Reduce the arming range of the UGL grenade

[TheLean]

The grenadier is an often overlooked kit. It has some drawbacks such as a weak grenade and its difficult to hit targets that are on flat ground if you dont have a height advantage. But the biggest problem is the long range it takes for the grenades to explode instead of dissapearing. This weakens the UGL in urban fighting where you need to fire the grenade more than atleast five times the damaging range of the grenade for it to explode. Heres what im thinking: Most aspects of PR is scaled down to make the battlefield seem bigger than it is. For example, it is really hard to hit soldiers with ironsights at 200 meters. Even if the UGL grenade is set to the same minimum exploding distance ingame as it is IRL, this does not matter when a meter ingame is longer than a real meter. So I suggest we tweak the UGL grenade a bit to make it explode at a somewhat shorter minimum distance. Im not suggesting a massive decrease, somewhere around 20% would be nice. Im not sure about the current arming range but it seems that it is somewhere around 30-40 meters so a 5-6 meters reduction would improve the UGL, and probably make it more common in PR.


After further research I found some evidence that the minimum arming range ingame might be to long compared even to reality. Globalsecurity is a reliable source and they write the following about the grenade launcher:


The main consideration affecting the employment of 40-mm grenades within urban areas is the typically short engagement range. The 40-mm grenade has a minimum arming range of 14 to 28 meters. If the round strikes an object before it is armed, it will not detonate. Both the HE and HEDP rounds have 5-meter burst radii against exposed troops, which means the minimum safe firing range for combat is 31 meters. The 40-mm grenades can be used to suppress the enemy in a building, or inflict casualties by firing through apertures or windows. The MK 19 can use its high rate of fire to concentrate rounds against light structures. This concentrated fire can create extensive damage.The 40-mm HEDP round can penetrate the armor on the flank, rear, and top of Soviet-made BMPs and BTRs. Troops can use the M203 from upper stories to deliver accurate fire against the top decks of armored vehicles. Multiple hits are normally required to achieve a kill

Grenade Launcher

Reading this it seems as the UGL can both be fired at closer ranges than in PR and that they are also somewhat effective against APC´s, or atleast older soviet ones.


*Note that the global security article is about both the 203 and the Mk19 grenade machine gun which have almost identical ammunition.

[Nebsif]

"can be used to suppress the enemy in a building, or inflict casualties by firing through apertures or windows" Try to do that in PR.. The settle time/deviation on the UGL makes it good only in open areas when u have a height advantage (like j00 said), plus IRL grenadiers carry about 2x more grenades.

[Rudd]

The settle time/deviation on the UGL makes it good only in open areas when u have a height advantage (like j00 said

I don't have problems aiming the GL, with a marker its super easy, without a marker you just need a smoke to confirm distance and your sorted.

whatever it is IRL should be it imo.

[TheLean]

(((^^ That will take you between 10-15 seconds before you get effective fire on the enemy. A long time imo. But I didnt start this thread to debate the difficulties in aiming with the grenade launcher, as that is very dependent on training and skill, even though horizontal deviation when settled prohibits hitting windows at distance over 50 meters or so.)))

To move the thread forward it would be nice to know the arming range of the UGL grenade in PR as my gut tells me its bigger than the 14-28 meters quoted.

Also, maybe a military advisor can verify the validity of globalsecuritys claims regarding arming range.

[Nebsif]

I don't have problems aiming the GL, with a marker its super easy, without a marker you just need a smoke to confirm distance and your sorted.

whatever it is IRL should be it imo.

It is easy to aim the UGL, but, it is very very very hard to get a round through a window.
BTW, if I shoot and hit a guy with UGL from like 10 meters, will he get any dmg (ingame)?

[Mj Pain]

Tried ingame.
29m = no explosion
30m = explosion

[Cp]

The UGL is used to launch grenades to where a normal hand grenade cant reach.

It is not designed for twitch shooting at your enemies feet in CQB.


Use hand grenades when the enemy is close enough and use the UGL when you can't reach the enemy with hand grenades.

[Rudd]

Use hand grenades when the enemy is close enough and use the UGL when you can't reach the enemy with hand grenades.

then the Grenadier could use some hand grenades

[goguapsy]

It is easy to aim the UGL, but, it is very very very hard to get a round through a window.
BTW, if I shoot and hit a guy with UGL from like 10 meters, will he get any dmg (ingame)?

Nop. Not hard at all.

Aim a couple of pixels higher (to counter gravity) and there you go.

[Cp]

then the Grenadier could use some hand grenades

I have a much better idea, stick with your squad, someone in your squad is bound to have a grenade.

