Assult Grenade launcher sights

Butmonkey · Post by **Butmonkey** » 2006-06-04 23:03

Can we have some sights for this, or even just a center mark. I find it rather hard to aim it sometimes and other times it can be about 20-30* from were I was expecting it.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-06-04 23:07

With the lack of 3d sights presented by the BF2 engine, I think it would be impossible to make leaf sights that actually serve a purpose. You would not be able to use them to actually aim your grenade launcher. I guess it would look better than the current yellow crosshair, though.

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-06-04 23:07

M203s are hard to aim Project Reality trys to account for this. My best advice is to pratice and rember PR 203's greandes don't explode on contact if the grenade is too close to you it will bounce.

0mikr0n · Post by **0mikr0n** » 2006-06-04 23:08

I'm sure the model can be tweaked a bit... at least make it center more when you're zooming.

Butmonkey · Post by **Butmonkey** » 2006-06-04 23:11

I wouldnt mind something like the old DC 2d sights, just something to giv me a center line so I can aim up it.

six7 · Post by **six7** » 2006-06-04 23:13

What would work would be to have the yellow lines each marked for the distance necessary. ex- line 1 is 10m, line 2 is 25, line 3 is 50, line 4 is 75, line 5 is 100. Then all you would have to do is estimate the distance of an enemy, and aim w/ the proppor marked line. I wish BF2 supported 3d sights so that we could have a calibrated leaf sight that would be aimed in a similar way, but--I think that is impossible....

trogdor1289 · Post by **trogdor1289** » 2006-06-04 23:16

Everyday I find a new way to hate the BF2 engine.

Butmonkey · Post by **Butmonkey** » 2006-06-04 23:19

Oh wait, Ther is something to aim with. Opps. I think i know the problem.

I wanted a touch of realism to BF2 So I made my X-hair 100% transparent, and same with my hud. I think this preference has been shifted over to PR too.

ops: hehe opps

EDIT: Hehe SO the vanila BF2 sight when zoomed is there. You see I never knew about that since my Xhair was at 100% transparency. I also never knew the zoom on the mounted guns gave an Xhair neither. I always wondered about the whole zooming on mounted guns.

twisted · Post by **twisted** » 2006-06-05 01:40

the nade launcher sometimes seems to have too much deviation at times. lower this to make assualt a more attractive choice. and yes, a more relaible way of aiming with sights would be good. at the moment i find it more reliable to shoot m203 nades from hip and walk them to target. by the way 2or 3 more m203 nades or the china/mec versions would be welcome.

Szarko · Post by **Szarko** » 2006-06-05 01:44

Butmonkey wrote:Oh wait, Ther is something to aim with. Opps. I think i know the problem.

I wanted a touch of realism to BF2 So I made my X-hair 100% transparent, and same with my hud. I think this preference has been shifted over to PR too. ops: hehe opps

EDIT: Hehe SO the vanila BF2 sight when zoomed is there. You see I never knew about that since my Xhair was at 100% transparency. I also never knew the zoom on the mounted guns gave an Xhair neither. I always wondered about the whole zooming on mounted guns.

Lol, nice one.

Aiming grenade launchers is quite hard in PR, I find it works much better if you stop and wait a bit.

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » 2006-06-05 02:06

I remember being able to hit targets 50 m away if I waited a second or two so they could see me and stop... Tactics and Practice make perfect, not just one or the other.

F.N.G. · Post by **F.N.G.** » 2006-06-05 04:38

If you could just move the current sights lower(instead of center screen) and stretch them out a bit, they would be much more useful. You'd have an aimpoint for further ranges instaed of the newb toob sights that are currently on there. They only promote short range firing.

tophdawg · Post by **tophdawg** » 2006-06-05 15:48

in vbf2 and in pr i never really used the 203s or any gl cause there too nooby also i was wondering in rl if it is hard to aim the 203's?

k r a z u · Post by **k r a z u** » 2006-06-05 15:52

Back to the 3D sights question: I remember a BF1942 mod where they managed to get 3D iron sights in, shouldnt it be possible in BF2 then, too?

[k]MuffinMaster · Post by **[k]MuffinMaster** » 2006-06-05 15:53

Maybe get rid of the launcher completely...

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-06-05 15:53

Another variation of sight adjustments comes into play when we look at grenade launchers and rocket weapons like the M-203 Grenade Launcher, the Mk-19 Grenade Machinegun, and the AT-4 anti-tank rocket. These weapons have a few things in common. Relative to a rifle or machinegun, they have a very limited number of rounds (from a single shot in the M-203 (reloadable), to a single shot in the AT-4 (not reloadable), to 40-round magazines with the Mk-19). Each of their rounds potentially does an enormous amount of damage compared to 'normal' rifle bullets, and the rounds all have a "lob" trajectory that drops steeply as distance increases.

