Another newbies first post and a few gaming observations...

[NT78stonewobble]

Hi guys/girls. I recently reinstalled BF2 after a long break when I discovered the new 1.5 patch was out. Then I saw this mod on moddb and decided to try it out.

While waiting, waiting and waiting for the downloading of patches and mod to finish I read the manual and the linked text to army tactics. After waiting some more while installing I jumped right into a training server and crashed the huey 117 times...

Apparently that chopper is quite temperamental to the ordinary BF2 black hawk... That was one of the first of many shocks in discovering this entirely new game.

First of all I wanna say that the maps are amazing for the BF2 engine (unreal 2.x?) and I love the realism of the game.

I've only played 2 days so far with one 13 hour stretch the second day/evening/night but damn this game is HARD...

Now sadly I don't have any headset so I have to rely communicative team\squad members and those are hard to find. Thus I usually start each map with the following announcement "No VOIP rifleman will dig and follow orders for VOIP squad leader".

The best parts of the mod is when the teamwork shines through and a squad acts intelligently. Having a spotter when youre on a machine gun or setting up a FOB in no time with the entire squad working together.

Sadly this is also kind of the biggest downfall for the mod... Or rather not the mod but some of the people playing it.

I have no real army experience or that much experience in the game but cringe when I see several squads attacking the same objective from the same direction over and over again. Or when infantry squads don't set up FOB's, squads cut in half due to APC drivers and squads that are locked with 2 or 3 members only...

Which brings me to another critique. The mod needs some infantry tactics traning maps. With big huge signs that teaches the roles and formations. Before you all tell me that there are training maps allready: I went on them and tried to practice just basic infantry stuff and I got bombed by planes, rocketed by choppers, shelled by tanks and shot by APC's before being able to do anything.

I tried for 10 mins. That one other newbie I tried to practice with gave up after 5...


Arf, this became quite a long post. Anyways, it's a great mod and I hope we'll meet for some great, fun and tense games.

[NKN]78stonewobble

PS. Send money for headset...

PPS. If you have a headset. Turn it UP... I have to have soundeffects set to lvl 30 and voice to 100 to hear 8 outt 10 guys trying to voice communicate.

[Rudd]

The mod needs some infantry tactics traning maps. With big huge signs that teaches the roles and formations. Before you all tell me that there are training maps allready: I went on them and tried to practice just basic infantry stuff and I got bombed by planes, rocketed by choppers, shelled by tanks and shot by APC's before being able to do anything.

you are right, however there is a problem that if there is a training map for infantry with low spawntimes etc, people might play that instead of the actual game.

Though there is at least 1 training map around here being made.

Welcome to the mod and forums see ya ingame, though I fully recommend a headset, makes the game more fun by far.

BUT! here's a PRO TIP-

Go in to your BF2 options, turn Sound effects volume to 30-50%

Then turn your computer's master volume up. This will make people's VOIP way louder.

[Jevski]

BF2PR - Det danske samlingssted for BF2 Project Reality

Kig her....

[NT78stonewobble]

Hi Jevski Thanks for the link. I'll drop by and check it out.

[Spearhead]

Hi NT78stonewobble (I hope your in-game nick is easier to speak in a hurry ),

thank you for your feedback. I hope you keep enjoying the mod for a long time. As for your comments:

Fellow DEV dbzao one said: "We can mod the game, not the players" and thus we don't have that much influence over how the mod is played. Of course we can give players incentives to behave realistically (e.g. long spawn times make them value their lives more and suppression effects make them avoid open gunfights).

Sadly we can not force any behavior (especially not intelligent behavior) on the players. Leading a squad is quite a challenging task in PR and not everyone is competent in all aspects involved. Finding (or becoming) a squad leader who can keep his men together, organized and informed and make good tactical decisions in an ever-changing environment where plans really only last until the first bullet is fired (in most cases) is quite hard.

