All round classes

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-05-02 19:08

After thinking about the current class system, ive decided I hate it.
The assualt is to powerfull as is, and the AT is a waste.

Id suggest something that's atleast a bit more "realistic".
Get rid of the Assault and AT classes, and start fresh.

2 classes:

Assualt would become the Grenadier

Knife
M4/M203: 4 Mag's/3 or 4 nades
Smoke x2
Binoculars

AT becomes Trooper Class

Knife
M16a4: 4 mags
2 M136 AT4's

The idea behind this, is that you take 2 relativley "general" classes, mix them together then split them.
Im sure their will be some people who disagree with me, so please dont start shouting out how wrong I am, just give your opinion and suggestions.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-02 19:10

another loadout for assault could be "rifleman" equipped with an m-16 ACOG, 2x frags, 1 smoke, knife, 7 mags, and ammo bags

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-05-02 19:19

The idea is that there is no Assualt class. If the dev team cant make the unlock system work, then we need to work out some balanced classes that encompass real world loadout's.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-05-02 19:25

Yes AT class needs to go and a dumb fire rocket weapon needs to replace the IR rockets. This would balance the issue of a solider with AT being the god class as tanks would be able to dodge the rocket if they saw it.

There should be like a pickup at kit that is a 1 hit kill like a javelin or something.

But still people would stack certain classes. Class limits is the holy grail..

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-02 19:32

YES ATLAST,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"another loadout for assault could be "rifleman" equipped with an m-16 ACOG, 2x frags, 1 smoke, knife, 7 mags, and ammo bags" - Six7 i love you (we agree uterly)

This has been repeated again and again but i will say it again:

rifle man - M16 + scope, 1 smoke, grenades and either ammo bag OR 1 dumb fire rocket

grenadier - M16 + M203, 2 smokes, and many M203 grenades

anti tank - pistol, reusable anti tank rocket with 3/4 rockets

support - SAW OR GMPG (one might be equipted with a scope)

markesman - M16 + scope + silencer, smoke, ext.

enginner - M4 (not completely decided), mines, C4 charge ext.

I have missed 2 out cos they are nto for definate but the above are

THE ABOVE IS ALMOST PERFECTION and any comments that disagree must come with excellent, logical and detailed reasoning

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-02 19:37

Remember the assault class is going to be packing ammo bags from 0.3 onwards. I like the thinking behind this, and I think it'd work, but I think a lot of people will miss wire guided missiles. And why does everyone totally forget about MEC and China in these suggestions? It'd probably be something like this:

Grenadier

Knife
AKS-74U/GL: 4 Mag's/3 or 4 nades
Smoke x2
Binoculars

Trooper Class

Knife
AK-47U (folding stock): 4 mags
2 RPGs

This'd probably be for both MEC and China, seeing as they seem to like sharing weapons. There are variants that could be used, but it'd probably be something along those lines, the RPG a must.

K.Larsen · Post by **K.Larsen** » 2006-05-02 19:40

Top _Cat the great wrote:YES ATLAST,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"another loadout for assault could be "rifleman" equipped with an m-16 ACOG, 2x frags, 1 smoke, knife, 7 mags, and ammo bags" - Six7 i love you (we agree uterly)

This has been repeated again and again but i will say it again:

rifle man - M16 + scope, 1 smoke, grenades and either ammo bag OR 1 dumb fire rocket

grenadier - M16 + M203, 2 smokes, and many M203 grenades

anti tank - pistol, reusable anti tank rocket with 3/4 rockets

support - SAW OR GMPG (one might be equipted with a scope)

markesman - M16 + scope + silencer, smoke, ext.

enginner - M4 (not completely decided), mines, C4 charge ext.

I have missed 2 out cos they are nto for definate but the above are

THE ABOVE IS ALMOST PERFECTION and any comments that disagree must come with excellent, logical and detailed reasoning

The marksman would of course use the designated marksman weapon? The M14 DMS (Designated Marksman System), not an M16.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-05-02 19:41

Top Cat, I think you're missing the point here. As the saying goes 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' and in this case, the only 'broken' kits are the Assault and AT class. This system aims to replace them with similar kits, keeping the key features of both. At the moment, alternative loadouts are apparently not possible, meaning the unlock system being exclusive for each side doesn't seem possible. This means that the existing kits will need to remain, and this system aims to balance them out. There is absolutely no reason to completely and utterly change every aspect of the currently well rounded kit system, and it'll just waste the devs' much needed time if they're to completely overhaul the whole thing.

JellyBelly · Post by **JellyBelly** » 2006-05-02 19:45

And like I said in the first post, top cat. The AT is a useless waste. Bin it. Get a class in that has the ability to fill a role, and still be combat effective. As the AT class is now, its not practical. An SMG will just create new problems, so why keep it? Who says we have to follow the already defined classes? Why can't we make some new ones, condense existing ones and mix it up a bit.

All you've done in your list, top cat, is give every class an M16 then added silencers and scopes.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-05-02 19:50

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-02 20:10

lol , sorry, was a bit hatty. OK, looking the orginal point:
- so where are the ammo bags, support no longer has them for good reason?
- the trooper class would work well on maps with a light and mabey the odd heavy one, 2 RPg's being enough to destroy most vehicles. However on larger maps with say 2 MTB and 2 LAV you would need a atleast and mabey over 6 trooper class. THis is failry extreme when half that number of soley AT class could do the same job better. Allowing the other half to be equipted with more potente anti infantry weapons.

I am also slightly ocnfused cos i have been told that the Dev's trying to have a rifle man with a dumb fire rocket IS this the same as your trooper class?

Completely getting rid of the sole AT class would be unrealistic, even if we have it and it is only used on a third of the maps, well that is jsut fine. In real war you are equipted with teh weapons you need to complete the objective and sometimes this means specalized things, like the sole AT class.

