Help on a few issues that worries me...

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-05-09 09:21

Hi!
A friend of mine who plays BF2 "normal" mode made me aware of a "problem" that concerns "tactical spawning" as a means to get ahead in the game. I`ll try to explain;

A squad is formed, and the squad leader takes of in a helicopter (Black Hawk or simular). While playing, he positions himself in such a way that when people in his squad spawns inside the chopper, the team gets a tactical advantage in the game! (Rapid deployment of some kind...)

I personally feel that in order to keep things as realistic as possible, you should not be allowed to spawn anywhere but at the "home base" or at a flag that your team controls, but that`s just me.....

So to my question;
Is it possible for someone running a server to deny people the opportunity to spawn at your squad leader??

Another issue; can an engineer repair the helicopter he is sitting in? This also worries me, because in theory, it could be hard/impossible to shoot down a helo if this is the case...

Any thoughts on these subjects?

regards

TJ

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-05-09 09:30

yes we do know of this, and there is also squad hopping.

But we want to keep the sqawn on squad leaders as it keeps on squad togther and encorages teamwork whihc is 1 of the main bits about this mod.

Its really a very hard thing to stop people from exsploiting it but we are allways thinking up new ways of going about it. Thanks for the post and hope you download and enjoy the next version of PRMM!

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-05-09 11:12

Hi again.

Thanks for the quick reply on the "squad spawn" situation.

Do you have info regarding the other questions too? Can a server "shut down" some functions in order to avoid such spawn tactis, or can`t anything be done to avoid it?
Also; Helicopter repairs in midair, is this possible?

TJ

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-05-09 11:19

i dont think its possible to do that server side.

[ZiiP]DarkJester · Post by **[ZiiP]DarkJester** » 2006-05-09 11:44

TJ-A- wrote: A squad is formed, and the squad leader takes of in a helicopter (Black Hawk or simular). While playing, he positions himself in such a way that when people in his squad spawns inside the chopper, the team gets a tactical advantage in the game! (Rapid deployment of some kind...)

I presume you mean the SL flys really high in the sky and people respawn on the helo when they die? yes?..

I disagree with you that this is a problem. Infact, I see it as a fesiable tactic that takes into aspect of idea of paratroops entering a warzone. Not everyone walks into battle you know.

A squad leader is effectively making a mobile spawn point for his squad. What difference is it if he hides in the air, compared to if he hides on the ground? His squad can still spawn on him.

The problem here is that it is usual clans that can get themselves organised to use such a tactic. Joe Public players just don't get it. I remember hovering high as a pilot over the carrier on Iron Gator for SF (a very very very hard map to get a foothold) - only a small handfull released what I was doing, and took advantage of it. everyone else just moaned "where's our transport chopper gone??"

The other thing to remember, is the pilot it the chopper get no benefit. no action, no points, no kills - nothing. Therefore, imo, he is sacrficing his game to support his squad. hmmm.. to me, that's teamwork.

Anyhow - as for Squad hopping.. i'm glad that's been eliminated soon. Once your in a squad, you should stay in it.

Just a couple of thoughts from a different angle.

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-05-09 12:17

'[ZiiP wrote:DarkJester']I presume you mean the SL flys really high in the sky and people respawn on the helo when they die? yes?..

I disagree with you that this is a problem. Infact, I see it as a fesiable tactic that takes into aspect of idea of paratroops entering a warzone. Not everyone walks into battle you know.

A squad leader is effectively making a mobile spawn point for his squad. What difference is it if he hides in the air, compared to if he hides on the ground? His squad can still spawn on him.

The problem here is that it is usual clans that can get themselves organised to use such a tactic. Joe Public players just don't get it. I remember hovering high as a pilot over the carrier on Iron Gator for SF (a very very very hard map to get a foothold) - only a small handfull released what I was doing, and took advantage of it. everyone else just moaned "where's our transport chopper gone??"

The other thing to remember, is the pilot it the chopper get no benefit. no action, no points, no kills - nothing. Therefore, imo, he is sacrficing his game to support his squad. hmmm.. to me, that's teamwork.

Anyhow - as for Squad hopping.. i'm glad that's been eliminated soon. Once your in a squad, you should stay in it.

Just a couple of thoughts from a different angle.

Hi!

Good info! Like to hear other ideas/views.
A healthy debate with muliple views on the subject is always a good thing.