Since we can not create good leaders out of thin air, we could only work on their training (as you pointed out). I do not think that training maps are the thing that will solve all those problems. It might make sense for clan training to have some small maps to train certain common scenarios in a controlled and accessible environment. This can only work if everyone on the server is taking part in the exercise and thus it can not be transfered to public gaming servers. (Especially the training servers are mainly for getting to terms with the hardware of PR)

When it comes to training soldiers and leaders to rise up to the new challenges in PR I guess we could only improve the status quo by having people host special training events in which anyone could participate (but on passworded servers to make sure no one joins that is not aware of the purpose of the exercises and their procedures). If any clan would be interested in providing the logistics and some personnel for such events I estimate that the DEV team would endorse it and advertise the date and time of such sessions.

(P.S: Sorry for the lengthy post)

[gomimin]

When it comes to training soldiers and leaders to rise up to the new challenges in PR I guess we could only improve the status quo by having people host special training events in which anyone could participate (but on passworded servers to make sure no one joins that is not aware of the purpose of the exercises and their procedures). If any clan would be interested in providing the logistics and some personnel for such events I estimate that the DEV team would endorse it and advertise the date and time of such sessions.

Prolly the big challenge is the personel one, finding some patient instructors isn't that easy.

There are already Courses in the making, organized by [R-COM]cyberzomby:

Event Sign Ups - Project Reality Forums

[fuzzhead]

welcome to the community

yea, training maps are something that definitely need improving, actually I really like your suggestion of giant billboards with printed instructions on them about squad formations, drills, etc.

gives me an idea for an eventual training map to include all these elements in an infantry only section that cannot be touch by all the flyboys...

hope you have much more fun in PR and continue to learn more tactics! once you get a headset start leading some squads you will see the game has ALOT of replayability and diversiveness! dont be afraid to post some AARs in the tales from the front or even videos using xfire

[flem615]

PPS. If you have a headset. Turn it UP... I have to have soundeffects set to lvl 30 and voice to 100 to hear 8 outt 10 guys trying to voice communicate.

YES! its not just me. i have this problem all the time. half the squads VOIP is so low i cant hear anything but distant mumbling. TURN YOUR VOIP UP!!!

anyways welcome to project reality and i hope we run into each other on the battlefield

[Jedimushroom]

If everyone sounds quiet on VOIP to you it's probably you that needs to adjust your settings. Try turning music and effects sounds down very low and keeping voice over at a high level.

[Bringerof_D]

the training servers have served one purpose for us thus far really well besides teaching one how to use assets. it has been quite the filter for idiots that play the mod. most of the vBF2 players who still just play for the firepower, and the ones that just play to blow stuff up including team mates have since been lurking around training servers instead of public servers. its made life a bit easier for the rest of us.

[Deer]

Well basicly all "proffesional teamwork" what "players" can do, is to stay together and do what leader tells em to do. All sort of infantry tactics and such are not doable for "players" they are only doable for "soldiers", and sometimes ppl mix these 2 terms. Thats why i think complicated tactics should be possible, but not required in order to make gameplay to work.

As first post mentioned, players are being split up ingame atm and thats the only issue when it comes to ("too many noobs ingame" "too many vanilla bf2 idiots ingame" "not enough squad leaders in game" "players aint doing teamwork" "70% of squads are 2-3man locked squads") This issue occured when we removed squad leaderspawn and didnt replace it with equally easy way to stay together even for large squads formed from nonproffesional players.

If squad would ----automaticly---- stay together except when enemy is too close to them, i think gameplay/teamwork would be super much better. When its not easy enough for ----everyone---- to keep their squad together, result is what it is atm in game like OP mentioned.

Instead of training thousands of players to proffesionals / or making them to quit the game, i think it would be much more easier and faster option to make every squad stay together automaticly regardless of their skill / retardness level. Either way i think these 3 options are our only options to make the teamwork work once again =P (well its not totaly broke, but it really should be improved)

[Hunt3r]

the training servers have served one purpose for us thus far really well besides teaching one how to use assets. it has been quite the filter for idiots that play the mod. most of the vBF2 players who still just play for the firepower, and the ones that just play to blow stuff up including team mates have since been lurking around training servers instead of public servers. its made life a bit easier for the rest of us.

