Bringing the 'Disabled' effect to Fixed-Wing Aircraft

[Celestial1]

Going by the same concept that causes the helicopters to currently become 'disabled', just applying the same effect to Jets.

If the jet is hit and triggers the 'disabled' effect, it would work similarly to the helicopter's counterpart, just that it is not used so that the jet can 'land', but so that the pilot has a moment to bail out with dignity, instead of either bailing out in fear during a situation he could have survived through and continued flying, or going down with the ship, as it were. The plane would erupt soon afterwards, but would be a bit of time before doing so to allow a window of 'bail out' time for the pilot.

This would allow the possibility for more pilots to bail without feeling like it was a silly move; when the jet is disabled, there is no way to fix it. Bailing out can only be a positive thing, and would encourage small rescue teams to rescue safe pilots (often, helicopters can be seen on deck during muttrah, barracuda, etc when not running supply runs, and this could give some mid-round moments where the pilots have a small mission to run).



(This is being used part of a larger suggestion that uses this idea, but I thought it deserved it's own thread first, as it is an independant suggestion, that can be applied without the other.)

[SkaterCrush]

Except Jet Fuel+Missile=



I mean yeah theoretically it works, but its very unrealistic, and I think that pilot being worth the tickets is a better one

[badmojo420]

Ever write out a long post and click reply only to get an error and when you go back its all gone

i guess the general message was +1 this idea

[Celestial1]

Except Jet Fuel+Missile= [Insert BOOM here]

I mean yeah theoretically it works, but its very unrealistic, and I think that pilot being worth the tickets is a better one

I do understand that.


But I would have to call shenanigans on the unrealistic claim. Pilots are still able to eject from jets after being hit by missles. What I assume is that the missle erupts as close as it can to the exhuast of the plane, to ignite the fuel inside the fuel tank, and then that fuel will become alight, begin burning, and then cause a pressure buildup in the tank causing the explosion (this of course happens extremely quickly), but it doesn't immediately tear the plane into tiny bits or anything, but it definitely does 'disable' the plane by forcibly ripping and blowing off a lot of important bits and creates a lot of flames going about the plane, but it is still survivable.

Albeit, after the missle hits, the plane is a fiery hunk of metal floating from the sky; but that's the beauty of this suggestion:

This effect would do the same thing... unfortunately it doesn't immediately include the awesome fireball of doom effect. That can be worked in later, though, maybe. You know, like... after the AA missle explodes and does that critical damage, a huge explosion effect occurs and then the plane becomes disabled and flames and heavy smoke start pouring out (totally not sure if any of this awesomeness can be done, but I can dream).

And the pilot being worth tickets kind of banks on this being implemented because it's not very often a pilot will feel 'right' about ejecting... His plane going down like a giant metal birdy falling from it's next will make him feel a bit more right about getting the heck out of the plane.

EDIT: Well, I guess I dropped the ball on making it clear that the plane wouldn't just fall until it hit the ground. Added the following to the original post: "The plane would erupt soon afterwards, but would be a bit of time before doing so to allow a window of 'bail out' time for the pilot."

@badmojo sorry to hear your post got lost in the limbo... did you have any changes that you thought should be made to the suggestion or did you pretty much agree with it?

[Cheditor]

This is kind of already in game, well in a way. If you fly around on a full kashan training server you will easily notice this with the amount of tunguskas after you. You get hit and your engine starts emitting thick black smoke, you then start to dive and loose engine power, end result is Boom into the ground.

[Celestial1]

This is kind of already in game, well in a way. If you fly around on a full kashan training server you will easily notice this with the amount of tunguskas after you. You get hit and your engine starts emitting thick black smoke, you then start to dive and loose engine power, end result is Boom into the ground.

I have never witnessed this. If it's anything like the helicopter situation, though, it needs to be upped like the helicopters recently were so it's more 'frequent' of an occurance rather than AA missles creating an outright destruction of the plane every time.

[badmojo420]

Here's an example of the current system, look at 9:45...

[SkaterCrush]

Jets pilots (as I know, don't quote me on this) usually eject BEFORE the missile hits them, not after

[wookimonsta]

i have also never seen this effect, and ive seen a lot of aircraft shot down.

maybe they will up the hp of the aircraft and the disabling effect will be seen.

[Celestial1]

Here's an example of the current system, look at 9:45... [Insert Video Here]

Oh. Yeah, I know that thing. But in that case you would still be able to fly about, and gives a false sense of security.