Technicaly my "rifle man" is similar to your trooper but mine is not designed to completely replace the present AT class. THERE ARE REALLY very few differences between our ideas, i would jsut keep the soleAT class and my grenadier class is identical to yours. Sorry if i led us/ me astray, so we are debatting whether to keep the sole AT class or not - simple

LOL - contrast in suposidly agreeing peeps "tterly change every aspect of the currently well rounded kit system" AND "have to follow the already defined classes?"

K.Larsen · Post by **K.Larsen** » 2006-05-02 20:20

Top _Cat the great wrote:Completely getting rid of the sole AT class would be unrealistic

You've talked to a lot of "anti-tank" infantry men then? I haven't seen 'em around somehow.

SiN|ScarFace · Post by **SiN|ScarFace** » 2006-05-02 20:24

The infantryman is the basis of all roles. You can give them tools to use but its not like command and conqure where each class is totally different. A marine with an at4 is still an infantry man. So it would be unrealistic to have an AT guy whos only purpose in combat is to shoot at tanks.

Infantry are not meant to kill tanks.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-02 20:31

lol, i saw one in WAr of the worlds! - hollywood never lies! ermmm
I also checked a link i saw and then looked very carefully to see that he did have a m16 and scope! Afer carefull analyings my opinion i can find little evidence to support it, my bad. BUT please could some one tell me what the reall situation is, are their ever sole AT or only raily or not at all? thanks

I had a look through army tech, and found the Javilin, a fairly beasty weapon but i am not sure how much it is used by marines or atall for amattter of fact, BUT still worth looking at:
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/javelin/

ok the present AT is unrealistic BUt we could have a 2 classes that are equipted with AT rocker, a rifle man wiht a single dumb fire and another again with a rifle but has relodable rocket launcher with 3 rockets. The man with the dumb fire one could also have smokes grenade and ammo bag but the other could only have 1 or mabey 2 (not sure which one but not ammo bag).

THis is just an idea, WITH THE IDEA THAT on some maps only a small number of AT are required, a very small number but on others it is triple that number. There is often nevery anything much imbetween and a class that was imbetween like the tooper, could be waste full, not equipted to deal with either ituation very well. - just another opinion

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-05-02 20:34

SiN|ScarFace wrote:The infantryman is the basis of all roles. You can give them tools to use but its not like command and conqure where each class is totally different. A marine with an at4 is still an infantry man. So it would be unrealistic to have an AT guy whos only purpose in combat is to shoot at tanks.

Infantry are not meant to kill tanks.

They're meant to kill everything. They are equipped with weapons to kill tanks. That's why Infantrymen go to javeline/tow gunnery school. That's what an 11Hotel is. An infantryman who sits atop a Humvee with a TOW to take out tanks.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-05-02 20:35

I think the anti-tank class (equipped with more advanced AT weapons such as the Javelin, Eryx, SRAW, etc) should be dealt away with on maps that don't have MBTs (main battle tanks).

As for the USMC classes, here's my idea

Rifleman
M16A4 (M16A4 + Aimpoint 68 would be unlockable)
330 rounds
4 M67 frag grenades
2 smoke grenades
Binoculars
Ka-Bar knife

Grenadier/Anti-tank rifleman
M16A4
300 rounds
M203 GL/1 AT-4 or SMAW-D
12 HE grenades/2 M67 grenades
4 smoke grenades/0 smoke grenades
Ka-Bar knife

Automatic Rifleman
M249 SAW
600-800 rounds
2 M67 frag grenades
Ka-Bar knife

Marksman
SAM-R/M14 DMR
80 rounds
M9
45 rounds
Binoculars
Ka-Bar knife

Corpsman
M16A2
240 rounds
20 Tourniquettes
10 "revives"
Ka-Bar knife

Machine Gunner (pick up kit)
M240G
600 rounds
M9
45 rounds
Ka-Bar knife

Engineer
M16A4/Mossberg 870
210 rounds/40 rounds
Satchel charge
2 AT mines
Wrench

Deuce6 · Post by **Deuce6** » 2006-05-02 20:36

And that Javelin alone is lightweight, but not with the rest of your ****. I had to chase down some BMP's in Ft. Polk and it kicked my ***!

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-02 20:41

M16A4
300 rounds
M203 GL/1 AT-4 or SMAW
12 HE grenades/2 M67 grenades
4 smoke grenades/0 smoke grenades
Ka-Bar knife

Seems like a lot of HE greandes other than that and the marksman ammo i quite like your clasess.

Cerberus · Post by **Cerberus** » 2006-05-02 20:43

trogdor1289 wrote:M16A4
300 rounds
M203 GL/1 AT-4 or SMAW
12 HE grenades/2 M67 grenades
4 smoke grenades/0 smoke grenades
Ka-Bar knife

Seems like a lot of HE greandes other than that and the marksman ammo i quite like your clasess.

Deuce posted a pic of what he took with him on missions and he had about 12 HE's, judging by the looks of it.

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-05-02 20:47

[R-PUB]Cerberus - i like it. couple of quesitons:
- where are the ammo bags
- 1 AT-4 or SMAW - which of these is disposable and if so, could 2 of a certain one be carried, or is 1 a definate?
- HOW would pick up kits work, cos we have rubbish bases and they constanly chnage hands - bit complicated!?! - THE whole idea hinges on this and it seems quite risky, confusing (needs alot of attention and consideration)
- What is point in unlockes, personaly i get no pleasure in them cos they do not refelct skill, any noob who spends enough time will can get them, with in 3 months every one will have one and it will almost be pointless and quite silly.

Other than those things i like it very much compared to previous suggestions. I think my above post was not posted when the following 2 where done, did not read i but tis ahead.