LAV-25 Suggestions

[USMCMIDN]

I searched this found nothing so if it is a re-run my apologies...

Can we do something about the survivability? ? ? I was on Fallujah and took 1 RPG to the Hull (which is supposed to be the strongest part of the vehicle) and it blew up and killed everyone in it without the little warning siren...

I know the LAV25A2 has been put to use and it incorporates add on upgraded armor that can withstand RPG hits. It serves as crew protection and passenger protection.

Also what is with the Machine gun on it. (secondary) IRL is it really that bad IDK im asking. If not coul dwe fix that?

[Rissien]

The coax problem is a known issue and will be fixed next patch/release.

[Rudd]

Yeah it was pretty funny that round I'm not entirely sure what got that APC, but it was me who placed the mine under the northern APC of your formation

[Drunkenup]

The LAV-25 is rated to take in 7.62x51mm Ball, but without the A2's Spall liners. But even then I don't think its going to take as much damage as say, a BMP, or Bradley if that's what you're asking for. BUT, yes, I think it should take in a 40mm RPG-7 rocket to most parts of itself, (most damage being taken at the rear doors) and still move, not tracked. Its not like its going to take multiple RPG's and keep moving. It'll penetrate eventually. APC were not meant to stay so close to the enemy, rather fill yourself up, and when engaged, stop at a reasonable distance where your autocannon has the advantage against their AT weapons. Plus the LAV-25 was never meant to take in heavy hits, it was designed to transport troops, stay with them for a while, go back, the AAVP7A1's job is to ferry troops and to stick with them.

[USMCMIDN]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Rudd;1312865']Yeah it was pretty funny that round I'm not entirely sure what got that APC, but it was me who placed the mine under the northern APC of your formation[/quote]

Damn you, it was you...I was so mad you should of heard the whole squad in the back of it they were pissed as well lol. But good job. And that was the SLs APC a RPG got mine.

[quote="Drunkenup""]The LAV-25 is rated to take in 7.62x51mm Ball, but without the A2's Spall liners. But even then I don't think its going to take as much damage as say, a BMP, or Bradley if that's what you're asking for. BUT, yes, I think it should take in a 40mm RPG-7 rocket to most parts of itself, (most damage being taken at the rear doors) and still move, not tracked. Its not like its going to take multiple RPG's and keep moving. It'll penetrate eventually. APC were not meant to stay so close to the enemy, rather fill yourself up, and when engaged, stop at a reasonable distance where your autocannon has the advantage against their AT weapons. Plus the LAV-25 was never meant to take in heavy hits, it was designed to transport troops, stay with them for a while, go back, the AAVP7A1's job is to ferry troops and to stick with them.[/quote]

And the LAV-25A2 is rated to stop AP 14.5mm all around. And it has spall liners to protect crew and passengers from RPGs and other threats of this nature.And if thats not all It will stop 30mm AP if directly shot at the hull (so if a 30mm AP round is shot at it and it hits the front of the vehicle it will simply bounce off). IMO it is just as lethal as the M2/M3 but w/o the TOW lol. The USMC made it so the upgrades make it just as deadly as its younger brother the LAV-III if not more deadly because of the new weapons systems it has... So IRL it can take damage (we learned from Iraq that we need LAVs to take heavy hits so we upgraded them with SLEP). Read my source it is pretty cool.

Army Guide - LAV-25 Coyote, Reconnaissance Vehicle USArmy's variant but I would imagine the upgraded armor is the same.

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... e3672.aspx Talks about how the EFV will have the same armor as the LAV25A2 (14.5mm AP resistant)

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Spending+ ... 0146956688 USMC Version

[Hunt3r]

The question is whether the LAV-25 can take an RPG and limp back to base for repairs.

[wood_badger]

Not on subject with OP, but I think the LAV accelerates way too fast. Any one have the Real Steel performances specs for that??

[Hotrod525]

Not on subject with OP, but I think the LAV accelerates way too fast. Any one have the Real Steel performances specs for that??

You might be surprise I reach 115 km/h with one of those baby =D Its like a big cady

[wood_badger]

You might be surprise I reach 115 km/h with one of those baby =D Its like a big cady

I know that's her top gear runout speed, but how long does it take to reach that speed when loaded for combat? Well 115km/h = 75mph right, I thought top speed was 60mph?? I know you know your stuff hotrod.

What's her 0-60 time?
edit add : Acceleration 0-20mph, < 10 sec. according to:
http://www.onr.navy.mil/~/media/Files/F ... ckage.ashx

I wish there was a "Top Gear" type show for military vehicles.

Does the Canadian version use the same 275hp Detroit two-stroke??

[Shredhead99]

I'm playing this for a while now, and I've never seen an LAV going down instantly by an RPG hit on the hull. Maybe it was a lucky shot between the wheels, where there is a known weak spot, but even then the crew would have had time to get out.
My bets are, you had a noob in your team who made the insurgents a nice little gift called SRAW. Or can you divert incoming RPG rounds from a HAT round?

[Drunkenup]

Not on subject with OP, but I think the LAV accelerates way too fast. Any one have the Real Steel performances specs for that??