[Rudd]

imo that is effectively making the grenadier a liability in close range, he has a scope and therfore is less effective, and doesn't have grenades that can engage targets close to him or inside buildings close to him either.

its not like the gradier gets alot of kit ingame anyway.

[BloodBane611]

First of all, I don't think the UGL is hard to use. I do think that they should carry a realistic amount of ammo, but I have no idea what that is, although I think the military advisors can probably answer that.

However, I do agree that the grenadier is basically useless in CQB, adding frags to the kit wouldn't be a killer. I think there's a free space as well, on weapon 6 if I'm not mistaken.

[loki1120]

for the american Grenadier kit (the M203) its 24 HE rounds, but they also can carry smoke, bean bag, buckshot, CS gas.

so maybe 12 HE,
6 smoke (4 white 2 red)
1 beanbag (for those nasty rock throwin civies)
2 buckshot,
3 CS.

give 2 versions, Acog and red Dot.

[Conman51]

for the american Grenadier kit (the M203) its 24 HE rounds, but they also can carry smoke, bean bag, buckshot, CS gas.

so maybe 12 HE,
6 smoke (4 white 2 red)
1 beanbag (for those nasty rock throwin civies)
2 buckshot,
3 CS.

give 2 versions, Acog and red Dot.

probably not going to happen for the reason taht there are not enough weapon slots, but i think that a increase of smoke and frag is fine,

also PR doesnt really have a reason for buckshot in the GL and CS gas and stuff like that

[TheLean]

Yep, more grenades would be nice and realistic, both HE and smoke and perhaps some HEDP. Also the choice to not use scope would benefit the class. A little less deviation when settled would also make it easier to hit that window. I still think the arming range can be lowered somewhat. If its 30 meters thats a big difference from an average of 21 meter arming distance (average between 14-28 meters). A 25 meters arming distance would be enough to improve usefulness while shooting windows across the street and still not make it spammy in CQB.

As it is now, the grenadier is useful in rare circumstances, with the love the LMG has recieved and the marksman will recieve in 0.9 something should really be done to make this kit more attractive. Im not adverse to making the grenadiers rifle have bigger deviation to represent the handling problems with the added weight of an UGL, as long as the changes proposed in this post is implemented.

[Silly_Savage]

Regarding the number of grenades available:

nedlands1;1153460']I reckon the grenadier needs more grenades. According to a study done on the load a soldier carries into battle conducted on a group of 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan, a grenadier carries "24-26 assorted 40mm grenades... worn on [his] fighting load carrier/interceptor body armor" (Source: http://www.me.berkeley.edu/ME239/resour ... Report.pdf, pg 20 or 24). The player in-game currently carries 9 HE rounds and 4 smoke which is around half of that.

Right now in-game

Casualty Radius - 5-6m
Damage ends at 12m.

They're fine. The only alteration the grenadier kit needs is changes to the ammunition loadout like nedlands said.

From this thread.

[Spec]

BTW, if I shoot and hit a guy with UGL from like 10 meters, will he get any dmg (ingame)?

I think it does cause some damage, about as much as a collaborators stone.

[BloodBane611]

I think it does cause some damage, about as much as a collaborators stone.

So only like 6 headshots to kill! Sweet, no problem.

I think Savage has covered all the necessary bases, and proven that the DEVs are already on it.

[Celestial1]

12 HE,
6 smoke (4 white 2 red)
1 beanbag (for those nasty rock throwin civies)
2 buckshot

Can the M203 (and equivalents) fire 40mm grenades and other munitions in the same sitting (as in, you don't have to have it configured to fire a shotgun round?).

I've never seen or heard of them being used. Beanbags for civis would be cool/useful, but not sure if it's really necessary.



Also, grenadier has two open slots. Hand frags and a third munition for the launcher are open.

[Eddie Baker]

Can the M203 (and equivalents) fire 40mm grenades and other munitions in the same sitting (as in, you don't have to have it configured to fire a shotgun round?).

I've never seen or heard of them being used.

Yes, without any modification to the weapon, they can fire 40mm munitions chambered for that launcher, including less lethal. Although how less-lethal is carried and employed would depend on conditions, ROE and unit SOP. Everybody with a GL might get a few of them, or there might be a standalone launcher (like an M79) designated for less lethal use only. It is often the same way with shotguns.

The 40x46mm Low Velocity NATO grenade launchers can fire the M576 Multiple Projectile Round (27 pellets of #4 buckshot). It has been around since the Vietnam conflict, where it was used extensively by US and Australian forces in the M79.