Idea for Cqc

[AquaticPenguin]

I'm not sure whether this is hard-coded or possibly a resuggest so I'll keep it brief <- you can lock it if it's either of those.

At the moment it's very hard for people with scopes up close because un-scoped is inaccurate and scoping in takes too long to effectively return fire. I was wondering whether it was possible to speed up the scope in animation for the scopes, and simulate the sighting in by linking it to the suppression effect, so you can fire very quickly but at the cost of accuracy.

~Ed

[killonsight95]

well no because that the sacrifice you have to make with scopes a low speed AIM but good at longer ranges so jsut use iron sights

[McBumLuv]

Technically, it should be faster to sight in with Scopes than with iron sight (but no different than Red dots) because you don't have to close your eye, focus through the sights, etc...

In all honesty, I'd much rather see soldiers "shouldering" their guns and looking next to the sights when walking, and then using the sprint function as your jog. As it is now, soldiers are always jogging.

[AquaticPenguin]

I wasn't planning on having the scopes at the same level as the ironsights, plus you would initially have uber-blur + uber-deviation if you came from moving. But with the right balance, I think it would make it less irritating and smoother than currently where you right click, wait 1.5 seconds, and then acquire targets. And less annoying than firing 3 bursts and missing someone looking the other way because you couldn't afford to scope in.

Also when I come up against people with scopes in Cqc I often find their tactics involve prone-diving whilst they scope in giving them minimal deviation and a clear view. With the addition of prone-deviation in patch 1.50 (whenever that things comes out) that tactic will all but disappear and any advantage in close range tactics the scope rifleman have will disappear along with it.

[McBumLuv]

For CQC, why wouldn't you shoulder your weapon and walk at the same time?

THe thing is, many armies (such as the Canadian one) issue scopes to every soldier. And yet they still perform CQC, room-to-room fighting. Why is that? Because they can still operate properly with scopes, and if looking through them proves to be too much of a zoom for the close proximity of the fighting, then they would simply look beside the scope, parallel to the barrel.

That's all you need to do, shoulder the weapon and look next to it when walking, and retain jogging/running as the main form of "sprint" by increasing the sprint time to about 3 minutes.

[ReadMenace]

Technically, it should be faster to sight in with Scopes than with iron sight (but no different than Red dots) because you don't have to close your eye, focus through the sights, etc...

Most telescopic sights suffer from parallax -- this increases the time that the user would require to focus on their target and engage it effectively. Ease of use in this order: Red dot > Iron Sights > Telescopic sight.

-REad

[Rudd]

I don't think any solution to Scope CQB abilities is really gonna work apart from taking away the Binoculars and adding in a Undeployed mode. (Seriously...you can use the scope instead of binos anyways )

The Undeployed mode would work like the LMG undepoyed mode, i.e. a side view in as if you are steadying the rifle, but not using the scope.

[McBumLuv]

Read, you're right. I was wrong. I was... thinking of something else :/

Though, I don't see why my suggestion wouldn't work. Rather than use an extra weapon like Rudd's idea, it would use the same weapon, but do it through an animation. I'll make a detailed explanation for it in another thread, though.

[TY2D2]

Read, you're right. I was wrong. I was... thinking of something else :/

Though, I don't see why my suggestion wouldn't work. Rather than use an extra weapon like Rudd's idea, it would use the same weapon, but do it through an animation. I'll make a detailed explanation for it in another thread, though.

Yea but with your suggestion in effect it would take 3 times longer to get anywhere.
And it requires a custom animation if they are going to be walking steady and replacing sprint with extended jog. This would also suck because of the way jumping is handled, we cant give players more jumping abilities, so once they jump most their stamina goes down and they lose their 3 minutes of jogging? It just wont work.

The problem with rudds idea is that when switching between undeployed and deployed it would take so long that whenever you have to switch quickly, you would be dead before you were done holding your gun back up. An instant switch between them is hardcoded I think, you cant make weapons switch faster depending on what gun you have out atm, so if it was instant people would be able to deploy their rifle just as fast whenthey had grenades or their knife out.


PR is working in a limited engine, in which the way it is now is really the best/only way it can be done somewhat effectively. IRL not nearly as many soldiers fight with iron sights as they do in PR, it's just not as effective the way they can utilize their weapons, in PR we have to have a good amount of iron sights because of the way scopes are at a disadvantage in CQC. This is just they way it has to be.

[Rudd]

The problem with rudds idea is that when switching between undeployed and deployed it would take so long that whenever you have to switch quickly, you would be dead before you were done holding your gun back up.

it works reasonably with the LMG.

[TY2D2]

it works reasonably with the LMG.

Yea but in regular circumstances you have time with an LMg, or you should.

If you are firing at insurgents on a mountain, then a squad mate in the building next to you in gunned down at point blank, you won't have that much time if he pops out of the door next to you.

[McBumLuv]

And it requires a custom animation if they are going to be walking steady and replacing sprint with extended jog. This would also suck because of the way jumping is handled, we cant give players more jumping abilities, so once they jump most their stamina goes down and they lose their 3 minutes of jogging? It just wont work.

