Attack Helos Discussion

[Hunt3r]

The suggestion threads are just for ideas.

This thread should be used to discuss anything in PR regarding attack helos.


So who personally thinks that the Apache is the single best attack helo in the game? It has 1k rounds of 30 mike-mike, which basically means that you can pound away at infantry for up to 20 minutes in the game without worrying about ammo.

The Hellfires are still extremely hard to shoot accurately though. A hit close to any armored target should be enough to take it out.

Simply put, the Apache is the best helo to me in the game. But on armor heavy maps the Mi-28 means that you can spam away.

Anyhow, I'd also like to know if it's possible to have an ATGM lockon system that works like this:

1. See target.
2. Right click, box immediately appears.
3. After 1-2 seconds, you lock.
4. Fire, and keep your lock.
5. Missile flies into target and destroys it.

In the case of the Apache, the lock-on box appears on all targets in your camera, right click to lock up a target, keep lock, fire, and fly off while the missile destroys the target.

Would these two systems be feasible without having the funky system where your missile can fly completely off from what you were aiming at?

Also, feel free to put tips and tricks for using the ATGMs here.

[Nimise]

The Havok is without a doubt the best chopper. The pilot has a good view and having 15 missiles and 300 cannon is a lot better than 8 missiles and 1000 cannon. The Havok is also a lot easier to get steady and I think the gunner has a better down angle.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

All the attack choppers defeinetly need the FLIR thermal imaging that Combined Arms has in their choppers.

It makes identifying enemy vehicles much faster for the chopper, but it's also difficult to determine exactly if they're friend or foe, so the pilot needs to still have a good eye and good reflexes.

[LUKE_NUKE_EM]

All the attack choppers defeinetly need the FLIR thermal imaging that Combined Arms has in their choppers.

It makes identifying enemy vehicles much faster for the chopper, but it's also difficult to determine exactly if they're friend or foe, so the pilot needs to still have a good eye and good reflexes.

Well if you wanted to go into realism of that degree, you might as well factor in that in real life, no klaxons sound when you are being painted by an SA7, seeing that they are thermal guided. So you would have to have ultra reflexes.

[Hunt3r]

Well if you wanted to go into realism of that degree, you might as well factor in that in real life, no klaxons sound when you are being painted by an SA7, seeing that they are thermal guided. So you would have to have ultra reflexes.

Well if we had enough flares (128 flares?), firing off in volleys of 3 off each side, then turning off lock for all thermal based tracking weapons would be fine.

[Hietaa]

Havok is the best one without a doubt. It has 16 hellfires and 300 cannon rounds and it can shoot almost vertically down unlike Apache or Cobra.

[PepsiMachine]

I actually like the Cobra. It feels more nimble to me. Get in, flare spam, dive, rocket spam, and get out. Rinse, repeat.

[Alex6714]

Well if you wanted to go into realism of that degree, you might as well factor in that in real life, no klaxons sound when you are being painted by an SA7, seeing that they are thermal guided. So you would have to have ultra reflexes.

Actually you will find that most helicopter will have a system which will detect them at or shortly after launch and even automatically dispense flares.

[Hunt3r]

Havok is the best one without a doubt. It has 16 hellfires and 300 cannon rounds and it can shoot almost vertically down unlike Apache or Cobra.

But without a doubt, it has far less loiter time once you take out all the tanks. The Cobra is a CAS first, the main weapons are the rockets and 20mm.

The Apache is somewhat like a beefed up Cobra. The main role is taking out APCs and infantry in this game, but in reality it's supposed to be a dedicated tank killer.

And the Mi-28's ATGMs are basically supposed to take two rockets to take out an MBT, 1 for any other target. For the M1A2 I'm guessing it takes 3.

[DankE_SPB]

Actually you will find that most helicopter will have a system which will detect them at or shortly after launch and even automatically dispense flares.

can you give a link to such thing, want to read about it, cheers

And the Mi-28's ATGMs are basically supposed to take two rockets to take out an MBT, 1 for any other target. For the M1A2 I'm guessing it takes 3.

cant say i'm very experienced pilot\gunner but direct hit is insta death for all tanks by all ATGMs

[Rudd]

2. Right click, box immediately appears.

lasers have a max speed because they bounce off stuff if they are made faster

[Alex6714]

can you give a link to such thing, want to read about it, cheers

cant say i'm very experienced pilot\gunner but direct hit is insta death for all tanks by all ATGMs

Here is an example of one.

http://www.selex-sas.com/EN/Common/files/SelexSAS_UK/pdf_datasheet/ew/HIDAS_.pdf

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/businet/defence/defelec/Produkte/air/sensors/MILDS/MILDS.html


I think systems vary but most of these will detect the missile trail/heat or the launch of the missile, flash etc which is why sometimes you can get false warnings.