I usually spend almost all of my time on a training server practicing how to fly a helo.

For me, the rule is to always train more then you actually play.

[NT78stonewobble]

I usually spend almost all of my time on a training server practicing how to fly a helo.

For me, the rule is to always train more then you actually play.

Yeah you're right. I did practice a bit of transport helo on a training server but I only once dared to take a chopper in a real game. I did manage to put people down but crashed on the way back trying to stick (too) low... So I promise I won't do that again untill I've trained way more.

I did however have a good time in a squad with a good communicative squad leader where we ended up taking an APC to the outside of an enemy stronghold that we had been trying to get into on foot. We kept our distance and kept the entire flank of the enemy pinned. I racked up 10+ kills in a matter of minutes. Sadly we lost by ten tickets to the entire team but they were getting scared as we could tell by their frantic public text messages

It did however hammer home how much an disadvantage not having voip was. I was gunner and the team did great at relaying targets to me but I couldn't confirm that I was tageting them or taking them out. Simply didnt have the time to text it out.

At the one opening there was, I could spot it with the better view and zoom of the turret. I wanted the driver to rush in drop the rest of the squad off and drive back to cover them. Before I had typed out that plan the enemies were back.


@ The guy who suggested turning sound effects and music down while keeping voice at 100 volume. I actually have music set to 20, soundeffects was at the same level but I hardly heard shots wizzing me by there so It's now set at 30. Voice is still 100 and around half the people with VOIP are barely audible. Thank you for the reply though...


@ others: Wow, didnt expect so many replies. I can see that you developers DO notice the teamwork issues and I can see that you have put a great deal of thought into it.

I don't think there is any golden solution. It IS a game and we don't have fear of death as a motivator for people to work together (nor would I like to try that voluntarily )

It will probably take a bit of trial and error to see what works best.



I think I saw a guy suggest a bit of AI for a base AA and it got me thinking a bit. Imagine a turret AI that would not be as good as a decent player (perhaps less range detection and poorer aim). Give the option that if the turret gets manned by a person it offcourse overrides the turret AI and he has full control. This way a base would not be utterly undefended and free up players for the more "exciting" tasks.

Now I don't know if that is in any way possible or if it would requite taking player slots (because then were back at square one) and it would be a question of simulated realism and realism.

Anyways it was just something I thought off in a late hour so take from that what you will.

NT78stonewobble

PS. Looking into getting a headset right now. The only thing I can see around in the local shops are the steel series headsets. Hows the quality of the cheaper ones? ( cheap = I have to download mods instead of buying new games allready lol )

[N.Kuntze]

The quality of the cheaper ones is bad.
The Sennheiser PC 151 is a good Headset.
It costs about 50€ and has good speakers and microphone built in.
You can also take a Zalman microphone for 6€. (It's only a microphone)

[fuzzhead]

Tip for headphones: You get what you pay for.

Save up and buy a good one, cheap out and you will feel sorry when a month later everything is crackling or cutting out.

For now, if your completely broke but you must have voip, just buy a cheap microphone, and tape it to your current headphones or (if not avaliable) wear a baseball cap and tape it to that.

You can get a single microphone for as cheap as 1 dollar and it does the trick. Sound quality wont be amazing but it can be enough so your understandable.

[Spearhead]

I agree there. Also when using push-to-talk you can use a directional microphone that you put near the screen. That's my setup. With a decent quality one it even works for skype without significant bleeding of loudspeaker sounds into the mike.

[NT78stonewobble]

Thanks for all the tips... ... I was looking at the pricerange around the "SteelSeries 4H" or the mentioned "Sennheiser PC 151"...

I don't have alot of money but I don't wanna make the mistake of going too cheap either... With my luck that allways comes back and bite me in the rear...

On the other side im not an audiophile so I'm not interested in paying twice the money for 10 percent extra quality or something like that.

I'll probably wait a bit and see if there comes and offer up in one of the local stores.