The disabling of the vehicle allows the pilot to really know 'time to panic' and gives them the cue to bail out (if you take a hit from AA missiles, you're not likely to keep flying.

Jets pilots (as I know, don't quote me on this) usually eject BEFORE the missile hits them, not after

Under best conditions, yes. When it's not detected, or isn't realized until it is too late, then they have the chance to eject. A jet is slower than a guided missile in flight, and the pilot isn't likely on their own to spot a meter-long missile moving at an excess of a kilometer a second if the missle is fired straight at an incoming jet, with the speeds combining.


YouTube - fighter gets hit by missile

YouTube - MIM-104A Patriot missile hits

Two examples (they aren't from dogfights or the like, but they still help to prove my point). In the first video, you should know that the 'missile' that hit the plane was actually a training munition filled with concrete, apparently. As you'll see, the plane goes out of control and eventually bursts into flames. You'll notice his bailouts starting approximately 1 minute into the video, and he parachutes out.

In the second video, it is showing test-firing of the Patriot missles... Now, there doesn't appear to be anyone in these jets, but you'll notice on many of them that the cockpit is often not engulfed in flames, and the jet doesn't always spin out of control or anything wild due to the patriot penetrating the engine (which is directly in the center of the plane, meaning that no unbalancing really occurs unlike when a wing is hit).

[Cheditor]

Celstial i dont think you know the effect. Your plane ends up loosing power and you have to bail or you splat against the ground.

[Celestial1]

Celstial i dont think you know the effect. Your plane ends up loosing power and you have to bail or you splat against the ground.

In regards to the effect shown in the video mojo posted, I have seen it.


But I for one have NEVER seen that effect you describe happen in a game. Again, if it's the same issue the helicopter has, then it may need the HP/Damage/Disabling point changed just as the helicopters were for v0.85. It certainly doesn't usually do this for anti-air missles.

[badmojo420]

Oh. Yeah, I know that thing. But in that case you would still be able to fly about.

The disabling of the vehicle allows the pilot to really know 'time to panic' and gives them the cue to bail out.

The pilot in the video didn't do much flying. If you'll notice, he falls for about 100m before the jet exploded. He had a good amount of time after taking the hit to eject. But, i fear a lot of pilots don't eject in the off chance that all the alarms and red lights going off in the cockpit are wrong and the jet is still flyable. In that post that got lost, i mentioned how this effect should be made longer so the jet will lose power but not blow up so fast. And maybe those light hits where the jet is still flyable could induce a long bleed out giving you enough time to land and repair. But, not letting you keep flying around like nothing happened while smoke is streaming out of your engine.

[Celestial1]

The pilot in the video didn't do much flying. If you'll notice, he falls for about 100m before the jet exploded. He had a good amount of time after taking the hit to eject. But, i fear a lot of pilots don't eject in the off chance that all the alarms and red lights going off in the cockpit are wrong and the jet is still flyable. In that post that got lost, i mentioned how this effect should be made longer so the jet will lose power but not blow up so fast. And maybe those light hits where the jet is still flyable could induce a long bleed out giving you enough time to land and repair. But, not letting you keep flying around like nothing happened while smoke is streaming out of your engine.

He 'dives' for about 100m, but then abruptly rolls right and pulls up hard to make a turn before exploding. Nothing more than the pilot not making an attempt to get out of the way any sooner, and not knowing he was close to death. With all the screaming sirens of the cockpit, and the adrenaline of actually having been hit, it's wasn't even likely for most pilots in that instance to actually bail out even with critical damage sirens blaring.

The idea is that the jet would lose ALL power, as helicopters do now, and would simply freefall for a short time before exploding. He wouldn't keep flying straight, and he couldn't pull up very well at all; he would be ever-closer to a nosedive, until the plane ignites and explodes.

I for one have not seen an instance at ALL as of v0.85 where an AA missle hit but did not kill a jet. Changes have been made of course, and in all honesty I have forgotten much of the v0.8 mechanics of this, but I still don't believe I've seen it since a rendition of PR as of v0.8 or more recent. The last time I remember that kind of instance happening would have to be around .6 or .7, but since I have not seen much of anything in regards to 'critical damage' let alone the plane becoming disabled.

[SkaterCrush]

He 'dives' for about 100m, but then abruptly rolls right and pulls up hard to make a turn before exploding. Nothing more than the pilot not making an attempt to get out of the way any sooner, and not knowing he was close to death. With all the screaming sirens of the cockpit, and the adrenaline of actually having been hit, it's wasn't even likely for most pilots in that instance to actually bail out even with critical damage sirens blaring.