I guess when it comes to BF2 Realitymod, it all comes down to individual "taste" for what possibilities the game should hold. Making everyone "happy" is almost impossible. I was more or less just kind of thinking out loud as to how "real" a reality mod could get....

Speaking stricktly from my point of view now; In my world, spawning inside a helicopter over the battle ground is not very realistic... One should at least assemble the troops at an airbase/carrier, take off fully loaded and FLY into the zone before deploying the troops. I guess I just like the idea of a rally point somewhere outside enemy teritory, where your troops deploy and organise before they have to fight their way all the way into enemy teritory.

Don`t get me wrong! I see your points here when it comes to paratroopers and their way of incertion. As long as a player can spawn on a squad leader, we just have to deal with the fact that it happens. As you point out, not all players (far from it!) do this, and it has resently been raised as an issue by a friend of mine. Just thought it would be interesting to hear what others think.

respectfully

TJ

GrossKopf · Post by **GrossKopf** » 2006-05-09 12:26

Spawning isn't realistic either, but it's part of the game.. once you die in real life, you are dead... gotta make SOME comprimises. After all, it's a game.

There's nothing wrong with spawning on your squad leader, as it encourages teamwork. I know some people are going to be upset with the changes in this mod that penalize you for changing squads. I personally don't do it, but I know a lot of times when someone is the last person in their squad after their squad leader dies, they will form a new squad and the other squad members join that squad, then spawn on the new squad leader. If the squad leader dies, sometimes the SL will leave and rejoin the squad so they can respawn on the new squad leader. This annoys me because there are times when I want to be squad leader (and I actually LEAD) and then there are times i just want mindless killing!

As far as the helo, yes, it can be repaired in the air. In a previous patch, the rate at which it is repaired was slowed down because a group would get into a blackhawk, capping flags while engineers repaired the chopper. Now you'll get blown out of the air quicker than you can repair.

[ZiiP]DarkJester · Post by **[ZiiP]DarkJester** » 2006-05-09 12:27

Yep. I do see your point too.

I really speak from a vanilla point of view than an PRMM point of view. - tbh, the mentality of players that play PRMM or more likely to operate a "taxi" service to ferry troops back and forth between locations... especially with the littlebird.

The main reason for this.. which I've just rememebered - is that only spec ops have parachutes in PRMM!!! so people spawning as medics, engineers and stuff are gonna have a bit of a bump on their heads when they bail out lol

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-05-09 12:43

Lol!
GrossKopf and (ziip)DarkJester:
I like the way both of you think here.
Spawning isn`t realistic, it`s a game as you mention. Squads are important, because it promotes teamplay (whis is lacking in "normal" BF2 in my opinion). Good to hear that helos still can be shot down even if they are repaired in midair. Any chance we`ll se hand held Stingers instead of "fixed" ones in the future by the way??

Reality is the way of the future in FPS games if you ask me.

The reason why I`m asking all these questions is that my squad (approx 20 people) are in the prosess of looking at new platforms. We`ve played Novalogics "Joint Ops :Reality" but are tierd of bugs and the lack of support and patches... Maybe BF2:R is an option....

Here is our website.. (Mostly in Norwegian....)
http://www.aurora-warzone.com

See you on the battlefield!

TJ

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-05-10 19:15

i see TJs point, but also take into consideration, in real life a blackhawk/seahawk can carry at least 20 people + crew (don't quote me on that) so really, on a 32 player map, the whole team SHOULD be able to hop into the chopper and all para out, but since you cant, just think about the SL and his troops as other reinforments =)

Post by **e-Gor** » 2006-05-10 19:26

Yes, you can remove the SL spawn point. Yes, it probably can be done server side. I haven't tested it, but it should do, although it'd be complicated. However, the SL spawn point is the only thing that keeps any teamwork at all in BF2. Removing it would make the whole game chaos. Although this is a realism mod, teamwork and the amount of fun you can have also play a part in what we do. You wouldn't want something that's uber realistic, yet boring as hell, for example.

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-05-10 19:41

'[R-CON wrote:Riki_Rude_BTYC']i see TJs point, but also take into consideration, in real life a blackhawk/seahawk can carry at least 20 people + crew (don't quote me on that) so really, on a 32 player map, the whole team SHOULD be able to hop into the chopper and all para out, but since you cant, just think about the SL and his troops as other reinforments =)

4 players bail out of a chopper leaving the pilot (SL) alone in the sky.
Another 4 players suddenly spawn.

