Cobra/Apache enhancements

[nk87]

Couldn't find theese in the Already Suggested thread.


1. PiP(Picture in Picture) for the pilot of the gunners view. If it is possible to change the gunners view from normal look around, to the cannon view, so should it be possible to add same thing to the pilots view by either PiP or a press off a button?

2. View distance., This one is both a question and a suggestion.

Q: How many apaches/cobras have been shot down, and i mean shotdown, destroyd, totaled, not retured to their base, in iraq/afghanistan?

Suggestion: Lets say we put a cobra crew at 2k altitude on Muttrah, it will be completely white and no visual contact to any earth AT ALL. So heres the idea, at the gunners cam ( And the pilots PiP or camswitch?) put a VEHICLE 1km ahead of where he's watching and give that thing a camera, so the vehicle one km closer to the ground can see the ground and send the picture back to the cobra - ofcourse, make this thing invisible and act as a part of the actual optics from the cobra cam it self. And dont shoot me down on the distances mentioned, its just examples of how it could work.


Cobra -----> invisible camera ---> ground

I know this would bring new questions to the game. Overpowered? In a gaming point of view, hell yeah. In a realistic point of view? Not really. AA's been to big a spoiler for too long time if you ask me.

I dont think this is hardcoded, it should be possible. Hope for some clearence.

Edits:

Q: Couldnt this be used as a wallhack?
A: Yes, therefor it should be deactivated when reaching an altitude limit or by a more hands on fix.

[dtacs]

So when you're flying at roughly 700m altitude, the camera would be underground?

Or what about when its safe and you're doing a hydra run, would it be wise for the gunners camera to be underground?

Plus the fact that the pilot could hover behind mountains, and the camera would be zooming through the mountains on the other side (read: mountains on kashan, would be looking at bunkers through the mountain range) meaning that they could pop up and instantly shoot a tank because they knew it was there.

No, appreciate your suggestion but that isn't going to happen.

[Dev1200]

AA is already the bane of cobra, but you need to realize cobra's don't hover at 2k feet and get 1337 kills with the gunner position.

Cobras are used for CAS missions without AA. It's only a medium attack helicopter.. the armor isn't that strong and goes down quickly.


Just get a trusty squad leader to give lases and come in up high, going at a 45 degree angle, hitting the target with hydras, hellfire, and mini's. Then RTB. People who hover in the cobra either 1. Get a lucky kill when the BTR's aren't paying attention 2. Get HAT sniped 3. Get shot down by BTR's for an easy kill. 4. Easy pray for AA

People who use the cobra properly for short and sweet CAS missions:
1. Can get multiple kills depending on lase 2. Cannot get hit by HAT or LAT, Unless EXTREAMLY lucky 3. BTRs have a harder time hitting a target thats moving fast, and is higher up. 4. Harder pray for AA, since your popping flares coming in, while hitting target, and leaving.

[nk87]

So when you're flying at roughly 700m altitude, the camera would be underground?

Or what about when its safe and you're doing a hydra run, would it be wise for the gunners camera to be underground?

Plus the fact that the pilot could hover behind mountains, and the camera would be zooming through the mountains on the other side (read: mountains on kashan, would be looking at bunkers through the mountain range) meaning that they could pop up and instantly shoot a tank because they knew it was there.

No, appreciate your suggestion but that isn't going to happen.

You shot it down too fast, ofcourse it should function as a zoom, and not be able to move through buildings/mountains or other terrain. Its just a way to get the freaking cloud visibility out of the way. But do you think my intention was for it to function as "wallhack"? God grow up!

[nk87]

AA is already the bane of cobra, but you need to realize cobra's don't hover at 2k feet and get 1337 kills with the gunner position.

Cobras are used for CAS missions without AA. It's only a medium attack helicopter.. the armor isn't that strong and goes down quickly.


Just get a trusty squad leader to give lases and come in up high, going at a 45 degree angle, hitting the target with hydras, hellfire, and mini's. Then RTB. People who hover in the cobra either 1. Get a lucky kill when the BTR's aren't paying attention 2. Get HAT sniped 3. Get shot down by BTR's for an easy kill. 4. Easy pray for AA

People who use the cobra properly for short and sweet CAS missions:
1. Can get multiple kills depending on lase 2. Cannot get hit by HAT or LAT, Unless EXTREAMLY lucky 3. BTRs have a harder time hitting a target thats moving fast, and is higher up. 4. Harder pray for AA, since your popping flares coming in, while hitting target, and leaving.