Explained nicely in the Apache book.

Though it depends on the helicopter, all of the ones in PR I can see having such systems but the ka-50 iirc only has a laser warning receiver, or some models, and not the ability to detect ir missiles, though I wouldn´t be surprised if they get updated with newer defense systems.

[DankE_SPB]

Though it depends on the helicopter, all of the ones in PR I can see having such systems but the ka-50 iirc only has a laser warning receiver, or some models, and not the ability to detect ir missiles, though I wouldn´t be surprised if they get updated with newer defense systems.

thx for links
never heard even about laser warning, our helis usually have IR jammer ontop of it( small bulb on tail bulk), chaffs\flares ofc, i also seen EW wingtips for Ka-52 Mi-28, thats all

[NT78stonewobble]

I think that if attack helicopters were fully simulated in the mod there would be no reason to have tanks in it. They wouldn't survive very long.

Wouldn't a single apache longbow be able to cover the entire map (realistic ranges) with its radar and engage them from it's helipad allmost?

BTW. nice links to the missile warning systems. I thought these were only base upon radar detection and so on... I guess you learn something new everyday.


Also is the Havok actually in service anywhere today? I'm not really up to date with that.

[Cp]

And the Mi-28's ATGMs are basically supposed to take two rockets to take out an MBT, 1 for any other target. For the M1A2 I'm guessing it takes 3.

Do you have any sources to back this up?

Also is the Havok actually in service anywhere today? I'm not really up to date with that.

The Russians are operating the Mi-28N which is an upgraded 'A' sporting a FLIR and the ability to mount a radar on the rotor mast.

I'm assuming the MEC in PR are using the Mi-28A




Sort of offtopic, Whats up with the fortyleven threads about helicopters (mostly the apache and hellfires) lately?

[Hunt3r]

Do you have any sources to back this up?



The Russians are operating the Mi-28N which is an upgraded 'A' sporting a FLIR and the ability to mount a radar on the rotor mast.

I'm assuming the MEC in PR are using the Mi-28A




Sort of offtopic, Whats up with the fortyleven threads about helicopters (mostly the apache and hellfires) lately?

Well I had one thread in the suggestion, and I set up one here to keep the suggestion forum clean(kind of).

But if you fully simulated the Apache, yes, all you would have to do is go up about 50 meters and start searching with your radar, but it would take you about 5 minutes to start.

Mind you, radar doesn't go through obstacles.

And in theory the Mi-28 should take 2-3 shots to take out MBTs, mainly because the ATGMs are meant to take out softer targets (APCs, IFVs)

I sure wish that it would be possible to fully simulate an AH-64A or something of the sort in PR2...

But then only flyboys would even have the determination to learn them.

And rudd, would it be possible to hide heat sources and only show them if you right click on them?

[CAS_117]

can you give a link to such thing, want to read about it, cheers

cant say i'm very experienced pilot\gunner but direct hit is insta death for all tanks by all ATGMs

DIRCM doin it for the lulz...

[DankE_SPB]

And in theory the Mi-28 should take 2-3 shots to take out MBTs, mainly because the ATGMs are meant to take out softer targets (APCs, IFVs)

if 900mm penetration is meant for APCs then i dont know what is hard target
Vikhr (AT-9)
Ataka-V 9M120 (AT-16)
weg2001 mentions a bit different info

ATGM, AT-6/SHTURM:
Guidance: SACLOS RF
Range: 5,000-7,000 m (variant dependant)
Warhead: Tandem HEAT
Penetration: 700-950 mm (variant dependant)
ATGM, AT-9/ATAKA:
Guidance: SACLOS RF
Range: 6,000 m
Warhead: Tandem HEAT
Penetration: 1,000 mm

official KBP site removed info about Vikhr for some reason, the only thing left is Hermes-A
KBP. HERMES-A Guided Weapon System

vids here
DIRCM doin it for the lulz...

yeah, i knew about IR jammers, but not about systems which detects missile launch(well, i heard about them, but they are detecting ICBM launches , not SAMs)

[NT78stonewobble]

So is the ka-50 two seated now?

One of the original critiques was that a single seat heavy attack helicopter would be unfeasible due to too high a workload for one person.

[Zrix]

KA-50 - Single-Seat
KA-52 - Two-Seater