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And that was just when he was banking the LAV. Imagine how fast you can go when you take in consideration a 12 Ton APC can turn that fast.

If all is true, and it can really take in RPGs, then I do think it should take at least one before tracking. Do all agree?

[wood_badger]

The General Dynamics (LAV25 developer) website only says armor protection for 7.62NATO Ball @ 0/0m.

[wood_badger]

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And that was just when he was banking the LAV. Imagine how fast you can go when you take in consideration a 12 Ton APC can turn that fast.

If all is true, and it can really take in RPGs, then I do think it should take at least one before tracking. Do all agree?

Cool vid, but I'm not talking about top speed, I'm talking about Acceleration from dead stop.

edit: it's really hard to find detail info on the lav-25

I just found this dated 04/05/2010, talks about armor upgrades.
This is the company produced the LAV armor upgrades, http://www.armateconline.com/company-profile/index.html.

Marine Corps Transitions the Light Armored Vehicle
- LAV -
Light Armored Vehicle Program Management Office

The Marine Corps’ Light Armored Vehicle (LAV) has been in service for more than 24 years with the possibility of continued viable service for many more. The Program Management Office LAV (PM LAV), which now reports to the Program Executive Officer for Land Systems, is a work force of six Marines and more than 80 civilian employees.



Working in conjunction with a myriad of Marine Corps agencies, the team maintains the LAV’s current readiness status while at the same time incorporating capabilities for facing future challenges. They manage ongoing efforts to provide enhanced capabilities and detailed planning for future advances. This significant responsibility is even more critical today as U.S. forces continue to fight the long war on terrorism.



“The LAV program represents a true success for the Corps,” said Col. Mike Micucci, LAV program manager. “This platform provides great capability and operational flexibility to the employing commander.”



There are more than 700 LAVs in the Marine Corps inventory today, fielded in one of seven different configurations. They include the LAV-25, the cornerstone of the fleet armed with an M242 25mm chain gun; LAV-Antitank, equipped with the Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile system; LAV-Command and Control (C2), outfitted with a robust communications suite; LAV-Logistics vehicle, providing valuable logistics and maintenance capacity; LAV-Mortar 81mm Mortar carrier; LAV-Recovery vehicle; and LAV-Mobile Electronic Warfare Support System.



According to program officials, the LAV’s eight-wheeled configuration can maintain highway speeds in excess of 60 mph and can climb 60 percent grades and traverse 30 percent side slopes. It accelerates from 0 to 20 mph in less than 10 seconds and negotiates 18-inch vertical steps. It has a cruising range of more than 400 miles and provides more than 14 inches of ground clearance.



“The LAV is a remarkably fast and agile weapons system,” Micucci said. “And although it’s not as capable a swimmer as the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle, it can ford small rivers and swim non-surf bodies of water at speeds of up to 6.5 mph.”



The LAV-25 has a two-man turret, which provides ballistic protection equivalent to the base chassis. The vehicle provides the vehicle commander and gunner with full 360-degree visibility in the closed hatch mode via periscopes. The primary armament is the electrically powered M242 25mm automatic chain gun, the same as on the M2/M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicle, which can fire single shot, 100 or 200 rounds per minute.



LAVs reside in the Marine Division’s Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalions and their mission employment centers on providing reconnaissance, security, and offensive and defensive operations in a fluid combat environment. They continue to be used in current Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) rotations.



“Their value is grounded in their inherent mobility and the ready capability of calling in supporting fires from the Marine Air Ground Task Force via the LAV-C2 vehicle,” the LAV program manager stated. “LAVs have proven their worth on numerous occasions, not to mention traversing more than 600 miles inland from Kuwait to Tikrit during OIF I.”



The PM LAV team works hard to ensure the best LAV capability is fielded to the Marine Corps. The team focuses on survivability and capability improvements with tradeoffs to vehicle weight, mobility, transportability and the ability to swim. To reflect the improved significant survivability and capability enhancements occurring today, the vehicle is being renamed as the LAV-A2. Among many improvements, the new LAV will be receiving the Improved Thermal Sight System (ITSS). ITSS is currently undergoing product verification testing and scheduled for fielding during the third quarter this fiscal year. The ITSS provides the gunner and commander with thermal images, an eye-safe laser range finder, a fire-control solution and far-target location target grid information

.



“It is designed to improved lethality, hit probability and survivability,” Micucci added. “It gives you the ability to see the threat before it sees you.”



LAV-A2 is also receiving a three-kit armor system, which provides the LAV with additional survivability against improvised explosive devices (IED) and direct-fire kinetic energy weapons.



“The war in Iraq has demonstrated that IEDs will remain a weapon of choice by our adversaries now and in the future,” the program manager said. “But as we add needed armor protection, there can be associated negative effects to the vehicle’s transportability, mobility and its ability to swim. These are the main reasons why we must continue to research and develop armors that offer better protection at a lighter weight and less cost.”



According to program officials, ceramic armors of silicon and boron carbide comprise today’s lightweight armors, “but we need to get even lighter and stronger.” They see potential solutions in the use of titanium and aluminum, which can provide up to 40 percent weight savings when compared to traditional rolled homogenous armor.



