF2 editor is also a free programm with huge "help and tutorial forums" such as bfeditorfroum.com

so do some researches and try to get a dexent plan out to the community and than you might get help.

[Amon]

First i will make something like the "Canadian progress sheet"
Then we will se further...

[Amon]

I did my little croatian sheet... it needs to be finished, but for now it looks like this:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... DbG2hTg0QQ

[DXfan01]

If ur serious about this than Right On man...i hope u are bcuz 2 me and hopefully every1 else More factions means more fun....o and if ur doing all u said than u better get to it...im no genius but i no that will take long

[Lawer01]

Looking forward for thees 2 factions. Are you gonna use AMD-65 in it?

[Tannhauser]

@Lawer01 : Neither Croatia or Serbia use the AMD-65. But I see why you want it, it looks good


Commented on your spreadsheet in the other thread ....

Stick with Croata Armed Forces VS Serbian Armed Forces.

As for the M-84, it's basically a Yugoslavian made T-72, they're very similar so I think you could go with a simple reskin. If they ever go for the M-95 in the future, you could also plan that as ''low priority''.

The Patria AMV has a model that was started by the Polish Community Faction, it's the KTO Rosomak (Wolverine). You could ask them and their modeller if they consent to let you use their vehicle.

Use the HMMWV as placeholder, they use them in A-stan. (Croatia) At least, until you get a Iveco LMV modelled and skinned.

The M70 is being replaced by the VHS (a bullpup rifle that looks close to the FAMAS). Use the FN FAL instead. I'm not sure about how much the G36 and FN SCAR are used by Croatia, but I'm gessing they're going mainly for FN FALs and VHS, after replacing their old M70 (basically a copy of the AK47 with a folding stock).

They use mainly M84 and FN MAGs. The M84 looks a bit like the PKM so you could use that as placeholder for their AR.

MP5 or Uzi for their crewmen? I know they have more than 2500 home produced ''Ero'' (Uzi), no info on the MP5... I also heard they're using Skoprions? That would be a cool weapon to see in PR.

M9 (produced in Croatia) for the pilots and officers...
M24 Sniper rifle... eh

What is their DMR? I see nothing that could carry that job right now..

---
Serbia..

Same tank as Croatia, the M84 wich is a not-so-modified T-72.
Same APC as the other one Croatia uses aside the Patria AMV, the M-80A...
They use some few BRDM-2s, unlike Croatia that is withdrawing them.

Vehicle wise Croatia and Serbia are pretty much similar...

CZ-99 sidearm for pilots and officer....
Skorpion as PDW for crewmen, obviously.

I'd really like to see the M21S as their main Assault Rifle as they are replacing their Zastava AKs (M70, M77, M85, M90...) with it. It looks much more modern and original. Maybe give one of the classes a Zastava? Dunno, I just feel like we got enough AKs in PR, the folding stock Zastava would be ok, but more variations would just be too much IMO...

M72 looks good and more portable, like the RPK or the Al Quds, altho it would be easier to fit them with M84s from the Croatians. Dunno.

Now, the Sniper Rifle and DMR question is really confuse. From what I read (rather quickly) they have like 2 sniper rifles and 3 DMRs :
The M93 is a serbian sniper, they also use the TRG-21, a finnish made sniper rifle (finnish = epic win) but idk, I'd stick with Serbian stuff for Serbian forces.

They use the PSG1 wich I think is the current MEC DMR. They also use M91 wich looks pretty much like a Dragunov copy and it seems they used (during the yugoslav war not sure if they still use it) the M76, an odd 7.9mm Zastava AK fit with a scope like a DMR...
I'd for either the PSG1 or the M91, they're both in PR (SVD would get a reskin).. It's up to how many of wich they use really.

They seem to use the same HATs and LATs as the Croatians, but apparently they're ordering many ''Bumbar'' wich is a Serbian deisng HAT mostly based on the Eryx. Give Serbs the Eryx as placeholder maybe?

...