Exactly, thats how it works in PR. The cannon is useless basicly - only way to use it now is blindfire - which is basicly EXACTLY the same as im suggesting here. By having a camera(spotter) putting markers for you and guide your fire in on the target...

Also watch my movies - i know exactly how the cobra works in PR throught the latest patches.

[dtacs]

You shot it down too fast, ofcourse it should function as a zoom, and not be able to move through buildings/mountains or other terrain. Its just a way to get the freaking cloud visibility out of the way. But do you think my intention was for it to function as "wallhack"? God grow up!

No not at all, sorry if thats what came across, just saying that since it was technically 'in front' of the heli itself, it would go through terrain and statics, is my assumption.

And assuming that it couldn't take damage, what if it got stuck behind a building and then the chopper turned 90 degrees? It would be slammed into a building or whatever and god knows what would happen then.

[nk87]

No not at all, sorry if thats what came across, just saying that since it was technically 'in front' of the heli itself, it would go through terrain and statics, is my assumption.

And assuming that it couldn't take damage, what if it got stuck behind a building and then the chopper turned 90 degrees? It would be slammed into a building or whatever and god knows what would happen then.

It all struck my mind believe me, I was hoping for not too many replies until a coder with some knowledge in this field would come in and give his opinions.

But from a gamers pov I can already give you my personal fix to this problem.

Simply let this "zoom" deactive it self when you go below 800altitude- and only to be reactivated as alt reaches 800+ again.

[TheLean]

Many people that argue about how hard it is to hover and survive etc fail to see that the videos you see on youtube where apaches are hovering while killing a group of previous farmers now armed with AK´s are not the same thing as attacking a small area where conventional forces have access to AA missile launchers and AA artillery. True, the engagement range is longer IRL because of the view distance, but so are the range of AA.

[W4lt3r89]

Invisible camera without hitbox at different ranges.
2-4 Helo's position, 5-7 400m, 8-0 800m. (assuming 0 can be used for weapon slot, since irc that jets have side / top views toggled to 8, 9 (left / right, 0 (top) ) )

Without the hitbox the camera shouldn't make the helo spin 90 degrees or such...
But would it work?

[nk87]

Many people that argue about how hard it is to hover and survive etc fail to see that the videos you see on youtube where apaches are hovering while killing a group of previous farmers now armed with AK´s are not the same thing as attacking a small area where conventional forces have access to AA missile launchers and AA artillery. True, the engagement range is longer IRL because of the view distance, but so are the range of AA.

Yep, and the AA range is already long. Just not the lockon view of it - just as it is in real. Dont think a stinger has the same or better optics than a cobra or apache

[Alex6714]

Stinger has actually less range than a hellfire, in real life.


View distance problem can be solved by upping the view distance (on some maps), giving each weapon a proportional engagement range and making weapons systems work.


But then, some of this has already been done.

[Phantom2]

Stinger has actually less range than a hellfire, in real life.


View distance problem can be solved by upping the view distance (on some maps), giving each weapon a proportional engagement range and making weapons systems work.


But then, some of this has already been done.

That can be a problem if you are stuck in low settings as, you can't look as far due to BF2 Engine seems to perfer people with higher graphics.

[Burton]

That can be a problem if you are stuck in low settings as, you can't look as far due to BF2 Engine seems to perfer people with higher graphics.

But even on low graphics systems, as long as view scale range is at 100 - you'll be able to see just as far as someone all on High

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Listen if this was done and a cobra would actually see from altitude of 2km you would just have a 1337 cobra sq. The whole point of certain restrictions in this game is to make us play as a TEAM and WORK together rather that individuals. If you cant get shot down on Muttrah at all - what MEC suppose to do, just sit there and take it up the *** the entire round ? Or even better lets make a realistic AA lock on distance - you'll be getting shot down on the carrier then. I know there is a plenty of pissed off pilots who get shot down by AA and HAT's but you have to work with your team to neutralize those threats before you go in for an attack. First of all you have no reason to just be hovering at any altitude on Muttrah map and second you have snipers, who can clear out AA's just before a lase on it. You have various units on the ground who's job is to provide you a relatively "cobra safe" environment. One hand suppose to wash the other, otherwise you will be going backwards as far the game play goes and will eventually end up back with vanilla.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Yep, and the AA range is already long. Just not the lockon view of it - just as it is in real. Dont think a stinger has the same or better optics than a cobra or apache

