Removal of the Incendiary Grenade/ Wire+Tanktrap fix

[Dev1200]

Scene:


Enemy firebase build inside an FOB (big sandbags with wires on top of them, map specific. Mostly on insurgency maps) in the mountains. All entrances are blocked by wire/tank traps. Whatever shall my squad do? Throw an incendiary, all is well, continue on to blow up the firebase, usually with another incendiary.

This defeats the purpose of wire/tank traps. It's not effective against anything. Doesn't block infantry, they can just blow it up with an incendiary grenade. Not effective against light vehicles, most light vehicles are driven by infantry. Not effective against armor, armor can just blow it up.


Giving infantry incendiary grenades makes the squad able to combat light vehicles with ease, just slide an incendiary underneath the truck, and boom. In some cases, you can also damage APC's with it.


I don't think regular army troops carry thermite grenades with them. Probably a combat engineer would. Medics even have a thermite grenade in game..

So, I suggest:

1. Removal of the Incendiary Grenade. Reason: Rifleman Specialist's breaching shotgun isn't used, since the Incendiary Grenade can do it's job, plus everyone has one. Wire/Tank traps no longer block, just hinders the squad momentarily.

2. Wire+Tank traps are no longer destroyed by vehicles, especially APCs and Tanks. Reason: Wire/Tank traps actually do their job, stopping infantry, light vehicles, or armor from entering an area. Also encourages infantry squads and rifleman specialists to be used to find alternate routes (for example, breaching a door, using the grappling hook).

3. If possible, let tank/wire traps no-collide with structures. For example, setting up a wire/tank trap inside an arch, blocking the arch out. Currently, it will either build on top of it or in the front or back, making it accessible to infantry, and in some cases, light vehicles.

[Alan]

Quite like the idea actually, especially with wire & tank traps not colliding with buildings -the number of times I just can't quite block that entrance due to "fly wire"...

As for vehicles being unable to blow the W&T up, yes that's also good:

a) Hedgehogs tend to roll over rather rather than explode in just about any hog vs. explosion circumstance.
b) Barbed wire tends to do the same thing -it needs to be deliberately cut, not just blown up (as the Brits proved in 1916)

I wouldn't say remove the incendiary grenade for all classes, give it to the Officer and Combat Engineer but no one else. I wouldn't think anyone else carries thermite grenades into battle anyway. Infantry just shrugging off the otherwise hard to penetrate wire is totally wrong -this would make a middle ground. It also means that a vehicle has to call in INF support to get past an otherwise blocked area, not just roll over the hedgehogs (which in reality should tear the bottom out!)

So, in other words:

1. To a degree

2. Yes.

3. Yes! Yes! Yes! (Although this may have a hardcoded aspect -but don't trust me as I know nothing.)

[Dev1200]

Having things no-collide isn't hardcoded. Pre .8 (methinks) had just plain wire, and sandbags were used to stop vehicles (I know, lal). You could intricately make wire block off a pathway by crossing each other, but still blocking infantry.


Giving it to the officer would be a bad idea.. since it's more readily available.

[EDIT]

Instead of giving it to the officer, maybe the specialist?

[R.J.Travis]

Scene:


Enemy firebase build inside an FOB (big sandbags with wires on top of them, map specific. Mostly on insurgency maps) in the mountains. All entrances are blocked by wire/tank traps. Whatever shall my squad do? Throw an incendiary, all is well, continue on to blow up the firebase, usually with another incendiary.

This defeats the purpose of wire/tank traps. It's not effective against anything. Doesn't block infantry, they can just blow it up with an incendiary grenade. Not effective against light vehicles, most light vehicles are driven by infantry. Not effective against armor, armor can just blow it up.


Giving infantry incendiary grenades makes the squad able to combat light vehicles with ease, just slide an incendiary underneath the truck, and boom. In some cases, you can also damage APC's with it.


I don't think regular army troops carry thermite grenades with them. Probably a combat engineer would. Medics even have a thermite grenade in game..

So, I suggest:

1. Removal of the Incendiary Grenade. Reason: Rifleman Specialist's breaching shotgun isn't used, since the Incendiary Grenade can do it's job, plus everyone has one. Wire/Tank traps no longer block, just hinders the squad momentarily.

