Revise or remove the Intel system for insurgency

[snooggums]

The current Intel gathering structure encourages a long period of BluFor sitting back and picking off insurgents to somehow gain knowledge, then a mass rush of OpFor once both caches are discovered as they no longer have an increase in intel. With the increase in kits staying around I think the following changes would greatly improve game play based on intel collection.

Intel collection revision
Increase the time required for an unarmed kit to count as a Collaborator does for ROE to 5 minutes (ie after the kit actually disappears).
Treat Collaborators and the unarmed kit the same for arrests: +10 intel points.
Count Collaborators and unarmed kit the same for kills outside ROE: -10 intel points.

Killing a regular insurgent gives no intel. When an insurgent is shot and drops the kit a BluFor who picks up the kit gets +1 intel. I seem to remember this being in the game at one point. What this would do is encourage clearing a group of insurgents and then checking the bodies for Intel instead of simply shooting them from far away.

If different, set the Intel requirement to 20 per cache, with a 40 Intel max (-20 when a cache is destroyed).

Alternate option
With the same idea as my insurgency skirmish idea, have one cache always showing and only gather Intel on a second cache.

Game play improvements

By linking the Intel to picking up kits and arresting the actual gathering of Intel is represented, BluFor is encouraged to approach and engage the OpFor which would increase opportunities by both sides to lure the enemy out. In addition, less game time would be wasted by having the Insurgents hide and BluFor sit back on hills not doing anything because they get just as much Intel by popping people trying to get a look at them from 800m as they do from getting in close.

The alternate option increases the focus on the caches and a bit away from Intel collection. There is no real reason that a game should stagnate with two hidden caches and all the Insurgents hiding. It may be realistic but it is incredibly boring.

[killonsight95]

i agree but the Blufor will loose to many tickets this way maybe by picking up the kits you get lets say 3 intel or something and just increase the amount of intel needed per cashe the only problem is there are to many insurgents compared to the Blufor it would be great if we could side limit players to like 25 to insurgent and 39 to Blufor thus giving the Blufor one more squad over the insurgents which would be more realistic

[badmojo420]

I dislike the picking up kits to gain intel system. It makes you defenseless while you cycle the kit, and also with the kits staying around for so long now, people would be picking up the same kits over and over, each time resetting the 5min timer.

There is no real reason that a game should stagnate with two hidden caches and all the Insurgents hiding. It may be realistic but it is incredibly boring.

I find this to be one of the biggest advantages of PR over other shooters. Not every second is a firefight, there are times when contact has to be searched for. Times when you think all is quiet and then all of a sudden you drive into an ambush and the whole street comes alive with insurgents hip firing aks, RPGs, grenades, and civies throwing rocks. It's those times of quiet that make the action so much better when it does happen. I can't stand playing games like COD MW2 where your average life lasts about 30s and in that 30s you fired off 3 magazines and killed 2 enemies. Rinse and repeat for the next 3 hrs, it gets old real fast.

[Feriluce]

i agree but the Blufor will loose to many tickets this way maybe by picking up the kits you get lets say 3 intel or something and just increase the amount of intel needed per cashe the only problem is there are to many insurgents compared to the Blufor it would be great if we could side limit players to like 25 to insurgent and 39 to Blufor thus giving the Blufor one more squad over the insurgents which would be more realistic

I'm sure you mean the other way around? If it should be realistic, there would be a lot more insurgents than blufor.

[snooggums]

I dislike the picking up kits to gain intel system. It makes you defenseless while you cycle the kit, and also with the kits staying around for so long now, people would be picking up the same kits over and over, each time resetting the 5min timer.

Oh well, a few insurgent kits get recycled.

I find this to be one of the biggest advantages of PR over other shooters. Not every second is a firefight, there are times when contact has to be searched for. Times when you think all is quiet and then all of a sudden you drive into an ambush and the whole street comes alive with insurgents hip firing aks, RPGs, grenades, and civies throwing rocks. It's those times of quiet that make the action so much better when it does happen. I can't stand playing games like COD MW2 where your average life lasts about 30s and in that 30s you fired off 3 magazines and killed 2 enemies. Rinse and repeat for the next 3 hrs, it gets old real fast.

I like the slow pace too, but the difference between lack of action while moving into position to assault a cache and simply wandering around waiting for the enemy to poke their head up to see what you are doing so you can shoot them and get a magic point of intel is enormous.

BluFor should have some idea where to be moving towards, not just hanging out waiting to shoot someone for looking at them funny.

[Rudd]

The current Intel gathering structure encourages a long period of BluFor sitting back and picking off insurgents to somehow gain knowledge, then a mass rush of OpFor once both caches are discovered as they no longer have an increase in intel. With the increase in kits staying around I think the following changes would greatly improve game play based on intel collection.