Stinger missile is an extremely effective weapon for shooting down aircraft. The missile uses an infrared seeker to lock on to the heat in the engine's exhaust, and will hit nearly anything flying below 11,000 feet

[nk87]

Listen if this was done and a cobra would actually see from altitude of 2km you would just have a 1337 cobra sq. The whole point of certain restrictions in this game is to make us play as a TEAM and WORK together rather that individuals. If you cant get shot down on Muttrah at all - what MEC suppose to do, just sit there and take it up the *** the entire round ? Or even better lets make a realistic AA lock on distance - you'll be getting shot down on the carrier then. I know there is a plenty of pissed off pilots who get shot down by AA and HAT's but you have to work with your team to neutralize those threats before you go in for an attack. First of all you have no reason to just be hovering at any altitude on Muttrah map and second you have snipers, who can clear out AA's just before a lase on it. You have various units on the ground who's job is to provide you a relatively "cobra safe" environment. One hand suppose to wash the other, otherwise you will be going backwards as far the game play goes and will eventually end up back with vanilla.

The dream you present here, is more unrealistic than mine. And PR will never end up as vanilla. This thing would do the exact opposite of what you present here. It will make the cobra an EFFECTIVE asset. Instead of just a flying 20-ticket bucket of uselessness. This is also why i asked for how many cobras/apaches that have been shot down in real missions.

Dont get me wrong, strafing runs is effective, blindfire can be too. But the gunner part of attack helicopters have decreased into a game of simply aiming your camera at a box(laser) and press a button.

For me an attack helicopter should be a piece of I-win-machinery, as it is intended to be. And if the enemy has brains, like your pointing out that the cobra team should have, then they will hide when they know theres havok coming down their area.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

The dream you present here, is more unrealistic than mine. And PR will never end up as vanilla. This thing would do the exact opposite of what you present here. It will make the cobra an EFFECTIVE asset. Instead of just a flying 20-ticket bucket of uselessness. This is also why i asked for how many cobras/apaches that have been shot down in real missions.

Dont get me wrong, strafing runs is effective, blindfire can be too. But the gunner part of attack helicopters have decreased into a game of simply aiming your camera at a box(laser) and press a button.

For me an attack helicopter should be a piece of I-win-machinery, as it is intended to be. And if the enemy has brains, like your pointing out that the cobra team should have, then they will hide when they know theres havok coming down their area.

All I'm saying is you have to work with your team, if you want to engage enemy on manual you can do so when you have cleared presence on imminent threat to your chopper and you can do so successfully at 600 m. And since there is no reason for you to hover in place you will not get shot by a HAT that easily.

[nk87]

Stinger missile is an extremely effective weapon for shooting down aircraft. The missile uses an infrared seeker to lock on to the heat in the engine's exhaust, and will hit nearly anything flying below 11,000 feet

Have you even played the game? PR doesnt need more anti air supremecy materials, the ranges we can start talking will be out of the hands PR can compute with. This is simply to upp the realistic matter of the game as of possibilities. This wouldnt destroy the game, 11.000 feet anti air missiles would. This would give the gunners a chance, if, they can find a proper pilot, which in it self is a mission. Nothing is or should be fair. Theres a reason ppl dig in and hide IF they see gunships of any kind - or know they're there. Which they wont know much of the time.

[0331SgtSpyUSMC]

Then tell me what are you suppose to do with a cobra up in the air at 2km and there is nothing you can hit it with on MEC side ? I'm not talking about fair, I'm talking game play wise. As I mentioned before restrictions are there to make the game play not to be all out real and to encourage teamwork.

[nk87]

You again took the numbers presented as I said not to shoot me down on. 1km would be fine also, just out of the view range of HAT/AA, even 100 meters more view distance would make an impact. But still, if an AA missile is shot that way, it might hit - so follow tracers, setup AA ambushes near the routes that the cobra might use at lower altitudes. Also, if i remember correctly, the hellfire is 600-700 meters restricted, so when lasers are being thrown, it would have to dive anyway and let the box+1button firing happen.

This can all be done with a spotter and blindfire today, this would just give the cobra gunner some worthy gameplay. Any proper pilot will know, that letting the gunner be the eyes is near suicide, moving or hovering.