2. Wire+Tank traps are no longer destroyed by vehicles, especially APCs and Tanks. Reason: Wire/Tank traps actually do their job, stopping infantry, light vehicles, or armor from entering an area. Also encourages infantry squads and rifleman specialists to be used to find alternate routes (for example, breaching a door, using the grappling hook).

3. If possible, let tank/wire traps no-collide with structures. For example, setting up a wire/tank trap inside an arch, blocking the arch out. Currently, it will either build on top of it or in the front or back, making it accessible to infantry, and in some cases, light vehicles.

Please READ up on what your saying most of it has been addressed in other threads.

1. Removal of the Incendiary Grenade. Reason: Rifleman Specialist's breaching shotgun isn't used, since the Incendiary Grenade can do it's job, plus everyone has one. Wire/Tank traps no longer block, just hinders the squad momentarily.

People would just use the rope to get by and the Incendiary is working as intended in this way.

2. Wire+Tank traps are no longer destroyed by vehicles, especially APCs and Tanks. Reason: Wire/Tank traps actually do their job, stopping infantry, light vehicles, or armor from entering an area. Also encourages infantry squads and rifleman specialists to be used to find alternate routes (for example, breaching a door, using the grappling hook).

No this is totally fake its not meant to stop them forever only slow them down if they wanted it to stop them they would add a deploy able ToW Learn to set up better defends.

3. If possible, let tank/wire traps no-collide with structures. For example, setting up a wire/tank trap inside an arch, blocking the arch out. Currently, it will either build on top of it or in the front or back, making it accessible to infantry, and in some cases, light vehicles.

Not possible or it would already be in-game the thermite grenade is a good way to remove badly placed wire.

[Sparatan117]

and sandbags were used to stop vehicles

We use sandbags as speed bumps in Iraq for check points. Works rather well. Those plastic made ones give out fast though.

[R.J.Travis]

We use sandbags as speed bumps in Iraq for check points. Works rather well. Those plastic made ones give out fast though.

LOL hell ya man (:

I'd like to see that crapy *** wire & tank traps stop a Tank IRL they would blast it to little pieces all over the place or push them out of the way with the barrel lol (:

[Dev1200]

Please READ up on what your saying most of it has been addressed in other threads.

1. Removal of the Incendiary Grenade. Reason: Rifleman Specialist's breaching shotgun isn't used, since the Incendiary Grenade can do it's job, plus everyone has one. Wire/Tank traps no longer block, just hinders the squad momentarily.

A) People would just use the rope to get by and the Incendiary is working as intended in this way.

2. Wire+Tank traps are no longer destroyed by vehicles, especially APCs and Tanks. Reason: Wire/Tank traps actually do their job, stopping infantry, light vehicles, or armor from entering an area. Also encourages infantry squads and rifleman specialists to be used to find alternate routes (for example, breaching a door, using the grappling hook).

B)No this is totally fake its not meant to stop them forever only slow them down if they wanted it to stop them they would add a deploy able ToW Learn to set up better defends.

3. If possible, let tank/wire traps no-collide with structures. For example, setting up a wire/tank trap inside an arch, blocking the arch out. Currently, it will either build on top of it or in the front or back, making it accessible to infantry, and in some cases, light vehicles.

C)Not possible or it would already be in-game the thermite grenade is a good way to remove badly placed wire.

They have been mentioned, not suggested or addressed.


A) That's the point. I said that the Incendiary grenade is too readily available, and devices set up to stop infantry or vehicles is pointless if you can easily blow them up.

B) How is it fake?

Example: Kashan Desert

Tank Traps are setup to stop tanks in the Bunkers area. I'm sure the map maker wouldn't put them there if you could just blow them up.

Tank Traps are dug into the ground, and explosions don't destroy them. Same with wire.

C) Pre .8 Had wire that could inter-lap to cut off an entire area to infantry. Firebase Assets are coded to be positioned on top of things, but sometimes will spawn inside of them (You can put AA onto one of the Bunker's air vents in kashan). How is it not possible if it happens? =\

Lrn2readposts

[R.J.Travis]

They have been mentioned, not suggested or addressed.