I have no problem with this

blufor stay back if they haven't got a good location on a cache because the opfor throw themselves at them

if opfor would stop being so aggressive and actuallly trying to be stealthy etc you'd see alot less defensive tactics from blufor, but as it is blufor win best when they attack hard, pull out fast, hold strong then rinse and repeat.

and I cant really say that is a bad thing

[Meza82]

...Killing a regular insurgent gives no intel. When an insurgent is shot and drops the kit a BluFor who picks up the kit gets +1 intel. I seem to remember this being in the game at one point. What this would do is encourage clearing a group of insurgents and then checking the bodies for Intel instead of simply shooting them from far away...
...By linking the Intel to picking up kits and arresting the actual gathering of Intel is represented, BluFor is encouraged to approach and engage the OpFor which would increase opportunities by both sides to lure the enemy out. In addition, less game time would be wasted by having the Insurgents hide and BluFor sit back on hills not doing anything because they get just as much Intel by popping people trying to get a look at them from 800m as they do from getting in close.

great idea!

[Meza82]

...the only problem is there are to many insurgents compared to the Blufor it would be great if we could side limit players to like 25 to insurgent and 39 to Blufor thus giving the Blufor one more squad over the insurgents which would be more realistic

strongly disagree. the blufor have armored vehicles with automatic HE cannons, an MBT (main battle tank) on Al Falluja, scoped weapons, medics...and so on. come on, y would you want to nerf the Iraqi insurgents or Taliban against the most powerful military in the history of the world?

[bad_nade]

Increase the time required for an unarmed kit to count as a Collaborator does for ROE to 5 minutes (ie after the kit actually disappears).

Kits stay on ground for 5 minutes because that's the maximum time a wounded soldier can wait for a medic and still being revived. It has nothing to do with ROE and it should stay that way. Being an unarmed combatant and valid target for anyone for 5 minutes is overkill.

Killing a regular insurgent gives no intel. When an insurgent is shot and drops the kit a BluFor who picks up the kit gets +1 intel. I seem to remember this being in the game at one point. What this would do is encourage clearing a group of insurgents and then checking the bodies for Intel instead of simply shooting them from far away.

I like this part, a lot. Would very effectively nerf coalition's tactic to collect intel by spawn camping main bases and force them actually search for their intel points. This would also require decreasing amount of intel required per cache as it would be impossible to search every kit.

[bad_nade]

I dislike the picking up kits to gain intel system. It makes you defenseless while you cycle the kit

You shouldn't have gone there alone at the first place.

[@bsurd]

great idea for me!

And more realistic btw.

[snooggums]

Kits stay on ground for 5 minutes because that's the maximum time a wounded soldier can wait for a medic and still being revived. It has nothing to do with ROE and it should stay that way. Being an unarmed combatant and valid target for anyone for 5 minutes is overkill.

I know the reason for the 5 minute limit.

The reason I proposed the 5 minute delay before ROE is because the kit will most likely have expired so they aren't hiding a kit to pick back up and therefore they will continue to be unarmed. Additionally, unless the BluFor see you drop the kit they won't know how long it has been so they won't be shooting you no matter how long it has been.

[bad_nade]

The reason I proposed the 5 minute delay before ROE is because the kit will most likely have expired so they aren't hiding a kit to pick back up and therefore they will continue to be unarmed.

Anyone can pick up any kit they see fit whenever they see fit, so counting on a timer doesn't guarantee anything. Minute is ok if it's combined with no-intel-on-kill change you proposed, but five minutes is way too long.

Additionally, unless the BluFor see you drop the kit they won't know how long it has been so they won't be shooting you no matter how long it has been.

It's only good thing that coalition does not shoot anyone they see. All unarmed enemies, be they civilians or not, should be dealt with shotgun anyway.

[Spearhead]

Just as a reminder: Arresting any insurgent gives you 10 IP. Of course it might be a bit risky trying to arrest armed insurgents right now.

Getting IP for picking up insurgent kits was easy to exploit. This was the main reason it has been removed and replaced with the 1 IP per killed insurgent rate.

As for encouraging alternative IP gathering approaches. I have been thinking about this topic recently and have a few ideas up my sleeve that need discussion among the team to see how they turn out.

[badmojo420]

You shouldn't have gone there alone at the first place.

Gone where? Why would you think I'm alone?

Even when 5 squad mates are around me, I don't have a tendency to pull out my field dressing and stand still for a few seconds. Especially when we recently killed an armed insurgent nearby. Why? Because in the time it takes to pull out my rifle and ready it for combat, I could be dead. Your squad mates aren't your personal security detail, they have their own lives to worry about.

Not sure if you remember, but the insurgents used to use the kit intel system as bait. They would sit and watch a dead body, waiting for the coalition to pick up their kit. It wasn't a huge problem, but it worked, and with the new 5min kit lives, i could see it becoming a bigger problem.

And what about the piles of kits around Taliban caches? Or the spawn kits around the insurgent caches. Would those also give intel? Do we have to defend our dropped kits too?

There are just too many exploits with a system like this.