The idea is that the jet would lose ALL power, as helicopters do now, and would simply freefall for a short time before exploding. He wouldn't keep flying straight, and he couldn't pull up very well at all; he would be ever-closer to a nosedive, until the plane ignites and explodes.

I for one have not seen an instance at ALL as of v0.85 where an AA missle hit but did not kill a jet. Changes have been made of course, and in all honesty I have forgotten much of the v0.8 mechanics of this, but I still don't believe I've seen it since a rendition of PR as of v0.8 or more recent. The last time I remember that kind of instance happening would have to be around .6 or .7, but since I have not seen much of anything in regards to 'critical damage' let alone the plane becoming disabled.

1. I'm pretty sure a nosedive would extinguish the flames
2. You don't see that because AA units are OP and they just shoot you with their missiles
3. I am out of this thread...I hope I made my point

[Celestial1]

1. I'm pretty sure a nosedive would extinguish the flames
2. You don't see that because AA units are OP and they just shoot you with their missiles
3. I am out of this thread...I hope I made my point

1. You don't understand how fire works. Let alone how fire works when it is burning off of jet fuel. Go watch the first example video again where the jet is falling out of the sky. Those flames look pretty burn-tastic to me even when it's dropping at an outrageous speed.
2. Wait, what? What are you talking about? AA units are OP? Do you mean that the AA missles do too much damage? If that's what you mean, you obviously have not read my posts well, or just don't have enough knowledge to things like the helicopter fix to grasp what I am talking about. The fix to make the jets 'disable' would be to make them have more "Health" so that the missles would do 'less' damage, but the disabling effect would happen even with that 'little' bit of damage so that they get disabled but still have health left over to let the jet burn for a while longer.

[badmojo420]

The helicopter damage system doesn't 'lose all power' as you imply. It acts exactly like the jet damage system does in that video. You lose power, but control is maintained. Of course in a helicopter, when you cut the power to the main rotor it's pretty difficult to control, but as I like to fly very low when i pilot, i know from expirience that when you hit critical damage you can still control your descent. There are other times where you lose your tail rotor and start to really lose control, but i've not seen that since the patch and when i did see it before the patch it was random and kind of wierd because you could maintain control of the aircraft while bouncing up and down and shaking like crazy. That happened in local games a lot, but in online matcher very rarely.

I hope i'm wrong but i'd guess losing steering would be hardcoded.

[Celestial1]

The helicopter damage system doesn't 'lose all power' as you imply. It acts exactly like the jet damage system does in that video. You lose power, but control is maintained. Of course in a helicopter, when you cut the power to the main rotor it's pretty difficult to control, but as I like to fly very low when i pilot, i know from expirience that when you hit critical damage you can still control your descent. There are other times where you lose your tail rotor and start to really lose control, but i've not seen that since the patch and when i did see it before the patch it was random and kind of wierd because you could maintain control of the aircraft while bouncing up and down and shaking like crazy. That happened in local games a lot, but in online matcher very rarely.

I hope i'm wrong but i'd guess losing steering would be hardcoded.

I don't know, maybe I have never truly experienced being hit this way, but I remember far, far too many times when I began (key word: began) performing a full-loop in a jet after being hit by an AA missle, maintaining speed. Not to mention other manuevers being pulled at the last moment. I do not ever once remember losing control or speed.

If that is really the case, then the plane would need to lose literally all of it's speed extremely quickly. This would cause the plane to dip and begin falling (ie when a pilot hops out of the jet, it almost makes a dead stop in the air and begins falling; that kind of loss of speed more or less would be the objective here.)

[badmojo420]

But that wouldn't really be realistic, something as small as a jet would surly glide for a little bit after going so fast.

[Celestial1]

But that wouldn't really be realistic, something as small as a jet would surly glide for a little bit after going so fast.

Well, when a large explosion occurs in the back end of a plane and possibly affects steady flight (like a wing being torn off) it's likely to go up in flames and begin flailing through the air (instead of simply gliding off in flames).


Anomalies aside, of course it's not perfectly realistic to have it do something like that, but if nothing else, it would represent the kind of freefall that a plane goes through after being hit. If the same thing could be done but with a higher speed, that would be absolutely great. If not, I would very much settle for the slightly unrealistic bit of the hugely reduced speed, because when a jet is hit the engine is disabled, so it would lose a lot of speed, relatively fast (again, not as fast, but it would slow down quickly).