A) That's the point. I said that the Incendiary grenade is too readily available, and devices set up to stop infantry or vehicles is pointless if you can easily blow them up.

Please read up on the Incendiary grenade in 0.9 it wont affect Armor at all.

B) How is it fake?

there used to stop tanks from rushing in there used only to slow them down If the tank wants it gone it will just blast it away tanks can drive threw houses you think a small wire and tank trap from ww2 is going to stop it?

Example: Kashan Desert

Tank Traps are setup to stop tanks in the Bunkers area. I'm sure the map maker wouldn't put them there if you could just blow them up.

the ones set up by the map maker that can not be removed are there for balance but even those should be removed.

Tank Traps are dug into the ground, and explosions don't destroy them. Same with wire.

if you put a anti tank round right in a tank trap your going to blow it away.

C) Pre .8 Had wire that could inter-lap to cut off an entire area to infantry. Firebase Assets are coded to be positioned on top of things, but sometimes will spawn inside of them (You can put AA onto one of the Bunker's air vents in kashan). How is it not possible if it happens? =\

because its a bug where the game dues not read the wall being there to stop the building order kinda like how on some roof tops you can crawl right threw the roof trim.

Lrn2readposts

I did read your post there for this comment is void.

I edited your quote with my answers in bold/underline.

[Dev1200]

First of all, light vehicles don't classify as "armor", so humvee's will be easy to take out with the incendiary grenade.

Shooting the hedgehog (tank trap) would just roll it over.. and they're dug into the ground. At least make it so you have to shoot it 3-4 times instead of just 1... ruins the point of it. Won't even slow down the tank if it just blows it up in one shot.

IMO, the Bunkers area is setup so at least a part of the map is infantry-only. All others are usually taken by armor. That is why the Bunkers area has tank traps around them.


Don't you think a device built and developed for stopping vehicles (armor more specifically) would serve that purpose? That's like building AA stations that don't lock on ^^


If it's a bug in the game, I'm saying you can use it to our advantage. Instead of setting the system up where it's put "on top" of the terrain, have it setup where it's built at the same altitude, but no-collides with terrain..


It doesn't really seem like your reading what other people have to say, that's why I insisted that comment.

[snooggums]

I suggest giving the tank trap/razorwire a lot of health, enough that at least 3 incendiary grenades/tank shells are needed to destroy them. Either that or have them removed with the combat engineer's wrench to simulate the time and effort needed to dig out the iron bars/cut the wire clear.

[nick20404]

This has already been suggested, and the Devs said incendiary destroying vehicles will be removed.

Besides that in real life an incendiary would burn right threw a humvee, they actually use them to destroy humvees in real life if they get stuck and are not recoverable.

[Eagle345]

Ok, so how i see it so far:

1) Incendiary Grenades=Too versatile/powerful, limit it to Light armored (HMMWV, FAV, etc..), Cache destruction, and maybe firebase and asset destruction (After a good 3 or 4 Grenades)

2) Maybe they (the almighty developers) could make the tank traps (not the wire) dynamic ,as some barrels are, where they tip over when you hit them. So, theoretically, when the
tank hits the trap, it would roll, not a lot but just enough to give way a bit, and cause damage to the vehicle pushing it.

The Czech hedgehog was a static anti-tank obstacle defense made of angled iron (that is, lengths with an L- or H- shaped cross section) deployed during World War II by various combatants.
The hedgehog is very effective in keeping tanks from getting through a line of defense. It maintains its function even when tipped over by a nearby explosion. Although it may provide some scant cover for infantry, infantry forces are generally much less effective against fortified defensive positions than mechanized units. Wikipedia

3) As to the asset placement, I could really careless, if you put the wire behind a gate, they still cant get through. If you put it INFRONT of the gate, then they might be able to jump between the gap. You wouldn't be able to put it inbetween because you would need another object to fit the size.

