Attack helicopter suggestion, radar AA.

[Qaiex]

I was thinking, at the moment attack helicopters tend to use a tactic that involves climbing to an absurd height and sitting there above the clouds shelling the ground like a C130.
Normal combat protocol for attack helicopters if I'm not mistaken is to stay under the radar and fly at low altitudes to avoid being picked up by AA radar towers and shot down.


So I was thinking we could add an AA radar site to each faction base (not insurgents, taliban or militia) that forces the attack helicopters to abandon these orbital bombardment tactics.
Maybe it has to be player controlled, maybe the commander uses it, maybe it's automatic, it doesn't matter. But it would force the attack helicopters to fly in a more realistic manner and hopefully also enable a more hands on approach, encouraging the attack helicopters to actually provide CAS for infantry and light vehicles when capping flags or searching an area for caches.

[Arnoldio]

The choppers in RL have auto targeting system for hellfires if im not mistaken so they can aquire lots of targets at once.

In PR though, you need a separate guy to laze, and its slow and painful, thats why you have to be up in the air, while in RL you can just pop up, unleash hell and gtfo

[Qaiex]

I would think that could be emulated, the gunner uses secondary fire to put a "laze" on the map and repeats as many times as necessary and then when he fires hellfire missiles, the helicopter shoots as many missiles as there are lazes and they all hit their marks.

[EddieRizla]

If you want it to be automatic you could just, edit the zerorotatedensity X or something in the init file of a map so when a helicopter reaches X it cant climb any higher. But thats a litte lame.
If they had a proper apache longbow system in the apaches you would be able to see little green boxes around each tank and fire a missile at each b4 they knew what hit them. But then it would just be like the heli rape you get in AiX, where anyone in a plane can see a ground vehicle as a litte green box.

[Potilas]

OP do have the point. Perhaps simply reduce guided missiles travel distance. Something like 700m max range for missiles?

[Dev1200]

a "radar" vehicle would be nice, then maybe AA can't lock onto your jet/heli or likes a long time to do so.


This would also make maps like muttrah less AA spammy and more AA-site locations instead of the whole map under AA lockdown.

This would also make the cobra effective. Unless they have a crappy team, cobra doesn't last long. it's flying tin can with the BTR's ensueing rape and destruction. It's basically only a infantry killer now.. =(

[Alex6714]

We achieved this in CA. Helicopters use terrain for cover because AA has a long range (almost 2km with a radar option up) while the helicopters can target vehicles on the move by pointing at them and locking (though you won´t see a box until locked) and have the ability to stay out of range of tanks and APCs while maintaining visual if they are careful.

This makes them behave much more realistically, forces teamwork between ground forces and AA and helicopters and spotter teams (AA is extremely deadly) and gives a realistic experience.


If the missile range was reduced now or the altitude it would severely nerf them even more when they don´t need it. I think you have flown very little time in them, not sure if you have operated a tank much, but any helicopter below 500m is basically insta death from tanks and APCs that don´t have much fear.

[Arnoldio]

Moar stuff from CA in PR would be appreciated...

[Qaiex]

I know tanks are a serious threat to attack helicopters at the moment, but if the helicopters were used in a more realistic manner they wouldn't be hovering around just waiting to get shot down but they would be on the move constantly, and then they wouldn't have to worry about tanks hitting them.

[Alex6714]

Unfortunately it can´t be done though, without an improvement in the targeting system and without being forced up the tanks barrel.

[Inca_Killa]

Yayyyy more nerf-bat for helicopters. Its already too hard to survive, almost everything and their grandma can take you out, and really its only due to luck or a VERY helpful team that you can ever HOPE to survive.

...
OR, You can fly high, avoiding being sniped by tanks(its very easy to kill an atk heli with tanks), avoid being hat sniped (more realism for you??), Getting hit by apc fire/APC TOW(they never see it coming) and I havn't even mentioned other atk helis/fixed wing or AA yet, the things they SHOULD be scared of.
Also, despite contrary belief, BVR fire takes lots of coordination between the spotter and his helicopter, and truthfully, can only happen with the spotter being in your squad. Otherwise you most likely won't kill anything. Secondly, Hellfires don't reach very far, so you have to go into the Oh-****-i'm-going-to-die zone.

Wait, are you going to say you should hit lazes? You should, but there's a catch. Say your sl lazes an AA, you go OK and you enter the area and dive on it, dropped flares as you go (because you have to be within 700m or so to even see the laze) and your dead. What? Apparently AA can zoom in so much that they don't even see flares, and then they proceed to AA-rape you. Yay, twenty minutes wasted to basically an exploit. Thats if you're not dead by all the other threats that exist.
PS: I forgot .50 cals, the biggest threat to helicopters to exist in PR today . AA has nothing on those noob cannons...!

[Qaiex]

I'm actually saying make the attack helicopters better.
As a pilot I think flying is really fun, but there is no such thing as flying attack helicopters, all you do is hover in the clouds try to keep steady as the gunner shells the ground.

And that is the opposite of fun.