Pilot: Gah! Where the hell did you 4 come from!?
Troop 1: We were in the overhead compartments
Pilot: Give me a break!
Troop 2: It's true!
Various noises start coming from the overhead compatments, inlcuding commander orders.
Pilot: What was that?
Troop 3: The other troops are waiting for us to bail.
Pilot: The other troops?! You mean there are more in there?!
Troop 4: Dude...the whole teams in there.
More noises can be heard form the compartments including what sounds like a game of strip poker.
Pilot:The whole team! Then why aren't they weighing down the chopper?
Troop 1: ummm actually they kinda are, we've been plummeting to the ground for 10minutes now.
Troop 2: Yeah it's why the other guys bailed
Overhead Compartment: Hey guys move it I'm down to my last piece of clothing!
The pilot looks forward and sees the Blackhawk heading straight for the ground.
Pilot: ...ah hell.
The Blackhawk nosedives straight into the ground sending debris and marine undergarments everywhere.

GrossKopf · Post by **GrossKopf** » 2006-05-10 22:11

Solitas wrote:4 players bail out of a chopper leaving the pilot (SL) alone in the sky.
Another 4 players suddenly spawn.

Funny stuff - reminds me of a Monty Python sketch.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-05-10 22:14

Nice Solitas that was pretty funny.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-05-10 23:24

I must say, I would love to see someone actualy act out that sketch. Would be halarious

Solitas · Post by **Solitas** » 2006-05-10 23:27

trogdor1289 wrote:Nice Solitas that was pretty funny.

I have my moments

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-05-10 23:33

Solitas wrote:4 players bail out of a chopper leaving the pilot (SL) alone in the sky.
Another 4 players suddenly spawn.

Pilot: Gah! Where the hell did you 4 come from!?
Troop 1: We were in the overhead compartments
Pilot: Give me a break!
Troop 2: It's true!
Various noises start coming from the overhead compatments, inlcuding commander orders.
Pilot: What was that?
Troop 3: The other troops are waiting for us to bail.
Pilot: The other troops?! You mean there are more in there?!
Troop 4: Dude...the whole teams in there.
More noises can be heard form the compartments including what sounds like a game of strip poker.
Pilot:The whole team! Then why aren't they weighing down the chopper?
Troop 1: ummm actually they kinda are, we've been plummeting to the ground for 10minutes now.
Troop 2: Yeah it's why the other guys bailed
Overhead Compartment: Hey guys move it I'm down to my last piece of clothing!
The pilot looks forward and sees the Blackhawk heading straight for the ground.
Pilot: ...ah hell.
The Blackhawk nosedives straight into the ground sending debris and marine undergarments everywhere.

ROFL would make a good scene on Mine. Maybe do an in game skit lol

Post by **RikiRude** » 2006-05-11 05:38

hehehhe, nice job sol, that had me laughing

TJ-A- · Post by **TJ-A-** » 2006-05-11 13:22

Solitas wrote:4 players bail out of a chopper leaving the pilot (SL) alone in the sky.
Another 4 players suddenly spawn.

Pilot: Gah! Where the hell did you 4 come from!?
Troop 1: We were in the overhead compartments
Pilot: Give me a break!
Troop 2: It's true!
Various noises start coming from the overhead compatments, inlcuding commander orders.
Pilot: What was that?
Troop 3: The other troops are waiting for us to bail.
Pilot: The other troops?! You mean there are more in there?!
Troop 4: Dude...the whole teams in there.
More noises can be heard form the compartments including what sounds like a game of strip poker.
Pilot:The whole team! Then why aren't they weighing down the chopper?
Troop 1: ummm actually they kinda are, we've been plummeting to the ground for 10minutes now.
Troop 2: Yeah it's why the other guys bailed
Overhead Compartment: Hey guys move it I'm down to my last piece of clothing!
The pilot looks forward and sees the Blackhawk heading straight for the ground.
Pilot: ...ah hell.
The Blackhawk nosedives straight into the ground sending debris and marine undergarments everywhere.

Ha ha!! Hillarious!! Loved it!

TJ

ETCS_keysR · Post by **ETCS_keysR** » 2006-05-11 13:38

TJ-A- wrote: The reason why I`m asking all these questions is that my squad (approx 20 people) are in the prosess of looking at new platforms. We`ve played Novalogics "Joint Ops :Reality" but are tierd of bugs and the lack of support and patches... Maybe BF2:R is an option....

bring them on

Project Reality is a great mod, you'll sure like it - and we need more cannon fodder to get things going, especially from Europe