[DeltaFart]

I agree with tann on this it seems like some hunting rifle isn't the best choice of words what does your military use for their advanced marksmen programs?

[Tannhauser]

Edited my post before you ninja'd me Delta, but I adressed the DMR question for the serbs ... No idea about the Croatians tho.

[Amon]

Guys... easy...

1. Im making this mod in the time span from 1991 - 1995. When there was war. We did not have all that equipment then... The ZNG are poorly armed because this were the beginnings of our army and we had a weapons embargo... So we used what we could find, and what the YPA (Yugoslav Peoples Army) diid not take on their retreating from Croatia in 1990. in 1991 the only armed force was the police, than you know in how deep shit we were....

2.I need to make more research to back something up i wrote in that document...
I need to replace the "sticky bomb" with "AT mine", Because, they were throwing AT mines at tanks out of desperation, when they had run out of AT weapon in the last days of battle... But i think its better to be a "sticky bomb" cos i don't know how others would understand they need to THROW an "AT mine" on a tank

[Tannhauser]

Guys... easy...

1. Im making this mod in the time span from 1991 - 1995. When there was war. We did not have all that equipment then... The ZNG are poorly armed because this were the beginnings of our army and we had a weapons embargo... So we used what we could find, and what the YPA (Yugoslav Peoples Army) diid not take on their retreating from Croatia in 1990. in 1991 the only armed force was the police, than you know in how deep shit we were....

PR is set in the near future, you can base stuff on the past to renew old conflicts alright, but I doubt a war from the past would make it into PR. It doesn't fit what PR is achieving currently IMO..

[BroCop]

On the Croatian DMR...apparently we are still using M76's for both sniper and DMR roles (SVD as a placeholder) and a small amount of G3-SG1 (thats already in game)..

If needed I might extract more info as my father is a small arms logistics officer

also stick with new equipment...if you want you can always add the paramilitaries for the INS mode as there were (at least "ZNG" had them) weapons caches which are even to this day scattered around (they even found one last week)

[Amon]

PR is set in the near future, you can base stuff on the past to renew old conflicts alright, but I doubt a war from the past would make it into PR. It doesn't fit what PR is achieving currently IMO..

Oh wait... in the other post here:
Yugoslav Wars
you can see that we fought EXACTLY as is fought in BF 2... a squad of 6-10 men guards a street from infantry and tanks... one heavy AT, one light, heavy gunner, marksman and so on... The "art of war" was different... but i think with those maps the "excitement" would still be the same...

Oh... and this is ZNG "Zbor Narodne Garde" (Croatian National Guard):






And this is HV "Hrvatska Vojska" (Croatian army):

[Tannhauser]

Oh wait... in the other post here:
Yugoslav Wars
you can see that we fought EXACTLY as is fought in BF 2... a squad of 6-10 men guards a street from infantry and tanks... one heavy AT, one light, heavy gunner, marksman and so on... The "art of war" was different... but i think with those maps the "excitement" would still be the same...

So that means you'd put korea-war or vietnam-war soldiers in PR just because they used similar tactics and squad-loadouts?...
Not wanting to be offensive, but that argument is biased.
And what's wrong with the current Croatian/Serbian forces? Are they less awesome than before to the point you wouldn't reproduce those battles in a modern context? How?

[BroCop]

Maybe because its not your ussual war...we have one side with a bunch of tanks, weapons and production capabilities whilst the other side has nothing but a couple of AK's,a bunch of WW2 era weapons and crop dusters instead of jets. Sure it sounds interesting to play (especially the militia vs militia concept) but IMO I do agree its almost impossible to recreate the same feeling. Giving them current arnaments in the real battles is totaly dull though but at least we could have the option to make some INS maps based in Afghanistan

[$pyker]

dobadan
kakoste

lol my croat is rusty i have absolutely loads of ref pics for dubrovnik as some of my family lives out there so if you need any images let me know

[DeltaFart]

I have no issues with using past wars, I mean that's waht Basrah and Fallujah are after all