[PuffNStuff]

Make it so that the targeting system has to lock on to ground targets (radar puts them on green boxes) then, like AA, it takes some time to lock. Of course, you could override the locking procedure to manual fire. Also, the laze would be insta-lock so that there is an incentive to use it as a pin pointing device.

[Alex6714]

I'm actually saying make the attack helicopters better.
As a pilot I think flying is really fun, but there is no such thing as flying attack helicopters, all you do is hover in the clouds try to keep steady as the gunner shells the ground.

And that is the opposite of fun.

I completely agree with you, while you may have the best intentions the suggestion in the OP would just make things alot worse.

[Zimmer]

I'm actually saying make the attack helicopters better.
As a pilot I think flying is really fun, but there is no such thing as flying attack helicopters, all you do is hover in the clouds try to keep steady as the gunner shells the ground.

And that is the opposite of fun.

On theo other hand is so easy taqking out a attack chopepr I mean I can do it with my hands tied to my back using my nose o direct the AA be it man pad or mobile AA kit.

I dont say that it shouldnt be the case, but right now the only way to be alive in most maps is the tactic that you are describing therefore I would like to see the targeting system to the attack helis like apache, cobra etc. to get a boost for their hellfire missiles locking after 1-2 seconds aiming regardless of laser targeting.
On the other hand I have always meant that an attack heli should gtfo when its not called upon, and only get into battle when it called upon by either a CAS guy or a squad.

[McBumLuv]

Step 1: Increase View Distance and create more optimized LODs (on par with the ones of flight sims basically) for maps with potential performance drawbacks
Step 1: Apply changes to said helicopters so that they may use their full arsenal to a more realistic combat efficiency.
Step 1: Implement OP's Suggestion.
Step 1: Drastically increase AA's lethality to open targets, cutting flare effectiveness, and further forcing map-of-the-earth tactics near natural cover (only to those that wish to survive obviously).

Take it or leave it, there is no in between. Helicopters will never be anything more than a ridiculous waste of tickets, manpower and efficiency without it, and unless all the "first" steps are taken at the same time you'll get an even further ridiculous mishmash.

Attack Helicopters are useless atm (ESPECIALLY on Silent Eagle, where the fog colour/distance make engagements against ground targets and those against an obvious black shape in the sky very onesided), and until they get some loving all around, they'll continue that way.

[Sidewinder Zulu]

As it is, attack helicopters are waaayyyy to dependant on ground forces to laze targets for them.
In real life, that' usually how it works, but in PR infantry don't really care about giving attack helos targets because they have other things to worry about.

A system that allows a gunner to quickly and easily target a tank or armored vehicle in the open would be the best solution, IMO.
AA is already ridiculously lethal against helicopters, but when an APC and an Apache go head to head and the APC usually wins, then there's a problem.

The other day, I was in some AA on Kashan when an Apache fired a Hellfire at me, it missed, landed about 50 feet from the vehicle, did some damage, but not that much.
I then turned around and killed the hovering Apache with a single missile, which completely avoided the flares and went right into the helicopter.
Kinda dumb that those things are possible, it feels very arcadey. ??:

The way I think about it, if the AA sees the Apache first, then the AA wins, and if the Apache sees the AA first, it wins. Right now the AA has the upper hand from the beginning.

[chrisweb89]

The way I think about it, if the AA sees the Apache first, then the AA wins, and if the Apache sees the AA first, it wins. Right now the AA has the upper hand from the beginning.

And if the attack helo misses its first shot which is easy to do because manual guiding is tricky without a perfect hover which is asking to get killed, then the aa tunrs around and shoots 4 missles into the attack choppers face before the second hellfire reaches the ground.

I agree with the suggestions that you should be able to lock onto an invisible lase that would be on all vehicles if you hold the reticule within 5 degrees of it. I really don't see what the point of reducing the hellfire range so that it is less than a tank's cannon which irl is the complete opposite.

[Hunt3r]

And if the attack helo misses its first shot which is easy to do because manual guiding is tricky without a perfect hover which is asking to get killed, then the aa tunrs around and shoots 4 missles into the attack choppers face before the second hellfire reaches the ground.

I agree with the suggestions that you should be able to lock onto an invisible lase that would be on all vehicles if you hold the reticule within 5 degrees of it. I really don't see what the point of reducing the hellfire range so that it is less than a tank's cannon which irl is the complete opposite.

This smacks of weapons that would unbalance a lot of maps...

[Nemus]

An Apache IRL has a radar which helps to find and aquire targets.
But when activated it can be detected by AAs and give away its position.
So the helicopter approaches with stealth,makes a quick scan, aquire targets and fire.

Why not add something similar?
The attack helicopter can find and autolock targets (no need a radar, the "green box" method its fine) but when this feature is activated then the helicopter can be spoted by AA from greater distance than normal.

So the pilot is still depended from ground troops but only for enemy's position.
Flying without intel and searching targets will be a clear suicide.

Not very realistic in term of weapons but realistic enough in term of tactics.