SAW kits make DMR and sniper rifle's redundent

[Trooper909]

As the title says but is mainly an issue with blufor as opfor SAW kits have alot less accuracy so is not such a big problem and SAW's feel true to the role on opfor teams.

The evidence is in any given game SAW kits up high acting like sniper's(because thay can) as the thing is 100% accurate when settled.Also look at the kill count of any dedicated SAW gunner its silly it can get up to 50+ kills in the right hands more than even tanks and APC's witch I think is wrong.

Sniper pro's vs a SAW:No tracer's and that's it as I can one shot most thing's with a SAW on all but the most large maps and extreme ranges.

DMR pro's vs a SAW:Cant really think of any as the SAW is more accurate against things a DMR should be engaging I.E medium range.

SAW in its true role as a supression tool is pointless why supress when I can headshot every member of the sqaud from 500m away?

As we are in the habbett of forceing player's into to the right roles sacrificing realism in many cases how about making the SAW alot less accurate?

For the love of god dont make other weapons more accurate to compensate like this version did.

[Alucard]

i'd have to agree and disagree at the same time the saw is a more effective role then the DMR however you do not fix this by nurfing the saw because the SAW is that accurate in real life i've fired one at a gun range and i've fired a m14 at a gun range and the saw is not as accurate at 500-700M's thats for the DMR so how do we fix this the DMR needs to have an accuracy upgrade and the saw needs to stay as is

[boilerrat]

Totally agree, I'm to the point where I won't take sniper / DMR anymore because of how easy it is to get killed by anyone else.

[BroCop]

Sniper isnt some 1337 Tom Berenger impersionator.


DMR on the other hand...well you do have a valid point now that the LMGs are quite accurate

[Scared_420]

Sniper isnt some 1337 Tom Berenger impersionator.

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[richyrich55]

*habit

I agree, Trooper. It's especially easy with the Negev having single shot capabilities.

[Rudd]

I find that DMRs SAWs etc are fine against SAWs.

DMRs especially, I just don't like DMRs in my squad unless it has an automatic capability for close quarters.

if a saw is firing at a sniper, what do you think the sniper does IRL? he doesn't stand up, quickly turn around with perfect robotic movements following it up with a boom headshot. There are BULLETS coming towards him, he's gonna get down, relocate and then take out the saw or get another element to do it.

same for DMRs, DMRs are capable of an accuracy that SAWs are not, they just has to wait, they can't pump rounds downrange like the saw can and expect to win, its more like an especially accurate rifleman...which is what its supposed to be right? Though the DMR could do with a slightly shorter settle time.

[Trooper909]

DMRs are capable of an accuracy that SAWs are not, they just has to wait, they can't pump rounds downrange like the saw can and expect to win, its more like an especially accurate rifleman...which is what its supposed to be right? Though the DMR could do with a slightly shorter settle time.

No offence intended but in alot of your posts I often wonder how regular you actuly play the game I play every night after work personaly for years now.
I mean your theory about how a DMR should work are spot on but in game belive me its not that way at all and thats what im getting at with the OP.

For example if you felt like getting a high accuracy high threat to enemy lives kit in your squad what would you ask a squad member to take?as a dedicated infantry grunt in this game I have never been asked to take DMR ever but every SQ needs a SAW no?

And im perfectly aware what a snipers role is IE mostly spoting but snipers other role is also killing from ranges other weapons just cant hit them but a SAW can pwn a sniper much faster than a sniper can kill a SAW I actuly never go sniper myself as i know the kit is useless and is a dinosor of vanilla but even so I still thing it should be much more feared than it is now.

[Rudd]

No offence intended but in alot of your posts I often wonder how regular you actuly play the game I play every night after work personaly for years now.

no offense taken, I dont play as often as I'd like for various reasons as well as I've got several projects for the team on the go, however I think per week I get an average of around 10hrs playtime, usually at night since I tend to play with teh Americans, and usually on TG or whatever server is active on mumble that night.

For example if you felt like getting a high accuracy high threat to enemy lives kit in your squad what would ask a squad member to take?as a dedicated infantry grunt in this game I have never been asked to take DMR ever but every SQ needs a SAW no?

every squad needs a SAW yes, the DMR isn't always appropriate. E.g. I wouldn't want to take a DMR into jabal al burj, but I'd want it if my squad was defending south bridge.
every gun is high threat to enemy lives, everything has is place, I wouldn't hammer a screw and and I would use a screwdriver to hammer a nail (unless I really couldn't find my hammer)

[anglomanii]

can i just add, that if (IMO) it's done right you should never find out where a sniper or in some circumstances a DMR position is, and hence never be able to return fire. ok so some of this is stuffed by the fact the BF2 game engine means you cant hide well at range. (this is just my observation) but i think if you follow a few simple rules most of the time a sniper or DMR should be very hard to locate and destroy.

thats just my opinion though.

[Trooper909]

usually at night since I tend to play with teh Americans, and usually on TG or whatever server is active on mumble that night.