AT-4 (left) and Mk-19 (right) sights. Note how much elevation is required for the Mk-19 to go from shooting at a target 300 meters away to one 900 meters away.

Surprisingly enough, the only recent game I can think of that properly models sight adjustments for these kinds of weapons is the WWII shooter Red Orchestra. In it, the Panzerfaust AT weapon is modeled such that you can aim it for 30, 60, or 80 yards, and the 3d model shifts accordingly to line up the rear leaf sight with the front sight tip. Without having these adjustments, firing the Panzerfaust accurately at the different ranges would be an exercise in (unrealistic) trial-and-error.

Moving on to modern examples, here we see a typical representation of an M-203 leaf sight (distinctly different from the M-203 quadrant sight, which I don't recall ever seeing modeled in any game). This particular one is from the LSR Operation Flashpoint weapon pack/addon.

With the way the sight is represented there, the actual functionality of the sight is completely absent. You can see that there are range markings, but - as I'm sure many people have wondered upon seeing such models - how the hell are you supposed to use it? In short, while visually that is how the leaf sight looks, functionally the leaf sight by itself, without the front sight to adjust with, is completely useless.

Here are two shots of an M-203 leaf sight from the ISMT I ran at the end of my enlistment in the USMC. I took these shots specifically to illustrate what's wrong with said sights in modern games, as it has and continues to frustrate me to no end to see the sights modeled incorrectly.

The M-203's leaf sight is graduated in 50-meter increments, with the 100 and 200 meter ones marked. To aim it, you place the front sight tip centered in the leaf sight, with the tip aligned with the range you're aiming for. Using this method properly, one can achieve great first-shot accuracy on a point target at 150 meters, or an area-target (like a fireteam) at 350 meters (per the Army publication on the M-203, FM 3-22.31, which you can download here if you'd like to read about employing the real weapon) . This is a far cry from the "fire and adjust" method currently required in OFP and other games that model the M-203.

To close on this particular topic, I'll emphasize the fact that any weapon that has a "lob" trajectory (meaning that it isn't as "flat" as a rifle bullet trajectory would be) benefits enormously from having sight adjustments possible, to the extent that not having said adjustments severely cripples the implementation of those weapon systems. This applies to all of the above weapons, and doubtlessly many, many more. If you wanted to take it even further, you could conceivably create accurate mortar aiming systems, and even Traversing & Elevating (T&E) tripods for crew-served machineguns, with a solid windage/elevation system as a basis.

found here: http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical2.html#II

If we can do it the way that we can make it so you change the front sight with the leaf bit then we could use it effectivly. If not its frankly like that guy said, useless...

dunno why the images aint showing up... look at the link for the pics aswell.

Malik · Post by **Malik** » 2006-06-05 16:00

Of course 3D iron sights work with the engine, no idea who decide that they're not possible. When you see your player holding the gun, that's 3D isn't it? When you right click, the weapon model is manipulated to move so the sights are centered in the screen, then most of the time a 2D sprite appears over the top for some reason. I guess they thought it looked cooler or something, but either way it's still perfectly possible to have 3D sights. Just because the DEVs haven't done it yet, does not mean it is impossible. It'd be more difficult for the BF2 engine creators to disable 3D sights than to keep them possible, and I know that they cut corners but they didn't block many features and I know the model manipulation wasn't one of them.

[k]MuffinMaster · Post by **[k]MuffinMaster** » 2006-06-05 16:01

The only game that achived that (and is not taken into account by the author of the tactical shooter article) was "Joint Operations"
You could aim via Ironsights and choose the distance with the mousewheel.
Maybe you could mock that?
The "sight" does not change al all, but the range of te grenade does?
You could choose the distance by pressing "+" or "-" ?

Post by **Rhino** » 2006-06-05 16:09

Malik wrote:Of course 3D iron sights work with the engine, no idea who decide that they're not possible. When you see your player holding the gun, that's 3D isn't it? When you right click, the weapon model is manipulated to move so the sights are centered in the screen, then most of the time a 2D sprite appears over the top for some reason. I guess they thought it looked cooler or something, but either way it's still perfectly possible to have 3D sights. Just because the DEVs haven't done it yet, does not mean it is impossible. It'd be more difficult for the BF2 engine creators to disable 3D sights than to keep them possible, and I know that they cut corners but they didn't block many features and I know the model manipulation wasn't one of them.

If you look at my above post, you will see that having a 3D leaf, or 2D will have no diffrence unless you can include the front sight with it. If there is no front site with it, its useless.

There is allready a 2D iron sight for the M203 in the vBF2 files, BUT DiCE did not use it for the post ive done above. The best option they had was to do what they have doen, include a funny crosshair that sort of helps you aim.

tophdawg · Post by **tophdawg** » 2006-06-05 16:13

well how many times do you use the 203 other that clearing out buildings?