“When combined with other materials, this is significant as we rethink how to design and construct the LAV’s hull, suspension and turret,” Micucci said. “We also need to explore active protection systems that minimize their potential impact on the LAV scouts and vehicle crew.”



Additional upgrades PM LAV plans to explore include a universal weapons mount and a variety of improved automotive initiatives and technologies.



“Upgrades such as the LAV-A2 and the LAV-C2, along with a variety of RAM [Rapid Acquisition Modifications] initiatives, are ensuring we field the best capability today, while future enhancements such as lightweight armors, active protective systems and embedded platform logistics will increase our combat effectiveness in the future,” Micucci concluded.



Adapting with changing environments to maintain relevance is a hallmark of the Marine Corps and clearly evident in the LAV program. The LAV entered the Marine Corps in 1983 with a service life expectation of 2005. The significant Service Life Extension Program initiated in the late 1990s extended its life to 2015. Current and future upgrades will likely keep the LAV in the inventory to 2025 and beyond. Even though the LAV is considerably older then most of the crew and scouts who operate it today, it remains among the most versatile and capable platforms in the Marine Corps’ arsenal.

[USMCMIDN]

The General Dynamics (LAV25 developer) website only says armor protection for 7.62NATO Ball @ 0/0m.

that is w.o the armor upgrades I believe. Look at the sources I provided b4 they explain the new armor upgrades.

When they roll off of the assembly lines, the basic configuration they do not have the armor but when the package is added onto the LAV it can resist 14.5mm AP rounds.

It is similar with the AAV except the LAV add on armor is relatively full scale and the AAV upgraded armor is not, because it is old and it rusts... but that is another story.

[wood_badger]

that is w.o the armor upgrades I believe.

Correct, from what I'm understanding right now is that the LAV-25 hadn't recieve any armor upgrades in life cycle until the LAV A2 Program begin a few years ago, even so there are not very many of the up-armor LAV A2s in service yet, The LAV A2 can withstand a RPG round, as far as I can find no other version of LAV-25 can

[USMCMIDN]

Correct, from what I'm understanding right now is that the LAV-25 hadn't recieve any armor upgrades in life cycle until the LAV A2 Program begin a few years ago, even so there are not very many of the up-armor LAV A2s in service yet, The LAV A2 can withstand a RPG round, as far as I can find no other version of LAV-25 can

o you may be right I was under the impression the USMC upgraded all their LAVs already but now im not so sure since you said that... i can ask around my unit because there was nothing online that said for sure or not. We have an armor officer so ill get bak to u

EDIT*

Just looked and the A2 program was supposed to be fully implemented late 2007. So I would imagine that all the USMC LAV have the A2 upgrades by now. So in conclusion I would imagine they all now have armor that will stop 30mm AP rounds if hit directly at the hull, and all around 14.5mm AP protection.

"To reflect the improved significant survivability and capability enhancements occurring today, the LAV is being renamed as the LAV-A2. The LAV-A2 project involved developing and installing an internal and external ballistic protection upgrade package for the Light Armored Vehicles, an automatic fire suppression system for the interior of the vehicle and a Generation II suspension upgrade to support the added weight of the new armor. The suspension upgrade includes new struts/steering knuckles, torsion bars, shocks and mounts and drive shaft. The three-kit armor system provides the LAV with additional survivability against improvised explosive devices (IED) and direct-fire kinetic energy weapons.

LAV-A2 includes the AN/PAS-13 Improved Thermal Sight System (ITSS) developed by Raytheon of McKinney, TX, scheduled for fielding by the end of 2007. The ITSS provides the gunner and commander with thermal images, an eye-safe laser range finder, a fire-control solution and far-target location target grid information."

Also it does not say it protects against 30mm AP (turret) but I am assuming with the Upgrades it would be similar if not the same as the LAV-III which does protect against 30mm AP (if hit on the turret).


http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_lav.php3

[Kim Jong ill]

Well everything in that post suggests that the up armour only adds protection against direct fire kinetic energy weapons (Which is what the 14.5mm and 30mm AP rounds are). It says nothing about increased survivability against EFP HEAT warheads, which are a whole other story.

[USMCMIDN]

Well everything in that post suggests that the up armour only adds protection against direct fire kinetic energy weapons (Which is what the 14.5mm and 30mm AP rounds are). It says nothing about increased survivability against EFP HEAT warheads, which are a whole other story.

The spall liner protects against RPGs and the up armor also

[Tannhauser]

My bets are, you had a noob in your team who made the insurgents a nice little gift called SRAW. Or can you divert incoming RPG rounds from a HAT round?

Most probably that it was a SRAW.

I've never seen an LAV25 get one-shotted by RPG or any LAT in fact. And believe me, RPGs hitting LAVs is a common sight.

[DankE_SPB]

I've never seen an LAV25 get one-shotted by RPG

i witnessed it once, as a LAV gunner, Fallujah, about 300-400m distance, hit into front armor-> instakill without even critical/fire damage
and yes, its definitely been RPG

but as you said, usually you dont even lose mobility or lock turret, only smoke at back, so lets leave those rare occasions to bad luck hehe