Heh also a nightime englishman playing with the yankie's mostly

every squad needs a SAW yes, the DMR isn't always appropriate. E.g. I wouldn't want to take a DMR into jabal al burj, but I'd want it if my squad was defending south bridge.
every gun is high threat to enemy lives, everything has is place, I wouldn't hammer a screw and and I would use a screwdriver to hammer a nail (unless I really couldn't find my hammer)[/QUOTE]

Valied points you make but my view on the matter still stands as i cant think of what a DMR can do that a SAW cant do better the SAW is the swiss army knife of weapons currently. I think this is wrong maybe not from real life perspective as im no solder and have no clue how it performs IRL but in a game play sense.

[Tim270]

I personally gained a lot more enjoyment from the AR's when they were not spawn-able/optics for the simple reason that you had to use more teamwork to operate them effectively. You had to go on both a combination of SL markers and putting fire down on targets squad members are calling out to suppress, not snipe.

With that said, I think the balance has worked out with AR optics, it is however the question of how useful the DMR is that is the issue. My 2c are that deployed needs to a settle a little faster, so it can be incorporated into a squad, rather than people sitting in a hill with it.

[Trooper909]

Dubble post could use this being deleted ops:

[Trooper909]

can i just add, that if (IMO) it's done right you should never find out where a sniper or in some circumstances a DMR position is, and hence never be able to return fire. ok so some of this is stuffed by the fact the BF2 game engine means you cant hide well at range. (this is just my observation) but i think if you follow a few simple rules most of the time a sniper or DMR should be very hard to locate and destroy.

thats just my opinion though.

100% right about sniper but DMR is a squad level accurate medium to long range weapon and should never be away form his squad like a sniper would.

[Dev1200]

Light machine guns are the only primary weapons in PR without deviation+ per shot. I don't understand what makes them different from assault rifles, besides usually having a high rate of fire, being heavier, and having more ammo per magazine. Wouldn't it be logical to have a HIGH deviation+ per shot, similar to assault rifles? This way, realistically, you would want to encourage players to fire in bursts, instead of just spraying madly.


Also, Marksmen should be used like squad-level snipers. Long range accurate fire.
LMG should be used for suppression, and grouped targets.

[Rudd]

Light machine guns are the only primary weapons in PR without deviation+ per shot.

incorrect, in the previous version you would be pretty much correct. However since .9 the LMG has had significant deviation penalties per shot, meaning that the first squirt of bullets is spot on if you've waited long enough, but the next squirt is no where near spot on, I remember remarking on this during beta testing with great happiness.

[Riflewizard]

Yeah. LMG's are too accurate. I think they need more recoil. I also think that the scopes give them a huge advantage over every other gun (although it's always fun to own people trying to use scopes in cqb) in terms of effectiveness at range. They don't really supress as much as hit you 10 times in the torso in one burst.
I would favor giving them iron sights only or nerfing them somehow. They are just ridiculously powerful and accurate in this game.

[dtacs]

incorrect, in the previous version you would be pretty much correct. However since .9 the LMG has had significant deviation penalties per shot, meaning that the first squirt of bullets is spot on if you've waited long enough, but the next squirt is no where near spot on, I remember remarking on this during beta testing with great happiness.

The ROF defeats the purpose of the deviation anyway. Often I can fire on a guy with a SAW, hit him, and have him spin around 180 degrees, stand up, and hip fire and kill me.

Essentially, you have so many bullets you don't have to worry about how much you're moving.

[aaRoth]

Light machine guns are the only primary weapons in PR without deviation+ per shot. I don't understand what makes them different from assault rifles, besides usually having a high rate of fire, being heavier, and having more ammo per magazine. Wouldn't it be logical to have a HIGH deviation+ per shot, similar to assault rifles? This way, realistically, you would want to encourage players to fire in bursts, instead of just spraying madly.


Also, Marksmen should be used like squad-level snipers. Long range accurate fire.
LMG should be used for suppression, and grouped targets.

The thing is, try using a light machine gun while walking (iron sighted moving), its impossible. The AR is only good when you're still and are either prone or crouched. In CQB its useless.

On topic, if you're a good sniper, you should never be spotted and should only take out high priority targets such as squad leaders or enemies about to fire on the squad you're covering. In reality, snipers are just used as a recon tool although it would be quite boring just to watch in PR

[Trooper909]

The thing is, try using a light machine gun while walking (iron sighted moving), its impossible. The AR is only good when you're still and are either prone or crouched. In CQB its useless.

On topic, if you're a good sniper, you should never be spotted and should only take out high priority targets such as squad leaders or enemies about to fire on the squad you're covering. In reality, snipers are just used as a recon tool although it would be quite boring just to watch in PR

The thing is I can snipe much better with the saw one fast click =1 shot one kill really try it. With the IDF negev I become a full blown sinper to stop the annoying tracers just shoot the floor next to you every 5th shot.

Also SAW bad at CQC? I dont follow.Just hold left mouse butten and let the 200 round mag do the rest. Ak's and G3 have alot more kick from the hip than the any blufor SAW