As to 1 and 2, i hope to see those 2 put into effect

[nick20404]

Ok, so how i see it so far:

1) Incendiary Grenades=Too versatile/powerful, limit it to Light armored (HMMWV, FAV, etc..), Cache destruction, and maybe firebase and asset destruction (After a good 3 or 4 Grenades)

2) Maybe they (the almighty developers) could make the tank traps (not the wire) dynamic ,as some barrels are, where they tip over when you hit them. So, theoretically, when the
tank hits the trap, it would roll, not a lot but just enough to give way a bit, and cause damage to the vehicle pushing it.

The Czech hedgehog was a static anti-tank obstacle defense made of angled iron (that is, lengths with an L- or H- shaped cross section) deployed during World War II by various combatants.
The hedgehog is very effective in keeping tanks from getting through a line of defense. It maintains its function even when tipped over by a nearby explosion. Although it may provide some scant cover for infantry, infantry forces are generally much less effective against fortified defensive positions than mechanized units. Wikipedia

3) As to the asset placement, I could really careless, if you put the wire behind a gate, they still cant get through. If you put it INFRONT of the gate, then they might be able to jump between the gap. You wouldn't be able to put it inbetween because you would need another object to fit the size.

As to 1 and 2, i hope to see those 2 put into effect

Incendiary's were created for the specific purpose of destroying caches and Fb's so making it 3-4 grenades to destroy one would make them absolutely useless.


If anything they should take out light vehicles in 3-4 grenades not caches or fire bases.

[jeeao]

Even if you do manage to take out a tank trap with one shot, it wouldnt do you much good because they are placed in a staggered formation so you would have to shoot each and every one in order to carve a path. This means that it would be more realistic to make it take multiple shots to remove one. But to be fully realistic, they should only be able to be destroyed with c4.

[nick20404]

Even if you do manage to take out a tank trap with one shot, it wouldnt do you much good because they are placed in a staggered formation so you would have to shoot each and every one in order to carve a path. This means that it would be more realistic to make it take multiple shots to remove one. But to be fully realistic, they should only be able to be destroyed with c4.

Tank traps are not made out of brittle metal, if you shot a tank trap the round would shoot right threw the metal like it would on a tank, it would create a hole not blow the trap into pieces like a movie.

[Eagle345]

Incendiary's were created for the specific purpose of destroying caches and Fb's so making it 3-4 grenades to destroy one would make them absolutely useless.


If anything they should take out light vehicles in 3-4 grenades not caches or fire bases.

Ok, i see. So 1 incendiary would damage a Humvee and be able to take out a firebase? I guess that's reasonable considering that the firebase has no metal components save the radio. So the grenade would burn through sand? I think that the system is good as it is.

[nick20404]

Ok, i see. So 1 incendiary would damage a Humvee and be able to take out a firebase? I guess that's reasonable considering that the firebase has no metal components save the radio. So the grenade would burn through sand? I think that the system is good as it is.

First of all you don't even need the incendiary to destroy the FB you just have to destroy the raido IE knife it 3 times and run/ shoot it abunch of times and it will blow up.

Irl an incendiary on the engine block would disable the humvee or any vehicle really. but the game can't tell if you dropped it on the engine or trunk.

And the incendiary just destroys the base of the fb so it can't be rebuilt. magical dirt mounds the spawn human beings don't exists so saying the incendiary won't destroy it is just an assumption.

[Eagle345]

Irl an incendiary on the engine block would disable the humvee or any vehicle really. but the game can't tell if you dropped it on the engine or trunk.
.

Well then, every conventional army solider in PR would double as a anti-tank specialist?? I see where you're coming from and if the devs were striving for pure realism, i would agree 100%, but take game balance and playability into effect and you wouldn't be able to drive anything without getting burned alive (hmmm reminiscent of some other problem we had in .

[Bringerof_D]

first off wire can stop vehicles irl anyhow, it would only take out the tires. 2nd tanks and APC type vehicles should have no problem just driving over wire and suffer no damage at all. Tank traps on the other hand should be atleast effective against vehichles, you cant exactly just blow up a tank trap, although you can it'll still be there although slightly deformed it will still stop a tank, however it should only be a minor hindrance since they are only placed there and realistically would be removable simply by having 1 or 2 guys push it away. which would take all of 10 seconds