Well, the entire way sprint is handled would be changed so that those aren't problems, the sprint bar could set to infinite, really, or the jog made slightly faster than it is now and upped to 3 minutes, so that it makes up for the lack of sprint. Of course the depletion of sprint due to jumping would be addressed if that were to be, because bunny hoping would be just as ineffective (since you can jump as many times as you want and only jog). In the end, though, getting from point A to point B shouldn't be much if at all slower, and CQC would be heavily improved.

TBH, it would be a pretty big change in the sprint system, and would require many animation overhauls, but it's entirely doable. I'd love to see what it looks like with even just one kit (get to work Chuc )

[Robert-The-Bruce]

The way I see this the problem is twofold:

1. the wait until you can hit your target is much too long at short ranges

2. we need some sort of indication where you are aiming without having to bring up the sights.


concerning 1:

Imo the problem here is that the accuracy increases much too linear with time. Ideally the accuracy to aimtime graph should be more like a square root function, getting alot better very quickly but say a second in beeing much slower in gaining accuracy. I hope everyone understands how I mean this.



concerning 2:

now I know I'll be bashed for my second point because it would probably involve some kind of "reticle" be it a wide open cross or circle or whatever. You have to concider however that it's quite easy for a human to aim something. You are all able to aim things without "looking down the sights" because you do it almost every day with your finger! And it's also easy for all of you to know where someone else is pointing his finger although you don't "look down the sights". This is pretty much impossible to do on a screen because it's only twodimensional and the gun doesn't actuallly point to the middle of the screen.


I'm not really sure what you are trying to achieve with fiddling around with the sprint system. Maybe explain again in a way someone of my inferior intellect can understand too please ops:

[Robert-The-Bruce]

bumpetybump?

[McBumLuv]

About your first one, I'm not sure, but I believe that deviation works in a linear manner, unfortunately. However, I agree that for CQC to improve, I'd much prefer if walking only would allow you to use the weapon much more effectively than it is at the moment, but running to reset the deviation to even greater (However, I'm not sure if it's possible to have a great deviation reset than while walking).

As for two, a reticle would be unessecary and a very, very bad move backwards to the very first thing PR did right. While it is possible to get a sense of where one is aiming IRL, there is only a considerable difference when looking down next to and parallel to the sights. This isn't done ingame, but as you can read from the previous posts, is what I'd like to see changed.

[AquaticPenguin]

Maybe having a default walk and a fast jog as the "sprint" would make more sense, you don't exactly see people jogging everywhere in real life.

I still think something needs to be done about the scopes, it's irritating having a long pause before the weapon is brought up and I think having a blur would make the transition smoother. It doesn't promote good tactics either - It's very difficult to flank someone if when you get close up it's a battle of spray and pray, you should be rewarded for flanking them instead of having to fire randomly in the hope you kill them before they turn and kill you.

I've always wondered whether a deviation curve was possible but I always thought it was hardcoded. The current stage of PRs deviation is bearable but it's still not as intuitive as it could be. I doubt a recticle is necessary, anyone who has spent any time playing FPS' can judge the center of the screen pretty well.

[Robert-The-Bruce]

Regarding the reticle, I take back my statements. I've tried shooting without sighting in extensively today and it's actually not that hard to judge the point of aim. I guess it's the deviation taking even longer(compared to beeing sighted in) to get to acceptable levels that made me think this.

The point of the deviatoin settling in a less linear manner... well it's all about changing the formula with which deviation is calculated and I have no knowledge whatever wether this is anchored in python scripts or somewhere "deeper" in the code... (nugde, nudge)Dev comments would be appreciated

edit: concerning looking next to the sights: I don't think this is necessary, since really you walk with your waepon shouldered anyway and as I said before you have a good sense of where you are aiming (middle of the screen). Besides you would rather look down the sights I think than next to them...

[abbadon101]

I am unsure if this has been mentioned (either in this thread or any other), but could we not simply us the system that is being used for the AR, have 2 weapons slots with linked ammo one aims down the side or over the top of the scope, the other uses the actual scope. Yes I know we are limited to 9 weapon slots but

1.Knife
2.Shovel/Pistol/hands
3.CQB aim
4.Scope aim
5.Grenades/kit specific
6.Other(kit related)
7.Smoke
8.Patch
9.Incendiary (personaly would like to see this go to Specialist's and Engi's only)

each of these could be fine tuned for each kit (ie. medic looses Grenades but gain epipens and medic bag).
Yes this may eliminate the need for Rifleman Iron sights in some forces (british for one as EVERYONE is issued a SUSAT but I know this has been talked about) but it would be cool to see a Faction specific kit take it place (ie. Aimpoint for US, L22 for the British (has been know to be issued 1 per section for the point man),...)

[Rudd]

es this may eliminate the need for Rifleman Iron sights in some forces (british for one as EVERYONE is issued a SUSAT

side note, I was watching the Royal Airforce ATC diaries on Youtube, she and others were going around with Irons instead.

and what do you mean medic loses grenades?....

[abbadon101]

The medic in PR doesn't get frags as we all know. I am unsure as to what the RAFR are equipped with as they are not who I am trying to join and I am sure that at times Iron sights are more suitable but that is why on top of the SUSAT there Emergency Battle Sights (a set of small Iron sight for CQB and as a back up if your SuSAT gets damaged).

EDIT

Just youtubed RAF ATC and the reason she might be only issued Iron sights is she is a Air Traffic Controller and so isn't expected to be going toe to toe with terry.